Fair price for cylinders.

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One of my customers has some cylinders he doesn't use and I've offered to take some off his hands for a reduction of his latest repair bill.I'm trying to figure what is a fair price for both of us.One I'm really interested in is a 280 cf oxygen.  It's 9" in diameter and 50" to the bottom of the neck ring.  I'd like to get this one and swap it for argon.He also has a 125 cf oxygen and a few 100 cf acetylene cylinders.If anybody knows going rate or fair price for other sizes, go ahead and post 'em.  Just keep it short and sweet so others can find the info easily in the future.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Buying cylinders of unknown sources can be a bit risky. If it's a lease only size you won't be able to exchange it and will be out your investment. If there's no company label on the neck you are safe, but if there is a gas company name on it you need to check further. What you should do before buying these is to check with your LWS to see if these are exchangeable or are considered "leased only sizes". Around here the 125 cf would be OK for exchange, but the 280 cf would be a lease only size. I'm not sure about the 100 cf size acetylene but think it might be leased as well. If they can be exchanged, they are worth as much as new, but I have bought several of the 125 size off Craigslist for $50-100. If the neck ring label is for a gas supplier that has not merged into a larger supplier, then you may also be able to exchange it. I have had a few of these of various sizes and have exchanged them with no problems.. National Welders / Airgas has a tank size listing for their leased tank sizes and another size listing for the owner tanks. Maybe you should find a copy of this before proceeding. It's in their catalog, but may also be available online.  Other LWS may have different rules, so check with your's before proceeding.CharleyMiller MM252Miller Bobcat 225NTMiller DialArc HF / DIY Cooler2 Victor O/A TorchsetsMilwaukee 8" Metal SawMilwaukee Dry Cut "Chop" Saw 5 Ton Wallace Gantry Various Grinders, Benders, etc.
Reply:Dont know about swapping - thats gonna be between and your supplier.  Seems like we have some funny folks up north - I have never seen or heard of a lease only size, outside this forum.  Hell, I have 3 #5 acet tanks one is leased the other two are owned.  I keep 2 300 cf O2's on the truck next to one of them - I  have four more at home - some of those are lease some are owned I add owned cylinders when I find them - just slip them in with the leased and swap the out.  As long as I stay in westairs' territory then I am good to go.As far as value, that will change locally as well, around here - a 250-280 O2 will run $125-$175 in fair used condition as long as theres no owner ring and its in date,  add an owners ring or get beyond hydro and that value drops quick.When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives.
Reply:I'm a drop dealer for Westair and the key thing for you SRO is that you have a lease for that size. In those sizes they are lease only with Westair. But if you have a lease for that size you can slip them into the mix. As long as you don't swap out more than you have leases for at one time you're good.   As far as Airgas and Praxair (Westair) goes in this area anything 155 cu ft. and below on high pressure cylinders can be considered owner bottles. As for acetylene goes it's a AC3 (about 80 cu ft) and below for the same rules. Bigger than that can sometimes be gotten around by having a lease for the same size cylinder as stated above depending on how friendly your LWS is.   When I as dealing for Airgas I could slip the larger bottles in as long as they had the right name on the ring. This was due to the fact that they didn't require me to get a name for anybody exchanging cylinders. However Westair makes me write out a invoice with the name of the lease on it so you have to have a lease in the system for me to swap them.Last edited by irish fixit; 07-09-2012 at 04:59 PM.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:Don't take this the wrong way guys, but.....Price, I'm looking for a fair price.As far as I know, we can own any size around here and I have friends that do own the bigger ones.  I already own all of my small ones.  I was planning on running the cylinder in and if they'll swap it then it's mine, if not then the deal's off.So....Fair price....Looks like SRO is saying $125-175 for the big one if they'll swap it.Anybody else?My name's not Jim....
Reply:I have bought a few used owner tanks 125 cf gs and the 100 cf act owner tanks and never pay more then $100 for in date tanks, $50 for out of date, but in good condition.
Reply:I can't say fair price for used but I do know that currently it's going to be $400 or more to buy a replacement 280 cu. ft. tank via Westair. I've had to price replacements for stolen tanks lately is how I know.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:Ok, I'm going to hijack my own thread here since irish mentioned stolen cylinders.I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the whole cylinder ownership deal.I inherited some of my cylinders from grandpa.  I purchased others myself from a LWS.  Although I got a receipt for the ones I purchased, I don't have any way whatsoever to prove ownership of any cylinder I currently have in my possession.  I know the cylinders have serial #'s, but I just don't see somebody going back 15 or even 50 years tracking each swap to determine the original purchaser.  That is if they even write down the serial # when the cylinder is swapped.  Some of my cylinders have blank neck rings, others say Airgas, and in the past I have had cylinders with all kinds of different names on them.  The guys swapping them out don't make any effort to give me a blank one for a blank, or an Airgas for an Airgas.  So what gives?It would be a lot easier to track if cylinders were actually filled rather than swapped.I know Airgas won't actually sell me a cylinder and I'm not interested in renting or their "lifetime lease".  That's why I bought my cylinders elsewhere.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Owner bottles should not have a name on the neck gas bottles should have a 6R stamped in them. Act bottles a 1R stamped and no suppliers name on them.
Reply:The LWS i deal with exchanges owner bottles for owner bottles or you can leave yours and they will refill them. I know alot of places that will just swap them out with their bottles, bad thing with this is if you go somewhere that checks and its not their bottle no exchange, This can be a real hassle when you travel alot for work. Not nearly as big of a deal if you go to the same place all the time.
Reply:There are some companies that do keep track of the serial numbers. I know that one supplier not to far away keeps bar codes on there cylinders and will question you if you don't bring back the same cylinder. Another supplier that used to deliver here did the same. On the other hand when I was dealing for Airgas they didn't even ask me who I sold cylinders to. As long as it had there name or the name of a company they had bought out they where happy.   There has definitely been a increase in cylinder theft around here lately. I know of at least three in the last couple of months.  I've tried the sending in and getting back the customers cylinder. It's a disaster for me. We never did get that customers cylinder back and I just had to give him another cylinder from stock. There's just to many truck swaps and people between me and the fill station.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:I'm cheap and won't go over a hundred bucks for any cylinder.Hypotherically if one had a lease-sized cylinder and a buddy with an account who might exchange it for an owner-sized cylinder that could be convenient.
Reply:I can buy bottles from my LWS for about $1 per cuft, and I'm guaranteed they'll exchange them.  If I buy questionable cylinders I'd expect at least a 50% discount from the LWS price.My LWS will exchange just about anything.  Turn in a "bastard" bottle, get back a "bastard" bottle.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:You know I thnk filling cylinders is really a local or regional deal, with some overall guidelines.Around here I deal with two outfits as as long the cylinders aren't leased or USAF, USN OR US ARMY stamped on them they exchange no problem They do know me and I don't even think they check the bottles.I just saw a 250 cf oxy for $125 on our local craigslist. ( thinking about buying is as I just bought a new one for $270.He also had a 250 argon for $125
Reply:Freds answer is about the same as it is out here, in this loction we have several WS''s that have 3 or 4 stores and will swap out COT's any time.  But if there is a name on the ring they wont, although I have known some LWS's that will take in the tanks then grind off the other names right or wron they do it.  As far as prices for a 330 with gas around here would be a couple hundred and down from there.
Reply:Here(knoxville, tn area) I recently bought 2 bottles off of CL.(CL ad said 150.00 full ) Both were 125 cf bottles one was airgas, one unknown,( 1 partial(airgas), 1 empty (unknown) When I went to the local airgas dealer, I must have looked like a thief????   I was told that they couldn't do anything with the bottles unless I could come up with paperwork for the bottles. ( they couldn't even fill them, without paperwork)Long story short, I contacted the seller of the bottles, he went to his LWS ( Airgas in Chatanooga ) bought 2 new bottles( full ) and exchanged them for the ones he sold me, I was happy to pay the difference. BUT he was Pi$$ed at Airgas for the hassle to both of us.My point is, The LWS can refuse to fill/refill bottles, we don't own them if we can't get them refilled!Vanstill pi$$edLast edited by van37725; 07-11-2012 at 12:47 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by van37725Here(knoxville, tn area) I recently bought 2 bottles off of CL.(CL ad said 150.00 full ) Both were 125 cf bottles one was airgas, one unknown,( 1 partial(airgas), 1 empty (unknown) When I went to the local airgas dealer, I must have looked like a thief????   I was told that they couldn't do anything with the bottles unless I could come up with paperwork for the bottles. ( they couldn't even fill them, without paperwork)Long story short, I contacted the seller of the bottles, he went to his LWS ( Airgas in Chatanooga ) bought 2 new bottles( full ) and exchanged them for the ones he sold me, I was happy to pay the difference. BUT he was Pi$$ed at Airgas for the hassle to both of us.My point is, The LWS can refuse to fill/refill bottles, we don't own them if we can't get them refilled!Vanstill pi$$ed
Reply:I got lucky, back in the late 90's I bought a bunch of empty "K" cylinders for $20.00 ea."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"