First Attempt at Stainless Tig

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Gents,I have had the New Dynasty 200dx for a couple of weeks and have been practicing on mild steel and aluminum.Today I decided it was time to do a little "pretty work" on some stainless steel.I had a SS rod holder off a boat I used to have that wasn't put together very well in the begining.I set the peak amps at 60 and ground a 2%  Thorium 1/16" and made my first fillet weld.I then tried a couple fusion welds (no filler) and it went a little better.  (I must have had the peak ampres a little hot as I noticed some undercutting on the vertical piece.(boy can I tell it is going to take some practice to do this when out of position)Please feel free to critique my first attempt so I can learn from you all. The first photo shows the Rod holder, with my 2 fusion welds Left to right, the second the fusion welds close up, and the last one the fillet weld attempt with 1/16" filler 308LThanks again for the great instruction!Tim Attached ImagesA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Originally Posted by [email protected] then tried a couple fusion welds (no filler) and it went a little better.  (I must have had the peak ampres a little hot as I noticed some undercutting on the vertical piece.
Reply:Engloid,Thanks, I kinda figured that as hey kinda hard to make metal by melting it.  I wish I could tell you the thickness of the metal, about a 1/16", I was looking at some other tig welds and it looked like there was very little depth to the fillet? Is there a rule of thumb for height/width for each gauge?  I have only 1/16" filler rod, is that what I should be using?Thanks,TimPS: still hoping I will be able to get into the CC class in a couple of weeks (should get a lot of these questions asked) just can't wait around with the new Dynasty not humming!A rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:My advice is to ditch the 1/16" tungsten...throw it in the garbage.  Others here will disagree, but as I've said before, I've welded down to .006" stainless with 3/32" tungsten, and it wasn't any problem.  1/16" filler is fine for what you're doing.  You may want to search for some terms and stuff on the net, such as "Fillet weld measurement" and "Fillet gauge."  A fillet weld is not measured by its width.  It is measured by its leg length and throat measurement.The rule of thumb is that if the thinner of two pieces being welded is 1/16" thick, then you put on a 1/16" fillet weld.  A lot of marine stuff is welded without filler, since it may not have to handle a lot of stress.  That said, your weld with filler will likely never break, but the one without might if it's used for deep sea fishing and has to endure a lot of waves.Proud to be a UNION worker.  Better pay, better benefits, better work environment.  UA Unions = working for the working class!!
Reply:Engloid,Thanks again, I spent years working on boats and owning quite a few.  I always took the broken pieces to a weld shop and must say from the looks of this "flimsy" little rod holder they should have used some filler as every one of the tubes had cracked away from the mounting angle at the fusion welds.So am I to assume that you would grind the 3/32 electrode to a fine point and shallower angle to concentrate the arc?  Would the max ampre still be in the neigborhood of 60amps?I will try to do some more welds tomorrow  (am I to understand that each leg would be aprox 1/16th"?)I did notice it was fairly easy to start/stop to reposition to insure that I could see the puddle.  It really amazes me how consistant you pros are and I strive to get that good (even in my old age)I have a friend that manages a grocery store and I am hoping I can get a broken cart from him as I think that with some major modification it would make a good cart for my Dynasty and possibly my plasma cutter.Sure appreciate your willingness to help out a newbie!Merry Christmas,TimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:You'll get a feel for which welds are stronger, better in general with some practice. The weld doesn't look too bad, if you aredoing a weld with no filler, or a tiny bit of filler, you can use the torch to wash over your high spots and smooth them out. It's a great technique that is done with O/A and tig.... you just can't do it the same way with mig or stick. A little practice, and you'll lay down the lumps easily. Good luck, Paul.PS. If you were ever going to get good info on a weld, you are talking to one of the best welders I have eveer seen(Engloid....)And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Paul,Your Avitar shows a diver? are you?  I could tell by Engloids replies that he was a pro!  I so appreciate all you guys offer up for help.  Practice is much easier when you have someone point you in the right direction and even better (for some of us) when you can watch them do what they do!  I have noticed that one can really lay down the weld by washing the puddle and like O/A use the torch motion to move it along.  I also can see (from some of the suggestions you made on my AL that I need to work on keeping the arc more vertical so not to wash the puddle in the direction of the weld (causing me to have an inconsistant depth and penetration as well.TimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Tim:Once upon a time I hated fillet welds. My long arc length melted too large a puddle and my welds ended up too wide. Then I learned how to walk the cup, set my stick-out properly and use the 'lay wire' technique. First take that bead you made with filler and set your stick-out so the tungsten cannot touch the bead, the cup will hit on both the horiz and vert surfaces before the tung touches. Then lay your 1/16" filler in the root with a slight tension to bow the filler and just follow it around with the arc; sliding the cup along. If the cup hangs up, wiggle it a little, hence "walk the cup". Don't lift the filler out of the root, leave it there. The filler will wick into the puddle and make a darn near perfect fillet. I have never welded stainless, but it sure works on mild steel.Sharpen your tungsten somewhere between a pencil and a crayon (and truncate), it's close enough for manual welding. A 3/32" tung will handle well over 150 amps, especially the new mixes (I don't remember what color you're using).And remember this; I made my living sitting at a desk.  Engloid makes his living welding. If you want to see what can be done with a TIG, his web-site is in his profile.EDIT: sheesh Rojo beat me again. Last edited by Craig in Denver; 12-23-2008 at 02:13 AM.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Craig,I had heard of this and wasn't sure how to accomplish the technique.  So to clarify, does the weld puddle catch up to the filler or do you have the end of the filler always in the puddle? (not dipping in and out as I was and I am doing with AL?Paul, I thought only us amatuer welders washed out the high spots? I do now remember doing that with OA. (been a long time since I did in tubing welding on Airframes,  sure seems like with the proper post weld process this tig welding woudl be the way to go on an airframe (hard as heck to keep the frame straight after welding around clusters.Thanks for all the tips guys, (priceless)TimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Originally Posted by [email protected],I had heard of this and wasn't sure how to accomplish the technique.  So to clarify, does the weld puddle catch up to the filler or do you have the end of the filler always in the puddle? (not dipping in and out as I was and I am doing with AL?Thanks for all the tips guys, (priceless)Tim
Reply:Craig,  I am about to go cut some coupons of Mild steel and give it a go.  Was hoping to do some SS but I have run out of material, Need to find a fabricator that will sell me some falls from their shear?   (did you practice this first on horizontal beads and on but joints?)  Do you rid the sheet metal of all mill scale or are you able to burn through it? If so what did you use for abrasive?Sorry for the million questions!TimTimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Originally Posted by [email protected], (did you practice this first on horizontal beads and on butt joints?)  Do you rid the sheet metal of all mill scale or are you able to burn through it? If so what did you use for abrasive?Sorry for the million questions!Tim
Reply:Thanks for the compliments, guys.  I just wish I could find a job that was challenging, and paid well.  It seems that I can find one or the other, but not both.   Originally Posted by [email protected],I had heard of this and wasn't sure how to accomplish the technique.  So to clarify, does the weld puddle catch up to the filler or do you have the end of the filler always in the puddle? (not dipping in and out as I was and I am doing with AL?
Reply:Originally Posted by Engloid I just wish I could find a job that was challenging, and paid well.  It seems that I can find one or the other, but not both.
Reply:Originally Posted by BurnitAin't that the sad truth. Last summer I made more than I ever had, working with the Union Ironworkers, welding plates and clips on beams. Now I have my dream job welding all types of different things, everything from SMAW on staircases to TIG on Stellite. I don't make a whole lot
Reply:Engloid,I wish in my younger years that I had spent more time watching technique instead of BS'ing with the fitters and millwrights about what we would be doing after work.  Being a bush pilot I spent every hour I wasn't working, flying out fishing/hunting or just enjoying the Alaskan outback.  The internet has "seemingly" made it possible to learn the basic techniques used for Tig welding different metals.  I am truly hoping I will get into the (only) advanced tig/mig welding class available within 50 miles of my place. so I can have some personal oversight of my progress.I didn't get into any steel welding today as I decided I better fix the Snow shovel that I still  needed to get the Admirals car out of the Garage.The Shovel was one of those AL coal type shovels that was over 25 years old.  I cleaned up the bottom and leading edge and added a 2" piece, ( I got a lesson) in lap welding two different thicknesses with what appeared to be different alloys as well.  It wasn't pretty but I did get it put together and it will likely out last me (thank Goodnes we don't get the kind of snow we used to get in Alaska!  Today I had a devil of a time getting a good grind on my 3/32 tungsten (seemsed that it wasn't uniform all the wary around the circumference of the electrode?  I used a cordless to turn the tungsten and then held it as high up on the 8" wheel as I could (under the plastic protector shield)  Tomorrow I am going to see about getting a Silicone Carbide (green wheel) that is harder and smoother then the cheap one I have.I can tell it is going to take a lot of practice to really understand just what the arc is doing and learning how to very the amps to keep the puddle consistant (much more tedious then stick welding (at least the limited types I worked with)I went out last week and bought a 330CF bottle of Argon, and I intend to use it up practicing this process--and loving it!As for good paying challenging work for good pay, hopefully there will be some more refinery, and alternative fuel processing equipment to work on that will pay you guys what you and I  "know you are worth".Tomorrow I am going to practice some more on some mild steel coupons.Thanks again,Tim Attached ImagesA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Burnit,Thanks for the offer,  I would love to have some Gauge scraps to tack and weld for practice.  PM me with the freight charges. I am assuming there is a resturant equipment, or other SS/AL fab shop around just haven't found one yet.  I plan on using my Dynasty to make SS parts for Hotrods and Harleys so most will be pretty thin gauge  material upto about 3/16".Here is my Custom Chopper that I plan on tearing down and making some changes (when I can tig more presentable.I am ever grateful for all the help from the good folks on this site!  (Hope I can return the help in some way in the future.Tim Attached ImagesA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Gents,I finally a little scrape SS from a friend that works in a Chemical plant.  Mostly torch cut 1/4" stuff, but great for practice on.I thru a couple peaces together and practiced some flat fillet fusion and then added a vertical 1" sch 40 pipe nipple and welded it vertical up and fillet around the base and attempted to tie it all together.Here is my attempts for critique:  (I know I got to hot on some of it as the stickout wasn't adequate to get into the throat.  (also the fit-up wasn't the greatest (so I had some undercutting to wash the material into the fillet.I really like welding the SS!!  (wish it was less expensive  to buy material!!Thanks,Tim Attached ImagesA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Dayem Tim, that's some pretty rainbows.  That fillet around the round tube is sweet. So is the autogenous fillet. You said it's schedule 40, is that mild steel?9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Craig,Thanks, I am loving this Tig process!!  So far (by far) the SS is my favorite to weld.  I think I have been hard on myself, starting with thin material,  The 3/16-14" material is a lot easier to control the heat.  I am starting to get my shakes more consistant.  The tube is SS as well (I don't know if it is schedule 40,, as I don't know anything about SS tube/pipe sizing.  It is pretty thick.  I have a quite a few odd size pieces that the guy gave me, I need to clean them up so I can get some good 'fit-up'.  I am at the same time practicing with my new Mig machine,  very interesting what I am finding you can do with some motion paterns.  Practice, practice.Thanks again to all for the help getting started and for any critique you have to offer!Tim---the wantabe tigger!A rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Originally Posted by UltrachopCraig,Thanks, I am loving this Tig process!!  So far (by far) the SS is my favorite to weld.  I think I have been hard on myself, starting with thin material,
Reply:I too love tig welding. The process itself makes you involved with every detail....Now if you really want a nice lookin bead, turn up the amps (Way up), and pulse it around 6/sec... Hold the filler metal way back, rest your wrist on the plate and just press it into the lapjoint. Use a larger dia filler metal as more melts off and you dont have to feed it as much. Then just run over it once you've established a puddle.
Reply:Nothings is slowing me down except time to practice!!!  Now I do a little Tig and then a little mig.  Jamz,  I have done that with MS, works good on long runs, I am sure it would be pretty on SS.  I am working to get the rythm down.  The puddle is a lot easier for me to see with SS, The AL is still keeping me humble (big time)  Makes me so admire the "masters".TimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:For the thinner stuff I would use .035"-.045" filler, either 1/16 or 3/32 tungsten is fine, just sharpen accordingly. Try not adding too much filler to start with to practice getting your puddle size consistant.Here are some 2.5" tube welds I did on 304 ss, .065" wall the other dayJust keep on practicing!
Reply:Passenger,Thanks for the tips!  I have been running some more SS-304 and MS I am now understanding more and more what the puddle is telling me and watching carefully to keep the heat uniform and watching the toes fill.  As well I am seeing in the end by the color of the weld what is happening.  I will try to post some more photos tomorrow for critque.TimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)