Pro 300 or Pipe Pro 304, which would you choose and why?

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The heavy iron contractor at the jobsite I've been working on rents Pro 300's with LN25's from a local rental outfit and I have been impressed with how quiet they are.   I walk by them and barely tell they're running, even with an arc going.   The wire arc is louder than the motor, it seems!I'm working with the structural sheetmetal contractor, he doesn't rent machines for us, my friend and I supply our own machines (Passports) and run extension cords from his power boxes so we don't have to run our gennys.  I wouldn't want to listen to my Bobcat screaming continuously for 8 hours a day anyways.    This got me thinking about a quiet, low rpm diesel welder at some point in the future.   The Pipe Pro 304 would be a natural graduation for me, since I run my XMT 304 off the Bobcat and am used to the XMT and like it.   The Pro 300 and Pipe Pro are close enough in price, output, features, size, weight to make them competitive with eachother.  I'm just wondering which one any of you here would choose between the two and why?MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I just went around and around and around with my miller rep and my dealer over this same thing.   Since both yourself and myself do simlar kinds of work and both already have an Xmt multi processor.   I would go with the Pro 300.  I was all ready to buy a miller 304 pipe pro.  But my rep talked me out of it.  The pro 300 will out last the 304 in engine time, will run quieter, smoother dc arc, use half the fuel, etc.  Plus cost less. He stated that when you need the capablitys of the xmt, just plug it in and just use the Pro 300 for a power source.  There are far more parts to the pipe pro to break.  After talking to one guy who bought one.  He can run it 30 hours on 12 gallons of diesel runing 1/8" 7018 all day.  Vs the pipe pro running at 3200 rpms buring a gallon an hour of fuel.   He also when as far to say it welds better than his 50 year old lincoln sa200.  I will be getting a Pro 300 here shortly.Lincoln 300 Vantage 2008300 Commander 1999SA250 1999SA200 1968Miller Syncrowave 200XMT350MPA/S-52E/xr-15Xtreme 12vs Millermatic 251 w/30A  Millermatic 251 Dialarc 250 Hypertherm 1250 GEKA & Bantom Ironwokers
Reply:Thanks for your thoughts.  The quiet and low fuel use of the Pro 300 do sound very appealing, as well as the price.   I think it's about $2800 less than the Pipe Pro.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:$2800 savings if not more.  Don't forget the dual power option is another $950 and if you want to get stainless steel covers add another $1000 if I remember correctly.  Where the stainless on the 300 is $700.   I am in the middle of trying to decide if I want the blue tin or the stainless tin on mine.Lincoln 300 Vantage 2008300 Commander 1999SA250 1999SA200 1968Miller Syncrowave 200XMT350MPA/S-52E/xr-15Xtreme 12vs Millermatic 251 w/30A  Millermatic 251 Dialarc 250 Hypertherm 1250 GEKA & Bantom Ironwokers
Reply:I would say since your buying a VS feeder I would look for something with 350 amps output in CV.   the 305 Millers and Lincoln have barely enough balls to pull 0.072 core wire.  which is the future of structural welding.  Throw out 200' of lead and it gets very dicey.   Especially in California and other seismic regions.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Here are the specs on the two machines-Pipe Pro 304Kubota D1005 26hp @ 3600 rpm, 3-cyl water cooled diesel5 - 400 amps DC/CC stick10 - 34 volts DC/CV wire300 amps @ 32 volts 60% rated duty cycle12,000 watts 50 amps @ 240 volts single phase100 amps @ 120 volts30 amps @ 240 volts 3-phase~1000 lbs, with fuelMSRP $14,845Pro 300 CC/CVCat C1.5, 22hp @ 1800 rpm, 3-cyl water cooled diesel20 - 410 amps DC/CC stick14 - 40 volts DC/CV wire300 amps @ 32 volts 60% rated duty cycle10,000 watts (12KW peak) 42 amps @ 240 volts single phase83 amps @ 120 voltsno 3-phase generator output~1200 lbs, with fuelMSRP $12,110Both machines have same rated duty cycle and nearly same CC output.  Pro 300 has higher max voltage CV output but doesn't dial down as low as the Pipe Pro.   Pro 300 is heavier and has less generator output but it's engine runs at a lower rpm and is quieter.For the record, the Big 40 and Big Blue 400 CC/CV are similar in price range but weigh 300 to 500 lbs more.  I don't think my truck can carry them.   The Pipe Pro or Pro 300 are about as heavy as I can go and that may be stretching things a bit.  The F350 already weighs over 10,000 lbs with the Bobcat and air compressor.What I have available now with the Bobcat and XMT304cc/cv is...Using the Bobcat soley as a generator..10,000 watts, 44 amps @ 240 volts single phase88 amps @ 120 voltsno 3-phase generator outputWelding with the XMT on single phase power from the Bobcat...5 - 400 amps CC stick10 - 35 volts CV wire225 amps @ 29 volts 60% rated duty cycle, on single phase powerWeight is about 600 - 650 lbs for the Bobcat with gas and 80 lbs for the XMTLast edited by DesertRider33; 05-03-2009 at 08:12 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:the big blue and big 40 only have 5.5KW ac power.that would restrict the use with an inverter.G
Reply:On the regular model Big 40 CC and Big Blue CC, that's true, only 5500 watts peak, 4000 continuous.  The Big 40 CC/CV Deluxe model has 12,000 watts single phase and 15,000 watts 3-phase, as does the Big Blue 400 CC/CV Deluxe.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Cat C1.5, 22hp @ 1800 rpm, 3-cyl water cooled diesel
Reply:Originally Posted by daddyI never met a CAT engine I didn't like.
Reply:those aren't REALLY Cat engines.there perkapillars.  Perkins diesels hiding under a coat of cat yellow.   in fact most of the engine blocks will still bear Perkins insignias cast into themVantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Daddy,If you've never seen a CAT engine you didn't like, you must have never put your eyes on the 3116/3126 series.  These engines were horrible for marine applications.They just about destroyed all the owner loyalty that had been built up over the years by the 3208.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:My experience has been all heavy equipment and Peterbilt trucks. Older 12G graders( 3306?) loaders crawlers backhoes, 3406E in the trucks I think, and my favorite, the 3456 in the road milling machine that I spend all summer on. The only thing I know about marine is that it is better to have friends with boats than have one yourself  The smallest CAT product that I am familiar with is a little asphalt roller that is very quiet and cold blooded, but runs like a top. I don't know if it is a "real" CAT engine or not.
Reply:I have to agree to sundownIII.     The 3116/3126 were definitely hit and miss in trucks also.   My Dad bought a 2001 Pete 330 4 door conversion with a Cat 3126 routed through a eaton 10spd autoshift.   After his friends down at the local cat dealer fiddled with it and added the 350hp fire service rating to it, it really hauled the mail.  Pulled his 6 horse trailer like a freight train.And The post 03 Acerts weren't doing a damn thing to help out Cat's Rep.    You couldn't GIVE me an 07 or newer Acert.    Unless I could trade it in on an ISX or a 99-00 15.8L 3406 EI was a born and breed Cat man all the way back to the 1693 diesels in trucks and the tractors with pony starting motors.I still have faith in most things Cat yellow as long as it isn't hiding under the nose of a new truck!Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33On the regular model Big 40 CC and Big Blue CC, that's true, only 5500 watts peak, 4000 continuous.  The Big 40 CC/CV Deluxe model has 12,000 watts single phase and 15,000 watts 3-phase, as does the Big Blue 400 CC/CV Deluxe.