Caterpillar 980 loader repair

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Hi everyone!My name is Greg, I am new to this fourm. I'll start by introducing myself. I am 25 years old, from new york, I run my own 1000 sqt welding shop after 3:00 pm M-F. I currently work as a welding aide in BOCES. I come across a side job in which Im having trouble tackling which approach is best to fix the bucket. I have a customer that has a caterpillar 980 loader and the back of the bucket is peeled up like a banana. (pictures below) (I think they are wear plates but I am no heavy equipment guy) (I am from long island for gods sake) I dont know wether I should remove the entire plates or if I should just weld whats there. Any iput will aid. Thank you. Hopeing this picture I upload. acutally upload. Attached Images
Reply:I would cut out and replace.
Reply:Thank you nathan. I have two more questions. In what location what you make the cut? Near the bottom, like close to the cutting edge or would you go maybe 6 inches above that end then make the cut across and bevel the two together and weld? Now for the last questions, mild steel is fine? And if thats not enough can anyone help me guestimate how many hours I have ahead of me?
Reply:I would cut out and replace also. From the pictures it's obvious that the skid plates should have been replaced a long time ago. They should be 1 inch thick due to the beating they take. There should be 2 plates and from the looks of the neglect I think you might be able to cut them off with a cutoff wheel on a grinder. If not a torch will work. I think that bucket needs more than skid plates from the looks of it. If I was going to do the job right I would replace the complete plate and charge between $250 and $300 per plate plus materials. Maybe more because I can't look at the bucket. If you have to take the front skid plate off the front edge of the bucket to replace the skid plates I would charge more.On a job like this I prefer a stick welder due to the thick plates that need to be welded. After looking at your pics I would charge more like $350 to $425 per plate due to the damage on the bucket and maybe more.I also would mark up any materials 20% just because you might have to go pick them up.Last edited by kctgb; 05-01-2012 at 09:22 PM.
Reply:First I would get real comfortable  with a wire brush - theres going to be a lot more to that than just replacing a way beyond gone wear plate.  The wear plate would be best replaced with an abrasive rated steel - and make certain you know what steel you are getting.  pre/post heat and interpass on some of those alloys can be critical.  I typically use xx18 depending on what the manufacture calls for (usually 7018 8018) but have seen some that went 110m etc.  Once you cut out the old plate you will probably chasing cracks all over the place - gouge hell out of them and make sure you know what you are welding on.When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives.
Reply:The bottom is a total re-skin and all of  the above advice is soundWho ever own's it is going to wish they had replaced the wear platesHow well off is the inside of the bucketBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:That's actually pretty straight forward.  Cut the heel plate off, you will find the seam just behind the cutting edge.  go over to Connell Mining in Berkely Heights NJ and get a piece of Hardox 450, 3/4" thick or ask for a piece of SAS Vanguard plate, or if they have it, get 3/8 on 3/8" SA 1750 chrome, with either you will have to buy a complete sheet, but you may get lucky if they have a large drop to sell you.  Anyway, weld it on with 7018, if it's the hardox or vanguard you will want to preheat it to 300F first, if its chrome overlay, you weld the sub strat with 7018, no preheat, then fill up to the top edge with 309 stainless, no preheat.  4 hour job, 1500 for a full plate of wear iron, 50 dollars in rod.6 Miller Big Blue 600 Air Paks2 Miller 400D6 Lincoln LN-25's4 Miller Xtreme 12VS2 Miller Dimension 812 4 Climax BW-3000Z bore welders Hypertherm 65 and 85Bug-O Track BugPair of Welpers
Reply:Advise from ...The MAN  Hi ExpatBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:It is amazing hearing an expert talk about his work.
Reply:Really appreicate everyones input. thank you so much.  Expat seen some of your work in other threads, nice work and btw I think your truck maybe be my next one to. i wont make fun. Now that SA overlay piece is that bascially like a mild steel with a 3/8s overlay of chrome nickle on one side and the same on the other? almost like a andes mint? lolOne other question, any chances of purchasing that material locally? Anyone fimilar with long island?
Reply:inside of bucket is in very nice shape. no cracks, no rust, looks like a mirror.
Reply:Looks like someone needs to adjust the bucket leveler so the teeth or cutting edge touches the ground first. And they also need to be trained to inspect the bottom of the bucket more often.                                                          MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Originally Posted by lovetoweldReally appreicate everyones input. thank you so much.  Expat seen some of your work in other threads, nice work and btw I think your truck maybe be my next one to. i wont make fun. Now that SA overlay piece is that bascially like a mild steel with a 3/8s overlay of chrome nickle on one side and the same on the other? almost like a andes mint? lolOne other question, any chances of purchasing that material locally? Anyone fimilar with long island?
Reply:Thank you everyone for all your advice. End result, guy is to cheap to go for the wear plates. Wants me to weld on scrap mild steel He has laying around his shop area. Oh well, guess you get what you pay for. Good news about the job, I'll be back soon enough to replace the worn out plates = more business = more money.
Reply:Originally Posted by lovetoweldThank you everyone for all your advice. End result, guy is to cheap to go for the wear plates. Wants me to weld on scrap mild steel He has laying around his shop area. Oh well, guess you get what you pay for. Good news about the job, I'll be back soon enough to replace the worn out plates = more business = more money.
Reply:Yep, when he completely destroys the bucket, he'll think the cost to have done this right was "cheap". These guys always can find the money to do it over, but never the money to do it right in the 1st place. The sad thing is they usually blame you the welder because it doesn't hold up like the original did, not themselves for doing it cheap..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by lovetoweldThank you everyone for all your advice. End result, guy is to cheap to go for the wear plates. Wants me to weld on scrap mild steel He has laying around his shop area. Oh well, guess you get what you pay for. Good news about the job, I'll be back soon enough to replace the worn out plates = more business = more money.
Reply:if your gonna do it on the cheap write out your contract to a T list all the damage the right repair then what he wants you to do list everything and make him sign it cover your but so he don't come calling when it starts to fall apart again350P 30A spool gun cut master 51  syncro 250 other stuff " take a dog off the street and make him prosper and he will not bite you sad the same cannot be said for man" i didnt use punctuation just to piss you off
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWYep, when he completely destroys the bucket, he'll think the cost to have done this right was "cheap". These guys always can find the money to do it over, but never the money to do it right in the 1st place. The sad thing is they usually blame you the welder because it doesn't hold up like the original did, not themselves for doing it cheap.
Reply:Yep, when he completely destroys the bucket, he'll think the cost to have done this right was "cheap". These guys always can find the money to do it over, but never the money to do it right in the 1st place. He told me he pays 110k in taxes a year for the property. With that kind of money in taxes alone, im sure he can afford to do it right but neglects it. I may have a bad attitude but if he's going to pay me for shoty work, so be it. How I look at it, Im getting paid to have fun and play with my tools in a trade I love. It's only going to give me more money for more tools so I can grow. And since its done wrong, it will come back shortly there after. He tells me that he wants me to come every saturday to maintain all his odd and end jobs. Gave me cash the past two saturdays, honestly I cant complain.
Reply:Just make sure you don't repair something that could cause personal injury or death. You could be at the end of the search for someone to blame when the lawyers come calling. Then you'll need all that cash plus some.                                             MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:He's just one of the many like him Like i said job security And he will probably keep having you work for him if you just do what he wantsSuggest what would be the right thing to do... but do what he wants ...providing it's not anything dangerous to you or someone else And when he makes up his mind to spend the money and do it right you will be the guy doing the job.These guys will do the bubblegum,  bailing wire and tape thing for about so long and they will get tired of messing around with it and do it rightIf not you made some money and maybe he tells others your the man for the jobIf you start telling people ...The Boss..How to run his business it will go bad for youBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:At this point in my career, I would politely tell him to take a flying F#CK at a rolling donut,,,20 years ago, I would probably do as you are doing and do it the way he wants........Experience is something you gain right AFTER you needed it.--Matt6 Miller Big Blue 600 Air Paks2 Miller 400D6 Lincoln LN-25's4 Miller Xtreme 12VS2 Miller Dimension 812 4 Climax BW-3000Z bore welders Hypertherm 65 and 85Bug-O Track BugPair of Welpers
Reply:Just fix it using the mild steel plate as he wants, you have done your duty by recommending the proper AR plate for the job, perhaps recommend some hard facing to help it last longer but it sounds like he won't go for that either.  Make sure your work is the best possible, that mild steel plate may be cheap but if a weld cracks or fails you will be blamed anyway.   Perhaps you are not charging enough, he may think it is cheaper to get you to replace mild steel plates than to use the proper wear resistant material.Another consideration is you probably don't know his intentions which ,may be to sell or trade the loader or replace the bucket itself with a new one and sell or auction off this one or keep it as a spare etc.  There are usually many options to consider as an equipment owner that he may be considering which he may not have told you about.So do the work, take his money and try not to say I told you so when he comes back to get it done next time."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:Simply put the owner already showed His ignorance as the area of concern utilizes bolt on wear plates and also the pictures tend to indicate cracks around support ribs which can lead to the bucket cracking as well, good luck !AWS CWI Hypertherm 850 plasmaLincoln LN-25Lincoln SAE 400Miller Big 40D28' X 36' X 14' Shop_____________________________________Tools are not the the skill but simply tools!Get out the pressure washer then the wire wheel. Dog the old plate back down and tack it back in place. weld up the cracks real nice and then slap his mild steel on it just like he asked. It won't do you any good to tell him the proper way to do it but you have to anyway for piece of mind and legitimate argument stance.. Give him what he wants and he'll give you what you want- business.
Reply:What equipment and rods will you use?
Reply:I used all 1/8 7018 and 5/32 for the bigger fills.
Reply:i have a trailblazer 280 nt with 400 hrs on the clock. love the machine, best 2k i ever spent. My first machine was a 1966 marquette, 24 horse v-twin air cooled machine, 300 amp machine at 100% duty cycle. Great machine and it still welded great, just outgrew it, needed the tig option and the suitcase.
Reply:I used AC7018 and a piece of #5 rebar about 16 years ago to tack this bucket together. I recently repaired the hydrolic gland ($100 from CASE). Its an old 680CK.  Im going to rebuild my old welds with 7018 DCEP. What do you use for hard facing? Fleetweld or something like that?The last pic is of an ALLISCHALMERS forklift that I torched up because I was bored. It took one tank of Oxy and one Ace and two days. I used the backhoe to knock it over to finish cutting it for safety reasons. Attached Images
Reply:Use hardfacing rod, or wire for hardfacing, there are many many brands and compositions out there, each one for a particular application.  You want one for abrasion resistance, not metal to metal.--Matt6 Miller Big Blue 600 Air Paks2 Miller 400D6 Lincoln LN-25's4 Miller Xtreme 12VS2 Miller Dimension 812 4 Climax BW-3000Z bore welders Hypertherm 65 and 85Bug-O Track BugPair of Welpers
Reply:Hardalloy 140 or 155 or equivalent would work for youBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:I use inweld hardfacing hf-507 rod. I matched the type of rod with the application. I havn't gotten into hard facing with wire yet though. I really like wire though, really seems to move the job along faster. But theres something in my head that my instructor always told me, you can't beat stick. by the way i paid about 5 bucks per pound for the hf rod so i could only imagine how much a 30lb spool would run. needless to say maybe running a shielding gas.
Reply:You would really hate to see Expats rod / wire BillWhen i hard face i make them buy the rod / wire..too much moneyBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Originally Posted by lovetoweldI use inweld hardfacing hf-507 rod. I matched the type of rod with the application. I havn't gotten into hard facing with wire yet though. I really like wire though, really seems to move the job along faster. But theres something in my head that my instructor always told me, you can't beat stick. by the way i paid about 5 bucks per pound for the hf rod so i could only imagine how much a 30lb spool would run. needless to say maybe running a shielding gas.