Tanks = Own or Rent??

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I have the new Miller 211 and want to set it up (still pack in shipping box) and start using it now that the shop is mostly done.Is it better to Buy/own your tanks tanks or rent them?Suggestions for the basic gas mixture for general building using standard CR steel/angle iron etc?I have to get everything from Reno, 200 mile round trip for all supplies etc, so I need to be prepared.Tia,Don
Reply:If your in it for the long haul, buy the largest cylinders you can manage. Your refills will be cheaper with larger bottles.As for gas type, straight CO2 will give you the most bang for your buck for mild steel, other mixes may give you less spatter.Make sure the wire you buy is designed to run straight CO2.You can also run Fluxcore wire with no gas as an option.Have fun."Never trust anything you read on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
Reply:Lease payments add up. I leased one cylinder for three years, then wised up and haunted Craigslist.I now have many argon. mixed gas, CO2, nitrogen and OA cylinders and no lease payments. Overhead is BAD. Inexpensive accumulation of valuable goods is nice.Combining the two is Very Nice.I keep an eye out for more, get them cheap and promptly exchange them so my collection has current hydro dates. Keep your purchase price low and you can always sell 'em off down the road for a profit.I have to get everything from Reno, 200 mile round trip for all supplies etc, so I need to be prepared.
Reply:nvreloader,The most common (and most versatile) gas for your welder is what's referred to as C25 which is 75%Argon/25%CO2.CO2, while, cheaper yields more spatter, and is not as good for use on thinner material such as sheet metal, auto body work, etc.Considering your travel factor, you want as large a bottle as possible.  You'll also find that with the larger bottles, your cost/cu. ft. of gas is much less.  With that said, many if not most local welding supply (LWS) will not fill an owner bottle of greater than 125 cu. ft.  If that's the case in your area, I'd suggest leasing the larger bottle as the best option.Actually, how long a bottle of a given size will last is pretty easy to determine.  Say you're flowing your gas at 15 CFH and you're using an 80 CF bottle.  80/15 = 5.33 hours of welding time.  It's not unreasonable to get involved in a weekend project that will involve that much welding.With all that said, with your distance to the LWS, I'd recommend leasing a 330 CF cylinder of C25 and buying an 80 CF cylinder as your "backup".  You'll find 80's available on e-bay for in the $150 range (empty).  Your LWS is going to charge from $25-$50 to fill that cylinder.Another option for a spare/backup bottle is to keep your eyes out for a used 20# CO2 beverage cylinder.  This 20# cylinder (because the CO2 is stored as a liquid) will give you an equivalent arc time as a 160 CF C25 high pressure cylinder.  You'll need an adapter for the cylinder to allow it to be used on the 580 connector on your flowgauge.  Your LWS will most likely fill/exchange that cylinder for between $25-$40.I own upwards of a dozen cylinders ranging from 60 CF to 330 CF.  However, my high use large cylinders (330 CF) (100% Argon used for tig and mixing gases) are leased cylinders.  My LWS does not fill on site, so I simply "exchange" my leased cylinders.  My "owner" large bottles are dropped off and sent out for filling.  That means a 1-2 week wait between fills.  You've got to have backups in this case.Your best bet is to arm yourself with information.  Find out what you can buy (say an 80 CF cylinder) for on e-bay.  Have this information with you when you visit the LWS.  If he's close in price, buy the bottle from them.  Either way, most gas suppliers will "exchange" your smaller cylinder.Compressed gas does not go bad in the cylinder.  Larger bottles mean less trips to the LWS and a cheaper cost per CF.Hope this makes sense.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Call potential supplier or suppliers for sizes and  prices . Put together a package deal for optimum  savings on tanks and accessories.
Reply:I was in El Campo,Texas, Tractor Supply had all the welding tanks 75%off  I picked up several of the 75/25  regular price 289.00 paid 80.00 each full.The manager was telling me that there were several stores that were no longer selling gas.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIAnother option for a spare/backup bottle is to keep your eyes out for a used 20# CO2 beverage cylinder.  This 20# cylinder (because the CO2 is stored as a liquid) will give you an equivalent arc time as a 160 CF C25 high pressure cylinder.  You'll need an adapter for the cylinder to allow it to be used on the 580 connector on your flowgauge.  Your LWS will most likely fill/exchange that cylinder for between $25-$40.
Reply:I would continue to search for a closer supplier.  Call me crazy but I find it kinda hard to believe you have to travel that far to get/fill a tank.How hard have you searched?  Have you tried talking to local shops?  Welding, muffler, regular auto shops, should all have some type of welding equipment.If you are correct, it's hard to say.  A bigger bottle will last longer.I bought a 125, it will pay off in 4 years, plan on keeping my welder well beyond that, so figure it's worth it.  Probaby going to buy another also.  Really dosen't take to long to empty.If you can get local, buying isn't a bad option, if not, then renting may be worthwhile.
Reply:Originally Posted by kcb37I would continue to search for a closer supplier.  Call me crazy but I find it kinda hard to believe you have to travel that far to get/fill a tank.How hard have you searched?  Have you tried talking to local shops?  Welding, muffler, regular auto shops, should all have some type of welding equipment.If you are correct, it's hard to say.  A bigger bottle will last longer.I bought a 125, it will pay off in 4 years, plan on keeping my welder well beyond that, so figure it's worth it.  Probaby going to buy another also.  Really dosen't take to long to empty.If you can get local, buying isn't a bad option, if not, then renting may be worthwhile.
Reply:Another option for a spare/backup bottle is to keep your eyes out for a used 20# CO2 beverage cylinder. This 20# cylinder (because the CO2 is stored as a liquid) will give you an equivalent arc time as a 160 CF C25 high pressure cylinder. You'll need an adapter for the cylinder to allow it to be used on the 580 connector on your flowgauge. Your LWS will most likely fill/exchange that cylinder for between $25-$40.
Reply:Originally Posted by k45Do you use the same gauge and pressure regulator for CO2 as you use for 25/75?Ken
Reply:I think it depends on the suppler,I have leased and in theory own a few, (bought off of swap shop), even tho they were actually a leased bottle, one company leases one the bottle for XXX for 20 years, but the problem is they exchange the tanks, so you no longer have the tank you leased, but they then make you responsible for that tank, and about 3 years  ago they came back on me and either wanted the tank returned or pay for it again, the other company basically leases you the tank and basically that is a life time lease (your just paying for the tank, I have had there tanks for over 20 years and they have never come back on me for more money,  (they exchange tanks as well, and will buy back or up grade  (they charge you the "20 year lease" price and you use for as long as you need it, if you return it they refund you the lease price at that time,  they exchange tanks as well,I have heard that on both of these companies if you bring in a customer owned tank they will fill it but you have to wait for them to fill it that may take a week or more,  (or they may trade you for there tanks)  but then your giving them a NEW tank for at times a very used tank),so find out what your and who your dealing with,  and there policies,Last edited by Farmerboy; 05-23-2012 at 10:51 AM.
Reply:Buy own tank, swap on refill. But do you have a supplier that regularly delivers in you area, maybe consult with others in your situation and find a supplier that will deliver if enough demand.. Why burn your gas and time?"Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400