Questions for a book I'm writing

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I'm writing a mystery novel and have a couple of questions about welding.  The story is set in the oil patch in West Texas where welders and welding trucks are plentiful.  A welding truck is found abandoned after being shot up and torched.  A local welder is brought in to see if he might recognize the truck or be able to give some clues as to who built the bed.  He discovers the bed has been built with a hidden compartment, possibly to be used to smuggle dope.Here are my questions:1. One of the ways the welder recognizes the possibility of a hidden compartment is by noticing some areas where hinges have been welded on the other side of the exterior of the bed.  Assuming the bed has been painted, would some variation in the surface of the steel still be visible to let him know there might be something like a hinge welded onto the other side of the surface?2. If the answer to #1 is yes or possibly so, is there a term welders use to describe what this does to the metal?  I've seen the term "heat stain" but I assume this applies mainly to stainless steel surfaces that haven't been painted.Thank you to anybody who takes the time to read this and respond!
Reply:I don't think you'd see "heat stain" show up on  mild steel after a truck has burned.  And the truck bed most likely would not be stainless steel -- although mild steel shows those coloring effects more than stainless.  What you're calling heat stain happens at pretty low temps so I'd think a truck on fire would wipe this out.  It is also a very thin oxidation and if the paint burned off, it would take off any coloring.Now, if the welder who put on the hinges got really good penetration -- or maybe a bit too much, you can see some slight warpage of the flat surface or dimpling on the back side of the weld that would follow the bead line.  This could give the outline of the hinge that's on the other side.Good luck with the novel.Bob
Reply:Originally Posted by cottonchipperI'm writing a mystery novel and have a couple of questions about welding.  The story is set in the oil patch in West Texas where welders and welding trucks are plentiful.  A welding truck is found abandoned after being shot up and torched.  A local welder is brought in to see if he might recognize the truck or be able to give some clues as to who built the bed.  He discovers the bed has been built with a hidden compartment, possibly to be used to smuggle dope.Here are my questions:1. One of the ways the welder recognizes the possibility of a hidden compartment is by noticing some areas where hinges have been welded on the other side of the exterior of the bed.  Assuming the bed has been painted, would some variation in the surface of the steel still be visible to let him know there might be something like a hinge welded onto the other side of the surface?2. If the answer to #1 is yes or possibly so, is there a term welders use to describe what this does to the metal?  I've seen the term "heat stain" but I assume this applies mainly to stainless steel surfaces that haven't been painted.Thank you to anybody who takes the time to read this and respond!
Reply:Thanks guys, I really appreciate the help.Mark Cotton
Reply:I would think the possible warpage of the steel from the heat may show some thing easer than some weld heat staining,when I have seen a burn out car usually there is some major warpage of the metals,one may see some differences of heat shielding by the "compartment"  the picture above is small but one can see the diffidences of how hot some places got.small pictuer of a welding truck that burnthttp://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townn...review-300.jpgthis one is intresting as one can see the wind direciton and the driver door is nearly untouched, click on each picture for larger view of it,http://goingsouth2009.blogspot.com/2...150-burnt.htmlreally burnt this one down,http://www.flickr.com/photos/theecce...ra/2560595612/Last edited by Farmerboy; 07-10-2012 at 12:37 PM.
Reply:Thanks for the photos.  You've got me re-thinking the whole "torched" idea.
Reply:Originally Posted by cottonchipper... You've got me re-thinking the whole "torched" idea.
Reply:its common for drug smugglers to weld hidden compartments into fuel tanks and such.  just an idea.   and other components such as vacuum resivoirs, A/C dryers, Transmission pans etcTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:You should have 2 Weldors at the scene so they can start arguing over whether or not it is Ok to have the welding bottles on their sideEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by caldwellcplI don't think you'd see "heat stain" show up on  mild steel after a truck has burned.  And the truck bed most likely would not be stainless steel -- although mild steel shows those coloring effects more than stainless.  What you're calling heat stain happens at pretty low temps so I'd think a truck on fire would wipe this out.  It is also a very thin oxidation and if the paint burned off, it would take off any coloring.Now, if the welder who put on the hinges got really good penetration -- or maybe a bit too much, you can see some slight warpage of the flat surface or dimpling on the back side of the weld that would follow the bead line.  This could give the outline of the hinge that's on the other side.Good luck with the novel.Bob
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermike... Whats the name of the book?
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeX2. Whats the name of the book?
Reply:when the metal warps from the heat you may see the outline of a box welded to the inside of a panel... there are several possibilities, the metal warped around a "square" or "rectangle" shape outline showing something was mounted behind it purhaps?....miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1You should have 2 Weldors at the scene so they can start arguing over whether or not it is Ok to have the welding bottles on their side
Reply:I agree with turbocad, I would believe there could be an outline of a box in the warped panelDynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:I wouldn't post it if I were you. We'd just argue over whether or not his wood rack needed gussets or what color the heat staining would be at a the specified temp.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumIt was a Dark and Stormy Night.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumIt was a Dark and Stormy Night.
Reply:Im not buying into this , " Im writing a mystery novel and have a couple questions ..." bit. Why would anybody reading a mystery novel (girly's) even care about welding details? It sounds more like  narco antics to me. No offense cottonchipper. cottonchipper? where do you come up with a name like that? Cotton isnt chipped. Ifn I remember correctly and someone correct me if Im wrong but cotton is picked with a cotton picker kinda like a combine or corn pickerWhen I lived in Texas, they had a FIFTY pound rule. That is; for first offense under FIFTY pounds of motavation, you get a misdemeanor slap on the wrist and small fine. Over FIFTY and its Federal.  Lots of welding trucks but used for welding. Ive already said too much and havnt even had my Bud yet so enuf said. I woulda maybee beleived it ifn it was for a movie but not a girly novel.
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideIm not buying into this , " Im writing a mystery novel and have a couple questions ..." bit. Why would anybody reading a mystery novel (girly's) even care about welding details? It sounds more like  narco antics to me. No offense cottonchipper. cottonchipper? where do you come up with a name like that? Cotton isnt chipped. Ifn I remember correctly and someone correct me if Im wrong but cotton is picked with a cotton picker kinda like a combine or corn pickerWhen I lived in Texas, they had a FIFTY pound rule. That is; for first offense under FIFTY pounds of motavation, you get a misdemeanor slap on the wrist and small fine. Over FIFTY and its Federal.  Lots of welding trucks but used for welding. Ive already said too much and havnt even had my Bud yet so enuf said. I woulda maybee beleived it ifn it was for a movie but not a girly novel.
Reply:Ok, your cool. Some times the truth is stranger than fiction. A quote from an old movie about the cotton fields of Arkansa. I watched it last night from a Friday or Sat DVR recording. The Iron Maiden.BTW I didnt inhaleLast edited by Insaneride; 07-10-2012 at 09:31 PM.Reason: BTW
Reply:Originally Posted by cottonchipperA movie?  Why didn't I think of that? Mark Cotton -aka- Cottonchipper (a collector of casino chips - Google the nickname)(You can also Google "Two Bits Four Bits" my first girly novel)
Reply:Hinges arent required and from what Ive learned is that weldors like secret compartments fabbed into the bed to keep their wallets, money, keys and lighters etc. safe while welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideIm not buying into this , " Im writing a mystery novel and have a couple questions ..." bit. ....
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Sounds like a good read- going to add it to my list.ZTFab, coming from you, thats a compliment. Thank you. Sorry to dissapoint you but that was one of the names I used for  one of my dirt bikes. It seamed worthy for the beast. Hell, Im not even wreclus, usually.BTW, Im learning to put on the brakes here and every where.
Reply:Kudos for doing the research.Far too many authors screw up a really good yarn by showing unforgivable ignorance of easily researched technical matters.Welding metal really well, always involves significant melting of both parts so that they truly become fused together.  Welding something behind a flat sheet will often show warpage or blisters on the opposite side.  These can vary from being a very slight discoloration of the metal to huge scabs where the welding may have almost blown a hole right through.Paint would tent to hide it, but a keen eyed Sherlock Holmes (such as your hero) should have little difficulty in uncovering the plot. Here is a picture of the REVERSE side of some test welds.Now this is a very thin sheet.The effect on a much thicker truck chassis would not be anywhere near so extreme.On the left you can see that paint would easily cover the heat marks.On the right there is a huge mound of weld that paint would not cover.More here:http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/power-settings.htmI think you could make a strong case for your hero to spot that some welding had been carried out without too many groans from professional welders.Last edited by Warpspeed; 07-11-2012 at 12:27 AM.Cheers,  Tony._________________________________Transmig 310 + Argoshield LightOxy acetyleneOxy propanePrehistoric stick welder_________________________________
Reply:Okay, at the risk of wearing out my welcome, I'm back with another question.  First, let me set the scene:An abandoned welding truck is found.  The bed (or some part of the bed) has been made like a big upside-down flat box sitting on top of a smaller box mounted to the chassis, with empty space between to hide dope shipments.  Of course a shop crane or something similar is needed to raise up the top of the bed to load or unload the dope.  Once the dope is loaded a couple of plates are welded from underneath the truck to "seal" the bed closed.  Our detective and his welder buddy notice these plates and also notice they have been cut.The questions are:  If somebody knew about the dope shipment and wanted to open the hidden compartment out in the middle of nowhere, how would they do it?  Would they use a portable plasma cutter to cut the seals, and if so, would it leave any telltale sign behind, like cinders or bits of metal underneath the truck?  Or, would they be more likely to use some kind of mechanical saw, possibly leaving metal shavings behind?  Remember, they're working underneath the truck.Assuming the dope-hijackers had help from somebody with a well-equipped oilfield welding truck, is it likely the truck would have some type of winch powerful enough to raise the top part of the welding bed and steal the hidden load of dope?
Reply:What kinda dope are you talking about?
Reply:Originally Posted by cottonchipperOkay, at the risk of wearing out my welcome, I'm back with another question.  First, let me set the scene:An abandoned welding truck is found.  The bed (or some part of the bed) has been made like a big upside-down flat box sitting on top of a smaller box mounted to the chassis, with empty space between to hide dope shipments.  Of course a shop crane or something similar is needed to raise up the top of the bed to load or unload the dope.  Once the dope is loaded a couple of plates are welded from underneath the truck to "seal" the bed closed.  Our detective and his welder buddy notice these plates and also notice they have been cut.The questions are:  If somebody knew about the dope shipment and wanted to open the hidden compartment out in the middle of nowhere, how would they do it?  Would they use a portable plasma cutter to cut the seals, and if so, would it leave any telltale sign behind, like cinders or bits of metal underneath the truck?  Or, would they be more likely to use some kind of mechanical saw, possibly leaving metal shavings behind?  Remember, they're working underneath the truck.Assuming the dope-hijackers had help from somebody with a well-equipped oilfield welding truck, is it likely the truck would have some type of winch powerful enough to raise the top part of the welding bed and steal the hidden load of dope?
Reply:Originally Posted by cottonchipper... (You can also Google "Two Bits Four Bits" my first girly novel)