What size cup/nozzle

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I have no idea what size of cup/nozzle to get. I know there is all different numbers like #6 #10 I know you would want smaller ones for smaller the weld exc..I plan on welding a bike frame together , tubing is 1 1/2 O.D.
Reply:why not get a selection?  when you say bike frame do you mean bicycle or motorcycle?i use a #8 gas lens for most everything i do. if you use a gas lens you can have the electrode stick out further.Millermatic 211weldpack 3200 squirtgunsquare wave 200victory journeyman kitHypertherm 30xptoo much other crap to listtinkerer extraordinaire
Reply:Mountain bike frameI'll try and see if i can get a selection , that way i can see what works best.Is there a difference between cups and lens?Last edited by Bikespot; 02-08-2009 at 01:56 PM.
Reply:I usually use a #5 or #8  I have others, but these are what I keep coming back to. A gas lens makes for better flow of the gas.  It is nice sometimes and may keep better coverage, but I only use them occasionally.   What torch are you using?   #17?David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Ideally you want a gas lens collet body and ceramics to suit, depending on your torch you may also need an additional insulator to fit the gas lens collet body. Seatstays to seattube and head tube to downtube joints involve some pretty acute angles. Even with a tiny ceramic you'll need quite a bit of stickout to reach the joint- as said, a gas lens gives better shielding allowing more tungsten stick out for those hard to reach spotsCeramics are soooo cheap you may as well have a few to hand
Reply:Originally Posted by BikespotI have no idea what size of cup/nozzle to get. I know there is all different numbers like #6 #10
Reply:I'm not sure what type of torch it is. Probably a miller , but i will try and find out. The gas lens seem alot shorter than just the cup ones. I might need a different tip for the gas lens. I checked out weldingdepot (to bad they dont ship to Canada). If anyone knows of a good Canadian place let me know.Last edited by Bikespot; 02-08-2009 at 07:50 PM.
Reply:With a moniker like yours, is this your first go-round at a frame? I read an article about a guy called Frank the welder, he has done frames for decades, I'll look around for it.Found it! Mountain Biking magazine March 2004.Last edited by tanglediver; 02-08-2009 at 10:01 PM.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:The MFR doesn't matter. Mine says HELIARCtm on one side and HW-17 on the other. The important information is a #17. I can use any torch parts for a #17 torch.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverWith a moniker like yours, is this your first go-round at a frame? I read an article about a guy called Frank the welder, he has done frames for decades, I'll look around for it.Found it! Mountain Biking magazine March 2004.
Reply:Bike frames are simple structures that take serious, intensive skill to create well! My very, very first project was a sidehack built from two frames using oxy-acetylene. Yes, I do mean HACK!Dipping, I know that trick!  Last year in class I was dipping the tungsten on the otherside where I couldn't see it happening.   I just remember it needs to be really close, maybe 1/16".City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:i do my bike frames with a #8 and 10 with a gas lens and then sometimes i will brake out the big cup a #12.do lots of test joints first. get half way good at welding before you trust your life to your work
Reply:Originally Posted by BikespotYea , got to start somewhere. Mainly a prototype , to test out my welding skills and machining/fitting skills. I seem to have a problem of contaminating the tungsten alot! I dont understand , i think im not touching the metal , but i end up get blobs or black on the tungsten. How far away should the tungsten tip be from the metal?
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverBike frames are simple structures that take serious, intensive skill to create well! My very, very first project was a sidehack built from two frames using oxy-acetylene. Yes, I do mean HACK!Dipping, I know that trick!  Last year in class I was dipping the tungsten on the otherside where I couldn't see it happening.   I just remember it needs to be really close, maybe 1/16".
Reply:Originally Posted by BikespotCraig in Denver-  Thats mainly what happens or the tungsten gets eaten. Once i get the cups i'll give it another try , cause really i dont know exactly if its im too close or im dipping. Just need more practice. I have noticed sometimes the arc doesn't go where i want it to. So i have had to pull it out a bit to adjust. Could be a bad ground.
Reply:Re-sharpen your tungsten more often, especially after 'dipping' or other contamination.  That will help to control the wandering arc.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Craig,Do they give you the consumables at school cuz you been there forever??  The class I was "going to go to" required the students to purchase all the consumables Including the backcaps! all for the liberal price of $515!!It sounds like bikespot might not have a good ground on his frame tubing?  So what are you schooling on these days?TimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Do they give you the consumables at school cuz you been there forever??Tim:June will be the end of my second year. Since there's a continuous turn over in students, I don't know where I am on the 'seniority' list. But on a bad night, it seems like forever. Since most of the guys are adults, consumables don't seem to be a problem. I'm still on the first tungsten and cup that I was given last August. (one 1/8" setup and one 3/32") I've heard rumors that we only get one of each, but I've seen free replacements handed out. All for the liberal price of $515!!Two nights a week for 5 months @ $297 seems to include consumables. Since there's less than $20 for every thing on the torch, I wouldn't notice. All rod, stick, TIG and MIG is included in the course.Bikespot:Sorry about the hijack. 9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:the only time the arc wanders is when you dont have a nice pencil point on the tungston, assuming your welding steel...if you have a bad ground, the only way you would know is if you are having a really hard time getting an arc to start or if the arc is stable in its intensity...also, what kind of tungston are you using?  i use the red, thoriated ones, but a lot of people swear by the gold ones...could help with the tungston gettin eatin
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverIf you're getting a blob on your tungsten like the photo, you're either dipping the tungsten into the puddle or you're dipping the filler into the tungsten. Quit it.  The chances are it ISN'T a bad ground. That's an internet excuse for your bad welding.  If the 'tungsten is getting eaten': you aren't using a green (pure) tungsten on an inverter welder, are you? Or, you aren't using anything but pure argon; right?
Reply:Originally Posted by BikespotIm not denying anything , i may or may not be dipping. I think it was a green tip , i had to use what was available. I'm going to get some 3/32 red tip ones. Argon 100%. Ultrachop- I haven't started any welding on the tubing yet , only being using scrap steel laying around , which i grind clean.
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverBikespot:There's your problem, you can't use green on steel.
Reply:The red, is that 2%? I think it is. Random bike stuff...[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVZAEdJ89ug&feature=related[/ame][ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXxJj28lnZE&feature=related[/ame]City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by BikespotWell that might explain some of my problems.Which should i get  2% Thoriated?
Reply:To help arc wonder grind your tungsten in line with the face of the wheel while turning the tungsten.  Your grind marks should be in line with the length of the tungsten.  DanSay guys,  Probably seen this used before??   If not this is what I have done:  I dedicated a grinder to tungsten (silicone carbide wheel) it worked good but kinda hogged my bench so I thought hey there has to be a better way??  I looked at the portable grinders "sharpies" etc. and the more expensive ones and found they were basically a dremel tool with a patented head on them using the _ (little diamond wheels)  I almost ordered one so I could get those really uniform grinds.  Anyways,  while at the box store I found I could get the diamond wheels in a 3 pack with the quick disconnect kit and use my "existing Dremel".  I also had a little dremel drill press that holds the drill upright.  So if you want a good tungsten grinder that you can set on the bench next to your work or mount it in a drill press stand, vice or what ever, this is the cat meow!!  (you can turn the wheels over) and use both sides (I have used one wheel for over a month now and not worn out at all!!  On my setup I chuck the tungsten in a cordless drill and lightly hold it on the spinning wheel side and you get a perfect grind!!!  (you can also use it as a cut-off tool, and or score and break the tungsen without splitting them,Tim Attached ImagesA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:My wife has an A cup size and she reckons I have a No. 3 torch !My girlfriend has a D cup size and she reckons that I have a No. 17 torch !Cheers
Reply:Billy,Be lucky either one doesn't get into the shop and get the Mig gun and shoot you or grab the plasma cand nip the torchTimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Originally Posted by BikespotIm not denying anything , i may or may not be dipping. I think it was a green tip , i had to use what was available. I'm going to get some 3/32 red tip ones. Argon 100%. Ultrachop- I haven't started any welding on the tubing yet , only being using scrap steel laying around , which i grind clean.
Reply:Originally Posted by UltrachopSay guys,  Probably seen this used before??   If not this is what I have done:  I dedicated a grinder to tungsten (silicone carbide wheel) it worked good but kinda hogged my bench so I thought hey there has to be a better way??  I looked at the portable grinders "sharpies" etc. and the more expensive ones and found they were basically a dremel tool with a patented head on them using the _ (little diamond wheels)  I almost ordered one so I could get those really uniform grinds.  Anyways,  while at the box store I found I could get the diamond wheels in a 3 pack with the quick disconnect kit and use my "existing Dremel".  I also had a little dremel drill press that holds the drill upright.  So if you want a good tungsten grinder that you can set on the bench next to your work or mount it in a drill press stand, vice or what ever, this is the cat meow!!  (you can turn the wheels over) and use both sides (I have used one wheel for over a month now and not worn out at all!!  On my setup I chuck the tungsten in a cordless drill and lightly hold it on the spinning wheel side and you get a perfect grind!!!  (you can also use it as a cut-off tool, and or score and break the tungsen without splitting them,Tim
Reply:Aside from Thoriated, do you suggest that the dust from grinding tungsten is any worse then all the other grinding done in a shop??  Please enlighten me.  I do wear a dust particle mask when grinding. (might should set up a mini vac to the dremel. My point was it does a great job.Thanks for the dust warning if it truly is a health considerationTimA rich man is not the one who has the most but instead one who needs theleast. Retired IUEC local 19AK Bush pilot,  Chaplain  CMA Chapt 26victor torchesMiller110v migDynasty 200dx (new in Dec 08)Hypertherm PM-45MM-252 (new 2/09)
Reply:Originally Posted by UltrachopBilly,Be lucky either one doesn't get into the shop and get the Mig gun and shoot you or grab the plasma cand nip the torchTim
Reply:Bikespot - If you have a good connection I recommend putting on a pot of coffee and going through the videos listed at this site.  You end up sitting in his classroom and he takes you through different setups and processes. There are many to choose from.  I have bookmarked the site and been back often.  I have gotten quite a few questions answered here.http://www.tonywelding.com/Charlie
Reply:Thanks all!I ordered the cups and tungsten. Got the tungsten already 2% Thoriated 3/32 7x , just waiting for the cups. Once i get a few more things machined i will start practicing. I should notch up some left over tubing to use. I will take a look at the videos. I probably wont start welding for another week , might have to build a jig. Too much work to little time.
Reply:Gave it a try a few days ago. The red works so much better , it can actually hold the arc. I'm getting way better at not contaminating the tip. One thing i did notice though was sometimes i would see sparks coming out. Like when you touch the tungsten to your base metal it will spark, but i didnt touch it and i was getting sparks. I lifted it up even more and got some more sparks. Could that be other contamination?Another problem i noticed was sometimes , usually near the start i would get a crappy weld. It looked like a bunch of holes in it. Would that be something from the metal?
Reply:Glad to hear that you got the tungsten issue straightened out. Rereading the thread, I didn't see filler rod mentioned. The TIG process must have deoxidized filler. Mild steel has oxides in its make-up, and the proper filler helps neutalize them. The most common choices are ER70S-2 or ER70S-6. You cannot use RG-45 or RG-60, they are for oxy-fuel welding. And all four fillers are the same copper color. No coathangers either. Something I've recently learned; sometimes there are going to be sparks, even on freshly cleaned metal (flap disk or hard wheel, not a wire brush). I was having problems and asked the instructor for a demo. It was 1/8" mild steel, straight from the belt sander to my station. There were lotsa sparks, he didn't even slow down, and finished the demo. So sometimes, it's just the steel.The 'bunch of holes' are called porosity. Wrong filler will cause this, so will mill scale. A knot brush in a 4 1/2" grinder will not remove mill scale. It takes the above mentioned flap disk or hard wheel.This is my theory: If you're getting the mill scale off, and having sparks, a quick dip of deoxidized filler may help 'quench' the sparking. Also at the beginning of the weld, a quick dip may help, getting the deoxidation started. IMHO9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250