Welding on a kickstand.... Will it fry electronics?

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I've got a guy bringing a Harley over to weld the heel kick of his kickstand back on.I'm wondering if it will hurt anything electronic to weld it on the kickstand while it's mounted to the bike?
Reply:putting the ground clamp right there on the kickstand itself should minimize risk and it really should be fine but if you really want no risk then remove it....miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:The guy bringing it in didn't care.  Said if it did he wouldn't hold me responsible but I think that's a silly way of looking at things....I will be grounding close to the weld.  Thanks
Reply:why not disconect the battery so that the current does not have a path to the ecm, or like above remove the kick stand from the bike to avoid all potential for damage.
Reply:yeah man, didn't say it but I assumed you would at least disconnect the battery miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:The high freq is the part you should be worried about.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Fixed!  I removed the battery for sure... I just didn't know if current could screw up ignition or anything else.
Reply:Glad it went well.For others who may be in the same position one day...................Any ANY ANY pathway to the ECM can cause damage.  INCLUDING GROUND PATHWAYS.  It's actually best to remove the harness to the ECM in addition to other precautions you'd normally take.I fried the puter in my 1 ton when welding on the bed.  Luckily I was able to score one offa Ebay.  The 94 models still had an ECM that doesn't have to be programmed, just plug and chug.  Newer trucks have to have the stupid thing programmed while it's installed, or before "Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Guess I got lucky then because I didn't unplug anything... just the battery.  Now I know for next time!!  Don't need to kill my profit by replacing parts!
Reply:Originally Posted by CGCINCThe guy bringing it in didn't care.  Said if it did he wouldn't hold me responsible but I think that's a silly way of looking at things....I will be grounding close to the weld.  Thanks
Reply:A transformer is a coil of wire creating a magnetic field, and another coil of wire creating a voltage and current because of that magnetic field.With an electric welder you have a strong magnetic field because of the welding current. You also will have a wiring harness full of wires (connected to the ECU or other sensitive electronics) inside that magnetic field. That is a crude transformer, that can produce high enough voltages to kill any sensitive type of electronics... So basically, you can fry something very expensive simply by welding (or having one of the cables from the welder) anywhere near wires directly or indirectly connected to it. Disconnecting the battery doesn't help that either.If you're worried, pull the plug out of every electronic device on the bike (or car). Just don't expect the owner to pay for the time to do it, and don't expect him to pay for broken electronics either... Tough spot - but there are many reasons to like O/A welding.
Reply:Here is another subject that has been beaten to death..again.I see no need to disconnect anything at any time and have done my fair share of welding on stuff with computers attached..This fall I am going to make a replacement frame for the dump body on my truck and I will not bother disconnecting anything either.I have done TONS of welding on my truck so far and so good..Ever been to a dragstrip?Ever see someone weld something back together at one?Ever see the vast array of serious electronics in a Super Gas car?Ever see the owner frantically try to disconnect the throttle stop..MSD boxes..shifter timers and all that other happy crap before hand?NO.Ever see the frantic thrash on a desert racing truck when things break on a pit stop?Do they take the time when the clock is running to disconnect everything just for a weld repair?NO.Do you really think that a custom muffler shop goes thru this hassle when welding a exhaust on a car/truck?NO.My mechanic does welding on trucks all the time and don't bother either.Take it for what it is but if the ground clamp is as near the weld as possible then NOTHING HAPPENS.IF something happened to YOU then you did something drastically incorrect.And with that let the bashing begin....zap!Last edited by zapster; 07-03-2012 at 07:07 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Biggest mistake people make is grounding through something thats not welded or bolted good and it looks for a better ground path. I weld on tractors and equipment all the time with out problems.Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:I'm with  Zap on this one.  Been around a lot of guys that fab on cars, and they never undo the battery cable.  Sometimes I do, most times I don't.  Never had any reported issues, nor any reported to me, but if it makes you feel good, disconnect.  Only downside is the customer's gotta reprogram some things.-AaronJet 17.5" Drill Press1942 South Bend 16x84 Lathe1980s Miller 320A / BP --- 2013 Power Mig 2562012 Jet 7x12 Horizontal BandsawVictor O/A Setup
Reply:I have to agree with Zap also, There are a LOT of us that have actually even used a truck bed as a welding table from time to time.The high freq is the part you should be worried about.
Reply:Electricity is a funny thing....but it strictly follows the laws of physics.The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.  Ground close and ground good and you (should) have no problem.  On the other hand, if you forget to ground or have a bad ground, that "funny thing" will look for the next closest path to ground.  That is when you can get into trouble
Reply:Electricity is like a lazy horny dog.  It'll only travel as far as it has to, to take care of biz.When he can't find what he's looking for, he will begin to wander.Sometimes I think my ground is not to good
Reply:I'm with zap too. I welded my bumpers and nerf bars on to my jeep with out disconnecting anything and nothing happened to the computer.
Reply:Where we have a problem is people welding on engines while grounded to the hull of our boats.  The current can potentially run through the block, through the bearings, through the crankshaft, through the propshaft, to the hull.  These are all places you don't want arc burns.  The solution?  Ground the block, dummy.As for electronics?  Your welder only puts out 35 volts.  Most electronics, even sensitive ones, can handle this.At work, they make us disconnect a strain gauge in a load pin on one of our winches because we fried one in the past and the pin runs about $7k.  But it wasn't welding that caused the damage, it was a "ground fault" in the 120v electrical system that did.  I think someone wired it up to 120.  But... it's now a policy and it's a PITA.  Disconnecting the computer is like not mixing synthetic and dino oils is like taking it easy on engines during break in is like...Last edited by 76GMC1500; 07-04-2012 at 09:06 AM.
Reply:My .02 , I have no scientific evidence to prove it but I also think the more acurately and precisely you can strike and maintain and arc or start the MIG the better off you are. When your pecking away the voltages and paths created can travel to a lot of unwanted places. Gring the area clean, especially where your ground is , get comfortable and get right in and turn the amps up enough so you can just get right to it without a lot of starts and stops and on and off flashes."Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverThe high freq is the part you should be worried about.
Reply:The path of least resistance is what it follows.. not a straight lineThis has been proven time and time again when an operator panics when they hit a power source and jump out of the machine if they would have stayed where they were it would have been a long wait while the power is shut off But they jump and become the path of least resistance...Yuck it's a smell you will never forget...Line was several thousand KV @ about a thousand amps... caught the flash out of the corner of my eye and heard him explode from the water in his body convert to steam as he cooked in about a millisecond or so not a big bang but went in one arm and out his foot ...Not PrettyI have seen people do stupid things with there ground which should be as close as possible to your weld in most casesBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:I do collision work on late model cars and being in the business I do here horror stories from other shops... I too have done welding on cars many times without disconnecting anything without problems but if I'm welding a new quarter panel onto a late model Mercedes or something  I will at least disconnect the battery... if there happens to be a SAM module in the inner quarter panel housing I will remove it... some cars have a lot of very sensitive electronics and an ounce of prevention can be worth a pound of cure   placing the ground clamp correctly is def the first step in avoiding problemsmiller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:Electricity takes ALL PATHS of non-infinite impedance. The problem is, though, that the resistance for certain paths at all frequencies is NOT the same. You can literally take a solid copper PCB trace on a circuit board, and have it look like an open circuit to a high frequency signal. The chances of this happening with your ground connected really close to where you were welding would be extremely slim, as the high frequency will find a path through the metal of the proper wavelength such that the characteristic impedance it sees is good. I would imagine the designers of the ECU's have put some pretty hefty EMI and transient suppression on all the lines going in and out of it. After all, the ignition system on a car is notorious for emitting all kinds of crap.
Reply:I mad and welded this one on - no problem Attached ImagesThe main thing is not to panic or get excited Bobcat 250, X-Treme 12VS,  MM211Meltabo, Milwaukee,Porter Cable,Dewalt,MakitaVictor O/A, Ingersoll-RandEvolution Rage2, 40 amp PlasmaLincoln 225 AC/DCOriginally Posted by kidtigger24If it is the high frequency that is the thing to worry about, what if you used scratch start TIG? Is there still HF present even in scratch start mode?kidtigger24