Stick Position

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So I am in my second year apprentice schoolin' period and I am working on  getting rock solid on my plate test skills.  Overhead Position has always been a struggle so I have been burning the plates up in that position. Bevel with backing strip.          So at first I am welding going away from me with the rod angle pointing back at me with my arms underneath the whole mess, unbraced because in that sort of position it's pretty much impossible. I can't really even see where the rod is going and my arms are constantly catching all sorts of fire (OUCH) and my welds look horrible. The Root alone makes me want to hurl.  After several really crummy looking plates that weren't worth bending I figure some thing has to change. The stinger was killing me, holding it out away from my body whilst pointing back at me, trying to maintain arc length etc, it just felt 100% wrong and the results looked it. I have to look down the weld to see both sides of the puddle to insure I am getting in to both plates evenly.       I get a fresh set of plates and I change the angle of approach for the rod. I push the puddle from the same side I am standing on, straight down the bevel away from me.  Low and behold a super slick root. Then some incredibly slick passes that are exactly where I want them to be because I am holding the stinger close (it's pointing away so no fire falling on me), and I can see where it's going and have great control over the whole mess. It feels right and looks awesome and the slag is falling off before I finish the stringer, the toes are clean, no undercut etc.                  The Journeyman Instructor (21 yrs of Boilermakin' and the best weldor I have seen yet) comes in my booth and is ask why this plate looks a millon times better than the all the others.  I tell him and he says that's wrong, have to drag, can't push. He says something about Porosity and slag inclusions.  From somewhere in my memory I pull up Backhand and Forehand positions and then I show him that pushing Verticle up is the exact same thing as what I am doing in the Overhead. The rod angle in relationship to the puddle is exactly the same thing so how is it wrong in one position and right in the next? Nobody holds the rod pointing down in the verticle and tries to drag it uphill, that would be crazy.                 I have looked through all my text books amd even googled it but all I see is O&A welding in reference to backhand or forehand. I am sorta confused. I didn't cap the plate yet but will tommorow , this one I will bend. Anybody have any thoughts on rod angle/approach in overhead stickwelding? Sorry for a long post but I tried to tell the whole story.Miller ThunderBolt AC/DCMillermatic 130XPDewalt 4 1/2Dewalt RecipCE Chop Saw3rd Period Boilermaker ApprenticeLocal 454, Chattanooga TN
Reply:Treat overhead welding just like flat...you drag the puddle along. No different....its jut over your head instead of laying in front of you.
Reply:When welding vertical you have gravity to help keep the slag from getting trapped in front of your puddle, not the case in overhead.  You should be dragging.When I did my 4g plates I welded them just like I did flat, standing to the side and pulling across my body.  I can see why your having such a hard time with everything flying in your face.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:My vertical up is very close to straight in so it basically is dragged. With vertical up you do have gravity pulling the pool down so a slight push is really a drag.  On your overhead I don't see how you would get that much stuff on you if your hand was ahead of the puddle.Tough as nails and damn near as smart
Reply:You can help  your arm from getting so tired by putting the stick in the end of the stinger, pointing straight up, which lowers your hand in relation to the weld (untill the stick is almost done), then bracing your elbow with your other hand.  Also, throw the cable over your shoulder so all you're lifting is last couple feet of it.  Weld accross, but stand to the side, so the berries fall on your arm, but not not your whole body, which also keeps your lens cover plate out of the berries and helps you see better for longer.   Like everyone else said, drag it like you're in the flat position, except upside down.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Hello fellow weldors, thanks for the responses!  I bent the plate today, did 3 strips, cap twice, and root once. One of the cap bends had a few little black speckles from me not having  flashlight to really look up there and get everything spick and span, got in hurry and that never pays. Looked like the second to the last stringer on the cap needed some more TLC. But nothing broke/cracked and I ran the ram all the way till the strip came out the top of The Heartbreaker.        I have heard the over head is just like flat except upside down and that is of course true. I have tried the stick straight out the stinger and that is what was so dang awkward. The way I pushed it I had it 45'd coming out the stinger the exact same way I would do a verticle up burn, this felt real comfortable and triggered all the muscle memory that I have developed thus far, sorta of an autopilot deal in some ways.             I have tried the standing to the side and go like that but it has never ever been something that rendered anything near acceptable for me. Mostly I didn't tie into the plate on the opposite side as that I couldn't really see that side of the pass.              The lead over the shoulder trick has been in my stable for awhile, I always test standing up so I sorta lay it behind  my neck so it won't fall off midweld and cause me problems.              I will be taking these plate tests over and over for years to come and I am  trying to hammer out what is going to be my tried and true method of passing. This plate bent good, the ghost image of the root pass was dead center of the bend, That made me feel pretty good considering that was the first time I had even tried it that way. But if it is professionally/technically/theoretically unsound/unacceptble to weld that way regardless of outcome I am still screwed, not this time but some day when I am boomed out trying to hire on a Big Money Job in Timbucktoo I get looked out cause it ain't right by their standards and I ain't one of their boys so who cares. Common Arc...well it don't take much to have you "to the house" fast and they always put you on Over head right off the bat. I asked a few other apprentices and a few had been doing the same over head "push" and didn't know it was no-go.Miller ThunderBolt AC/DCMillermatic 130XPDewalt 4 1/2Dewalt RecipCE Chop Saw3rd Period Boilermaker ApprenticeLocal 454, Chattanooga TN
Reply:theyre right, backhand and weld it like its flat. backhand and forehand apply to all manual welding processes. Attached Images