E308l-16

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I had a small customer project to do in 304 stainless that needed to be welded outside in the wind, so I bought a box of McKay 3/32" E308L-16 electrodes and practiced on the 1/8" 304 stock I would be welding for the project.  The mfg info on the rods says they're all-position, to be run DCEP or AC with a current range 45-85 amps.   I used the XMT behind the Bobcat and set up DCEP @ 65 amps.  It went down like butter, beautiful, in the flat and horizontal positions, like 7024.   The slag is thick and black, also like 7024.   However, when it came to running them vertical up, it was a nightmare.  Now I've never stick welded stainless before, but I'm a good vert-up welder on most any rod or wire, it's my favorite position, so I was really frustrated when I couldn't get the verticals down pat with this 308 rod.  I put them in, but they were anything but pretty, complete contrast to the flats and horizontals I put in.  I could barely do the verts as stringers cause the weld would hump up too much (yes of course I was holding the toes, zipping accross the middle and holding a tight arc).  I had to do big weaves to get it to lay in, but then it wanted to blow out toward the top cause the weave put so much heat into the thin metal.   I tried it from 45 amps up to 75 and never found a sweet spot.  55 to 60 seemed to do best.  If rust resistance wasn't a concern for this project, I would have considered doing the verts with 7018, vert-up is a breeze with that.So, who has the trick to vert-up with 308 rod ??Last edited by DesertRider33; 03-04-2009 at 07:11 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:i know its not proper but for curiosity did you try vert down?  if it runs like 7024 probably no chance of it working but just wondering.  might have looked better if astetics was a huge concern over weld quality.www.burdettenetworks.com
Reply:308 is my "go to" SS rod.  It  welds a bunch of different grades of stainless.  Verticle up is a B**** with any stainless rod.  I'm like you, give me a Lo-Hi and I'll give you a pretty bead.  Give me a stainless, looks like a chicken with the $hits sat on top.  Try welding down, works much better.Good Luck.
Reply:Thanks guys.Out of frustration, I did try one vert-down.  All I got was slag running around the puddle and inclusions in the weld.  The info for the rods specifies up for verticals.  The base metal was only 1/8" thick, so I probly could have got away with doing the verts down, if it didn't come out with inclusions.Fortunately, for this job, strength was more important than aesthetics but even so, I hate it when a weld looks like bird carp.Last edited by DesertRider33; 03-04-2009 at 07:29 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I'll try some more vert-down with them and see how it goes.   The job is done and I rarely weld stainless,  but plenty of rod is leftover and I still wanna learn this rod.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:By the way, this rod is $$$...  $70 for 6 lbs (including tax and haz-mat) and the rods are only 10" long.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Vert-up with stainless seems to go better with a rod angle that is perpendicular to pointing down, if you can believe that, and take it slow and cold. Hope this helps, good luck!- If you can jump across it you can weld it!  - anonymous old boilermaker
Reply:Ok, now pointing the rod down never occurred to me.  I figured that would only make it worse.  Thanks, I'll try it and see how it works!MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Not much to add, other than I rember when I first started buring rods and could weld pretty much anything I wanted to on carbon steel, even flat and horizontal on SS. Then I got the task of some repairing some SS that was all vertical. It sure brought me down off my cloud I had to get some coaching from an old hand and the best thing I picked up from that helped me, was keeping the rod angle down, more so than perpindicular, like what was mentioned above.
Reply:Desertrider,Here's a link to the product datasheet, in case you didn't have one  http://www.hobartbrothers.com/pdf/da...SterlingAP.pdfIf you can't get acceptable results with the rod you have, you might try and get a sample of the 308-15 rod; it has a Lime flux on the outside.  It runs differently, and some prefer it to the -16 rod.  McKay's -15 and -16 have similar mechanical properties, so the end results should be the same.In any case, drag that 308 rod, like everybody else has mentioned.  Keep the heat as low as possible.  Don't step up too fast (travel too fast), as you'll outrun the slag and the molten puddle will spill over the slag dam.For multipass welds, grind'em flat before continuing on .  Think back to learning 7018 stringers vertical or overhead.  Those hills and valleys will just get more pronounced as you weld overtop of them.  I'll shutup now in case I'm preaching at the choir...Last thought, I like a product called 'slicstick' too.  It's stainless rod and I've had good experiences with it in the past.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:wow great info here desertrider let me know how you make out with the vert up with the down ward angle.   that is really strange.  are there any other times that you would use a downward angle while traveling vertical?www.burdettenetworks.com
Reply:My advice is to point strait at it with maybe a just a bit of angle as needed. Don't rush through the middle like you do with 7018. You need to keep the puddle nice and hot. I am one of about 20 people in my Local that have unlimited all position S.S papers. I have done a ton of stainless clips and vector connectors on pre cast. The slag is heavy with this rod. Also there are some 308 rods that are more suitable for out of position because of the flux. I forget what the number is but I will ask around. Its a 308L-XX rod. You might also want to try a triangle weave type motion to give it a bit of a shelf to sit on. It takes a while to get even decent at vert up stainless.I once kicked a hood off of a building because of the vertical up frustrations I was having...haha.Last edited by ironman715; 03-05-2009 at 11:14 AM.
Reply:Thanks guys for all the excellent tips.  Kangi, BNF and Ironman, I will practice the down angle as well as the straight in 90*, as well as the triangle weave and see what works for me.   A_Dab_Will_Do and Ironman, I'll  have to stay with this rod for practicing for now, as it was very expensive but fortunately the customer paid for it.  In the future I will try to remember that E308L-15 lime flux rod if I get more jobs stick welding stainless.A_Dab_Will_Do, thanks for the link to the product spec sheet.  The supplier printed that one out for me when I came to pick up the rod, otherwise I would have been lost. KBurd, I can't think of any other times for pointing the rod down doing a vert-up, this idea is entirely new to me. but obviously, I'm far from knowing everything so who knows, maybe someone else will come along and blow us all out of the water with yet another use for downward rod angle!Ironman, I can relate to your frustration!  MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:There are three types of coatings for 300 series electrodes: 15 lime, -16 ti, and -17 a european ti modified.The best for out of position welds is -15 lime because it freezes faster which helps keeps that fluid ss puddle from running around the slag covering.  Gravity plays a big roll here as the ss puddle is so fluid and slow to solidify, which is the reason you want to keep the electrode perpendicular or pointed slightly down.  Pointing the electrode up burns away the side wall of the joint which falls away before the electrode filler metal has a chance to melt in. This is a characteristic of all high alloy materials.  In addition to this the ss is a very poor conductor of heat so a vertical up weld is very difficult to make pretty. If this was your first shot at vertical up with ss and you got the job done, then you are a good weldor, especially with 3/32.  Most people have trouble with sticking the rod and cherrying out, so they up the amps and still cherry out, then they quit.  The advice to grind the ropey welds flat is excellent advice.  One other thing.  If you use a -15 coating in the future do not expect the flat and horizontal to look like pretty.  They will be slightly rounded because of the fast freezing flux/slag.  This where a Lincoln MG is so good.  You can kick the voltage down and hold a short arc to help limit the heat imput into the work piece.  If you are pipeweldor you know what I am talking about.
Reply:Jay Dubya, thanks for posting up your experience with stainless and stick.     I appreciate the pointers and reasoning behind it.I took a few minutes tonight and tried the rod pointing down method and it does work.   I only burned 4 rods and half of those were spent getting the current setting right since I was welding off the PowCon this time, which is always a guessing game as to what the setting is.  Anyways, I saw a definite improvement pointing the rod down.  The weld actually wets in at the toes and lays down in the middle and looks more like a vert-up bead should without getting all wild with the weaving.   I'll have to spend more time on it and burn up some more rods untill I feel comfortable with it but at least now the light is showing at the end of the tunnel.  Maybe I'll try it on the XMT next time so I'm not spending so much time guessing at the amp setting.  Too bad I didn't know about this rod angle when I was practicing for about an hour before I went to go do the job.  I think I would have got it down pat then.  Anyways, THANKS A BUNCH to all of you guys here who helped solve the mystery!   MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op