What is the best rod to use to repair a shovel?

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I have a 4” wide trenching shovel that I’ve had for 30 years and I just love how it feels. I can do some serious digging with it except that it keeps breaking in half. I’ve welded it a couple of times and I’ve tried several different rods, but it keeps breaking in about the same spot. I’ve bought 3 other trenching shovels over the years and nothing works as well as this, so I really would like to fix it and I have a Lincoln AC 225 welder. I’m also thinking about adding a bead along the length to stiffen it up, but I’m not sure if that's going to affect the efficiently of the shovel.
Reply:What electrode have you used in the past?  What electrodes do you have to choose from?I offer three choices: Good, Fast, & Cheap. You may pick two.Hobart AC/DC StikMate LXHarbor Freight AD HoodHarbor Freight Industrial Chop SawDeVilbis 20 Gallon, 5 HP Compressor
Reply:Picture? Perhaps it needs reenforcing, if it has a weak spot it will keep breaking there no matter how good the weld is.
Reply:Shovel blades are often tempered steel. Designed to flex but not bend. When you weld on something like this you often change the molecular make up of the steel and weaken the material next to the weld in the area effected by the welding heat. Add to that the fact that the blade now has a stiff spot from the weld, and it doesn't surprise me you are having issues..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by G-sonPicture? Perhaps it needs reenforcing, if it has a weak spot it will keep breaking there no matter how good the weld is.
Reply:I'ld throw it on the gas grill myself, that'll get all the old wood out from the socket. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=131981Maybe your handle is ok, then don't bbq it! Didn't we just see this repair done with a "farm welder"? Keep trying, but unless you get it right, it will probably just get worse. City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I've fixed a couple that have lasted. I welded the break and then welded beads across that bead for a couple inches every inch, staggering their lengths. I used 3/32" 7018's.
Reply:Originally Posted by nadogailWhat electrode have you used in the past?  What electrodes do you have to choose from?
Reply:Well after cleaning it up a little with a wire brush, I’m not sure that welding it any more is going to be worth it. There are just too many micro cracks. I think I’ll just have to keep looking for similar shovel and maybe I’ll get lucky and find the exact model.Anyway here is the photo and I know it’s a little embarrassing. I’ve welded it so many times that I didn’t even try the last time. I just pretty much stuck it together so could finish my trench.
Reply:id use 3/32 6010 or 7010
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWShovel blades are often tempered steel. Designed to flex but not bend. When you weld on something like this you often change the molecular make up of the steel and weaken the material next to the weld in the area effected by the welding heat. Add to that the fact that the blade now has a stiff spot from the weld, and it doesn't surprise me you are having issues.
Reply:Oh the drama!  Clean the extra weld off of that, wire wheel the cracks, and oxyfuel weld it. I'ld go with R60. In the absence of a gas torch, and only having an AC machine, try 3/32 6011 on the low side of its range. You may need to avoid running a full length bead because of the heat input. Grind out anything that bulges out too much. When you get done, then look into the whole heat treatment thing.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by bert the welderX2Needs to be annealed, fixed, heat, quench, temper to be a true rebirth. I know it's hard,   but you may have to let her go. It'd be for the best. She's given you all she has, Capt'n. It's the humane thing to do.  May I suggest gently removing the stick out of her arse and making a nice box frame, and hanging her on your office wall. A tribute to a truly great partnership and an example to all future partners of just what could be..............
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverOh the drama!  Clean the extra weld off of that, wire wheel the cracks, and oxyfuel weld it. I'ld go with R60. In the absence of a gas torch, and only having an AC machine, try 3/32 6011 on the low side of its range. You may need to avoid running a full length bead because of the heat input. Grind out anything that bulges out too much. When you get done, then look into the whole heat treatment thing.
Reply:Electric welding tends to produce welds that cool (too) quickly because of the cool metal around it, behome hard and sometimes crack easily, O/A welds are done slower with more heat spread around the weld and slower cooling, producing softer welds. That heat ofcourse can cause other problems with warping or softening steel, but one problem at a time... I would have ground off the old welds, O/A welded the cracks and added some kind of reenforcement to take the load off the cracked area. It might become soft around the welds so it bends easier, but I'd prefer bent before broken - and some reenforcing in the right spot should make it quite a bit stiffer than it was to begin with, so I wouldn't expect bending to be a problem anyway. (Might be worth mentioning I'm at best a amateur at welding, so it wouldn't be a bad idea listening to others who actually has done stuff like this.)
Reply:Originally Posted by G-sonElectric welding tends to produce welds that cool (too) quickly because of the cool metal around it, behome hard and sometimes crack easily, O/A welds are done slower with more heat spread around the weld and slower cooling, producing softer welds. That heat ofcourse can cause other problems with warping or softening steel, but one problem at a time... I would have ground off the old welds, O/A welded the cracks and added some kind of reenforcement to take the load off the cracked area. It might become soft around the welds so it bends easier, but I'd prefer bent before broken - and some reenforcing in the right spot should make it quite a bit stiffer than it was to begin with, so I wouldn't expect bending to be a problem anyway. (Might be worth mentioning I'm at best a amateur at welding, so it wouldn't be a bad idea listening to others who actually has done stuff like this.)
Reply:Astounding! I've  never seen a cast Iron Mattock before.  Must be made somewhere that makes bad tools.  Mac
Reply:You might still be able to save the shovel. Where you got that blob of weld, sort of do a bunch more of that on both sides being / moving further out from the actual cracked area. In effect the shovel is a lot thicker in that one area. Say something like inch or more width, the wider maybe the better. Bunch of welds. Trying to get area coverage instead of thinking about welding the actual crack.Then using a belt sander smooth it up overall and feather the edges of the expanded weld areas so it all flows smooth together with the rest of the shovel but don't try to grind down to the original thickness overall. Leave it bulge a lot higher in the middle of the weld thicknest. Your shovel will have a thicker bulge area where repaired but if shaped right won't affect its operation.Heat treating could be nice but might not be necessary. Lot of times when repairing tools I on purpose make the repaired area thicker / wider and then reshape it with flowing lines to blend it all back into the overall tool. The final repair does not have to look exactly like the original.
Reply:You called it a shovel but it looks more like a flat spade to me. Some of those want to bend in the blade area if you lever spade cuts in the ground with them too hard. Eventually probably cracking. I got one that will do the same, had to start to use extra care in using it. Building up some vertical reinforcement strip the way I said before could be useful in helping to prevent the bending. If it is bending you are using it wrong or too aggressive.
Reply:Originally Posted by CosmicRamblerYou called it a shovel but it looks more like a flat spade to me. Some of those want to bend in the blade area if you lever spade cuts in the ground with them too hard. Eventually probably cracking. I got one that will do the same, had to start to use extra care in using it. Building up some vertical reinforcement strip the way I said before could be useful in helping to prevent the bending. If it is bending you are using it wrong or too aggressive.
Reply:Originally Posted by Tool MakerAstounding! I've  never seen a cast Iron Mattock before.  Must be made somewhere that makes bad tools.  Mac
Reply:Perhaps cast steel then? Bends rather than break - but it has its limits obviously... Either way, even cast iron can be repaired, and on a simple thing like that preheat/slow cooling won't be rocket science. Here's a little training I did on a scrapped cast iron cylinder, knocked off a flange and built it back up again using nothing but a Henrob O/A welder and old cast iron piston rings as filler. Should have preheated more and stuffed it in insulation after welding to keep it from cooling too fast, but even cheating with those rather important steps it turned out strong (held up to alot harder hits than the one that broke it initially) and soft enough to be machineable.
Reply:Originally Posted by G-sonPerhaps cast steel then? Bends rather than break - but it has its limits obviously... Either way, even cast iron can be repaired, and on a simple thing like that preheat/slow cooling won't be rocket science. Here's a little training I did on a scrapped cast iron cylinder, knocked off a flange and built it back up again using nothing but a Henrob O/A welder and old cast iron piston rings as filler. Should have preheated more and stuffed it in insulation after welding to keep it from cooling too fast, but even cheating with those rather important steps it turned out strong (held up to alot harder hits than the one that broke it initially) and soft enough to be machineable.
Reply:No I don't think what you are showing is called a trench shovel. Those are usually constructed in a V shape.Trenching shovelhttp://www.gemplers.com/product/1713...-2&CID=25SENTGWhat you are showing is a common flat garden spade. They come in a variety of configurations, some with flat nose, some rounded, etc. The better ones have a tapering thickness down the blade and either a grooved or tapered extension down into the blade from the handle area. Makes it less likely to bend. But they are made for light weight garden work not something very rugged.Anywho, I think it could be fixed to some extent the way I sezs before. Part of it is using the right tool for the right job.
Reply:Originally Posted by CosmicRamblerNo I don't think what you are showing is called a trench shovel. Those are usually constructed in a V shape.Trenching shovelhttp://www.gemplers.com/product/1713...-2&CID=25SENTGWhat you are showing is a common flat garden spade. They come in a variety of configurations, some with flat nose, some rounded, etc. The better ones have a tapering thickness down the blade and either a grooved or tapered extension down into the blade from the handle area. Makes it less likely to bend. But they are made for light weight garden work not something very rugged.Anywho, I think it could be fixed to some extent the way I sezs before. Part of it is using the right tool for the right job.Originally Posted by tanglediverOh the drama!  Clean the extra weld off of that, wire wheel the cracks, and oxyfuel weld it. I'ld go with R60. In the absence of a gas torch, and only having an AC machine, try 3/32 6011 on the low side of its range. You may need to avoid running a full length bead because of the heat input. Grind out anything that bulges out too much. When you get done, then look into the whole heat treatment thing.
Reply:I seen a good episode of the show "how It's made" where they showed how shovels are made. It showed how the metal was treated it was many steps involve and they explained why they did each process.
Reply:The only real question I have is why the hell you dig so damn many trenches. I hae dug maybe three, and that was three. Ore than I ever cared to dig.