Asphalt Spreader Track Wheel/Spindle Rebuild..

admin

For once all I have to do is the welding part.. Asphalt track wheel had the bearing come apart and make a mess out of everything..All Caterpillar parts going into this so I don't know who made what here..But anyway here are the contestants..Pic 1 The wheel..Both sides are wiped our where the seal/bearing races go..Pic 2 The spindle that will be dealt with tomorrow...Pic 3 Hub Cap Side B-4 Treatment..Pic 4 Seal Side B-4 Treatment..Pic 5 All  chewed up overall..One more time......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:As we continue..Pic 1 and 2 is the hub cap side where the race goes welded..Pic 3 and 4 is the seal side welded..More on this tomorrow..I can still smell the paint and crap as I post this......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Very nice inside welds Nothing like welding inside a tube lol                                               Vernon
Reply:Damn, Zap. Sometimes you amaze me!! Looks really good!!                        MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Do you ever just kind of lean back and go whuuf after one of those welds?Very nice work zap!Matt
Reply:Nice job zap!Did you weld that on your positioner? I let oxymoron try mine out at the shop last weekend. I love watching people try to TIG weld on a positioner for the first time!! http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Not the first time for that thing coming loose...the punch marks are a give-away---surprised there aint red LocTite in there...
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabNice job zap!Did you weld that on your positioner? I let oxymoron try mine out at the shop last weekend. I love watching people try to TIG weld on a positioner for the first time!!
Reply:Originally Posted by TEKNot the first time for that thing coming loose...the punch marks are a give-away---surprised there aint red LocTite in there...
Reply:I was told that all I needed to do was the welding..Not Quite..My boss machined the wheel..I got stuck with the spindle..And they said all I needed to do was the welding..I should have known better.. After I got it welded and cooled down the fastest speed I could run this was a whopping 40 R.P.M.!!!!!This was so out of balance it would shake the machine if I went any faster and that takes some serious weight!!!Anyway on with the pics..Pic 1 is the chewed up spindle..Pic 2 is the really bad part..Note that it goes downhill..Pic 3 is welding just the low part up before doing the whole diameter..Pic 4 and 5 is the completed spindle before machining..Next post.....zap!Last edited by zapster; 08-25-2010 at 05:02 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:As we continue..Getting this indicated in was not as bad as I thought it would be..A little chuck jaw manipulation was in order but I got it in...Once it was indicated in then it was all routine after that..I had to indicate the shoulder in first then I used the stock centerhole to indicate in the end..All and all I got it to zero fast enough..Pic time..Pic 1 set up in machine Note jaws..Pic 2 note jaws..Pic 3 indicate the shoulder..Pic 4 indicate the centerhole..Pic 5 turning at 40 R.P.M.One last post.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Last but not least..Pic 1 roughed out..Pic 2 finished..Pic 3 finished..The bearing sizes were 75 MM 2.9527..Finished at 2.9532..Seal surface finished at 3.261  3.250 seal..I get all the fun jobs.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Look real nice I like the way you chucked your pcs up in the lathe. I'm sure your custmer will be real pleased with the work you have done here. Look better than new                                                                            Thank you for sharing  Vernon
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabNice job zap!Did you weld that on your positioner? I let oxymoron try mine out at the shop last weekend. I love watching people try to TIG weld on a positioner for the first time!!
Reply:Nice work!  How many total man hours from start to finish on the project?Please dont mistake my enthusiasm for talent!
Reply:Nice job Zap! Those parts are from a Barber-Greene paving machine. I grew up doing that type of work & reconize the parts.Flashhttp://flashracecarbodies.com
Reply:Originally Posted by oxy moroncompare the welds i did on the positioner (4 days ago) to that of the welds on the first rolling shop chairs i made (more then 1 year ago).. shockingly similarIn layman's terms, how similar is the built-up metal (filler rod) compared to the original metal as far as hardness?  reaction to heat?  I'm curios.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI was a first timer once.....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by oxy moroncompare the welds i did on the positioner (4 days ago) to that of the welds on the first rolling shop chairs i made (more then 1 year ago).. shockingly similarIn layman's terms, how similar is the built-up metal (filler rod) compared to the original metal as far as hardness?  reaction to heat?  I'm curios.
Reply:Originally Posted by oxy moronIn layman's terms, how similar is the built-up metal (filler rod) compared to the original metal as far as hardness?  reaction to heat?  I'm curios.
Reply:Originally Posted by Pontiac FreakNice work!  How many total man hours from start to finish on the project?
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloZap- great to see a classic post again from you. If this were baseball, you'd be a hell of a closer for the bullpen!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabDid they even have welders back then??
Reply:Good job on a tough fix zap, hard spots in welds or castings can make for a long day.MattZap,I'm kind of surprised that you didn't put the parts in a lathe first and run a few cuts to remove some/any of the embedded 'crud' (bearing pieces or non-metallic crud included) and to get down to some mostly 'intact' steel.  Cause all those cracks and gouges and chips and dings and punch-marks have to be -gone- somehow in order to make everything nice underneath.  I guess you just used some more amps to melt things out deep enough to get down to 'good' steel.And you ran all the weld beads circumferentially instead of the usually recommended axial direction?  Is that because you figured to minimize the interrupted cut 'factor' by having the weld beads running that way instead of axially?And like usual, it isn't necessarily easy, you just make it look that way.    The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterAs far as I know.....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabWas your first positioner mule powered? J/K zap. Nice work.
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloOh SNAP!!!!A serious question for the two of you moneymods.... If a spindle was made of mild steel, but the spindle showed lousy wear charachteristics, would doing the work you did (ZAP) be more effective with 4130 as a filler?? I am wondering because we have some similar stuff with wear on some bearing, and non-bushing glide surfaces with some of our shop equipment. It's far too costly to ship these 100-300lb steel pieces back to you to build them up. We have plenty of welders here at the shop who are good stick, and some really good tig pipe guys. We have machinists who are working our stuff monthly. Would 4130 be harder to the point of giving a better wear surface??
Reply:I'M no metal scientist but my take on things is if the owner/operator did a little preventative maintenence in the past then these episodes would not happen..Keep up with the neglect..Gives me something to do.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI'M no metal scientist......zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabYou mean Metallurgist?
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterYeah that......zap!
Reply:You tellin' me it's not 'Metal-allergist????!!!'Our guys are good on maintenance, but the stuff we work is pretty heavy. Last month, we had 2 backhoes running 10hrs a day at the same time attacking a concrete vault that was 18" thick 4000psi with steel galore. They had to punch the concrete to rubble, then cut/ break all the #4 and 5 steel. Even good diggers and dozers can't do that for months without wearing parts out. All the wear surfaces were.....worn!!!Thanks guys.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Rojo,Moving parts wear out.  That's where bushings and bearings and such are supposed to be used.  So that the replaceable bushing or bearing can be replaced.+1 on -not- trying to build up a worn surface with 4130 filler.  Not the right thing.If the wearing parts are wearing out too fast, then look into building them up with either some of the build-up welding fillers and possibly or instead using some sort of 'mild' hardfacing.  Stoody, Hobart (fillers), Lincoln, McKay, ESAB, etc, etc all make various fillers that could help out.Not all 'hardfacing' is just for abrasive wear against rocks or gravel or such (like bucket teeth or edges or sides, etc, etc).  Some are for metal-to-metal wear conditions, or even just build-up of metal parts with a little better wear hardness/toughness than plain mild steel fillers.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloOh SNAP!!!!A serious question for the two of you moneymods.... If a spindle was made of mild steel, but the spindle showed lousy wear charachteristics, would doing the work you did (ZAP) be more effective with 4130 as a filler?? I am wondering because we have some similar stuff with wear on some bearing, and non-bushing glide surfaces with some of our shop equipment. It's far too costly to ship these 100-300lb steel pieces back to you to build them up. We have plenty of welders here at the shop who are good stick, and some really good tig pipe guys. We have machinists who are working our stuff monthly. Would 4130 be harder to the point of giving a better wear surface??
Reply:Originally Posted by Matt_MaguireI'd +1 to MoonRise and ZTfab also. For most build up repairs use E70  for safety until there is a real reason to go up in strength. Tig with S-2 is going to get up well into the 80ksi over 1030 (pretty popular material for SAE use, along with 4130).If you have a rocking wheel, the motion will try to rock a bearing over the surface and upset the bearing seat surface (I'm thinking something like a bad trolley wheel here). Going to a hard face rod or brazing in this case just moves the problem somewhere else.You can move up in strength with 1030 safely in steps up to E100 but little surface hardness is gained so fretting will still happen.Got something more specific in mind Rojo?MattPS You can test for .30 carbon and above with a torch, just heat a small spot and quench as soon as you see dull red. There is a big difference between 1020 or low alloy spot hardness and material with .30 cabon and above with a file or carbide scribe point.