Frustrated Fabrication

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I am just curious, but do most welding jobs have a great deal of fabrication?i recently received a job, and being fairly new to welding (only one semester, only know how to stick weld) and they hired me.     They taught me how to mig weld and all that and basically taught me everything i know up until now(ive been working there for around 2 1/2 months).  When i started the job i didnt even know how to use a vise grip... haha  well anyway im having trouble lately with a lot of the fabrication and "basic" construction knowledge that they seem to assume i know.     I keep making little mistakes here and there that they make me feel pretty bad about because im holding up the project getting done. For example, i accidently cut some peices of metal to the exact size, but it needed to be just a little shorter so it would have room to fit. No major mistakes yet thankfully. I love the welding and fab. so far when i can do it correctly but i just feel like im not ready for this type of work yet.        So im kind of wondering if it took anyone else a while to get the hang of things too?
Reply:If they haven't run you off yet..... they see "something" in you.My Dad raised me saying "Son, do something even if it's wrong"..... I did lots of things "wrong".... Every time I did there was a lesson to be learned.As you make those little mistakes you will learn lessons in welding, fabrication and life. What your employer does not want to see is the same mistake over and over again.Remember, there's no such thing as a "Dumb" question. Communication is the key to a successful, on time, on budget project. God gave you two ears and one mouth.... There was a reason.Some of us were crawling around our Dad's work shop at a young age and things came natural. Others did not have that opportunity and had to work at learning a trade.Measure twice and cut once. Before you know it you will be able to fabricate in your sleep.....Hang in there.HoboLincoln SA200's... at least 15 - 20. They come and go. Growing partial to the "Short Hoods" in my old age. Last count on Short Hoods was 13 in possession.
Reply:My company name has "Welding and Fabrication" in it.Fabrication is a huge part of a weldor's responsiblity. Thank your stars they are teaching you and being patient. This part of your career is priceless. I rotate my weldors to cutting, cleaning, deburring, machining, beveling, straightening, ect. Gives them a break from the monotony of laying beads. Good luck to you.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Thanks for the encouraging words.  Its not like im going to give up or anything im willing to learn and am ready to make mistakes.  I just feel uneasy because its all so new to me.
Reply:I also think it is important to keep a big picture perspective with what you are doing. You'll certainly need that latter as you advance. What I'm trying to say is that when you have to cut something can you make another piece out of what's left over? If I take an extra 5 minutes here will the guy who follows my work save 20 min. How can what I do, however small a task it may be, help the overall project all the way through completion.
Reply:Stick with it. A wise man once told me " If it was easy everyone would be doing it". Fabrication of certian things is still a mind twister for me. If you don't try you'll never know. Look at it this way think about what you know now that you didn't a week ago.
Reply:I wish all the new guys that come to work in the factory I work in were more like you. You know that you dont know and thats a good thing. Like hobo said, try to not make the same mistakes more than once.  Just keep at it. Think every thing through before you lay out your next cut. Look for ways to improve in every thing you do. Always remember that you are there not only for your paycheck but more importantly you are there to make the company money. An employer cant keep any one on the payroll that doesntSafety 3rdGump
Reply:yeah that's the kind of job you can make big leaps forward in the construction industry if you hang in there.  If you feel "on edge" or "inferior" while you are there but are sincerely trying at what you're doing, you're at the right spot and you have the right attitude to learn alot !.  When you feel like there's nothing left to learn there any longer, then it'll be time to move on.
Reply:I hate to say it, but probably 1/2 the kids coming out of the tech schools today  probably can't do basic fab to save their lives, so you aren't alone. In some ways it's not totally their fault, they never had any basic shop classes like they used to make all kids take. When the graduate, they can weld, but most are totally lacking basic assembly and fab skills..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:The fact that you made that post puts you far far ahead of most people, because they don't care. You do.Miller diversion 165Miller mig 211Hypertherm pm 30Milwaukee 6230 14 inch chop sawMd 45 mag drill (RIP; fell on its head)New MD 45! Thanks to the esposa!Finally got an O/A setup
Reply:You learn by making mistakes. Keep at it!Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:I'm a pipe-fitter by trade, I took welding in high schools, and a 5 yr apprenticeship in the fitters  my high school welding teacher told me something that has stuck with me.  " if you are not making mistakes, your not doing nothing "  my apprenticeship coordinator told me something while in the apprenticeship "  if there not talking to you, or messing with you  they don't like you" he used a little bit more colorful words then that.   you can ask anybody on this site , 9 times out of 10 if you make a mistake in the weld and fab, you can fix it.  at the same time this is not a trade for thin skin, don't take thing personal!
Reply:Mistakes? who hasnt made them? As long as you learn from them your on the right track. Yuo guys mentioned crawling around your dads shop growing up. For me my dad died shortly after I was born so I never knew him, but Mom had all his carpenters tool still in the basement. I took some shop clesses in school like DSW mentioned, and quickly learned when I got hired out building houses that this wasnt for me. I wanted to run the back hoe! For you to make this post shows, at lest to me, that you want to learn. Sounds like you employer sees something in you to be teaching you the trade. For me I love to learn new things al the time, now Im learning to weld from my friends that have been welding all their lives. I make many mistakes in welding and at my job, but as long as you learning from the mistakes, your doing fine.Learning one rod at a time
Reply:As a teacher, I tell my students "you only learn what you didn't know from your mistakes".  During our lecture & skills laboratories, I can teach the basics, then with practice they learn the muscle memory to continue to do the skills correctly.  I also teach them to "make a decision" in regards to whatever task they have to do.  Nothing frustrates a client more than to have the caregiver hem/haw around thinking of what to do next.In your case, continue on, your learning as you go & any good bosses will see that.  As long as you don't make the same mistakes over & over.  Cut a part too long?  Well, that's better than cutting it too short.  You will do fine, "just make a decision".MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:there are places that have people who do the "fabing" and the welders come behind and weld the tacked together project,  and all the welders do is weld and weld and weld, and the grinders come behind them and grind and grind and grind,  (the grinders are the new guys who have not become accomplished enough to be welders yet, (in the place I am talking about, my son worked in this tank building factory), my son is working there again and he is the shell roller,  he rolls nearly 40 foot long  8 foot wide sheets of steel in to tank rings, and does the seam weld, on them,
Reply:Very well said hobo.
Reply:Fabricating is one of those things that takes time. Overtime youll learn when to give yourself a little room and when to leave it tight. Some guys can do mitres in their sleep me I have to turn the piece and look and try to visulize and sometimes still screw it up. A tape measure and knowing how to read it is important. As said earlier ask questions. Find out what the tolerences are is it a 1/8" or a 1/4" than you know. The longer you are in a shop the more you'll know how the shop is runMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:I knew a guy that said "not much you can do if you're born ugly, so get to work on the ignorant thing kid".  We all start from little, as long as mistakes still bother you, then you will improve. Some day a mistake may be expensive - own it, don't let it break you - and get on with things. Good Luck!Matt
Reply:What? You mean not everyone is perfect and never makes mistakes like me? Like the others have said. Learn from your mistakes, ask if you do not know and keep at it. On the other hand dont expect somebody to hold your hand every step of the way. Take it upon yourself to learn to do what is needed. There are buttloads of info on this very site to assist a person in building just about anything. Everything from towel racks to trailers to bridges. Just about everybody learns something new every day. Except "that" guy, who has seen it all, done it all and knows it all. And nobody likes "that" guy... He's an a$$hole. If you cant fix it with a hammer, it must be an electrical problem."Boy, everyone starts with a full bag of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty."-Grandad circa 1990ish
Reply:Im working in fabrication since 2 years  plus  1 year at tech school, since i've done school i have never done a ''real'' welding beads on any assembly during 2 years, only fitting, and i know exactly how do you feel with your mistakes.I can't give you the secrets of the trade like a old man could do, but i'll tell you the most important to start!First, be very very friendly with old man at work, even if they make fun of you because you do mistakes, be friendly and let them show you ''how to work'' things that you don't know, and even things that you already know, old worker love to impress young freshman, thats make them happy, and in exchange you stole their tricks and tips and knowledge !Don't assume that you are a professional in nothing, im working in shops since 2 years and there's few things that i can't do really good and i keep saying to forman and boss that im a ''beginner'' and ''never done that before'' its sounds funny but its better than impress your boss this way than assuming you are a pro's and making mistakes!its sounds boring but after couple of months/years you can start to change a bit your attitude step by step!also important thing, if you just cut all your materials and start assembly and you find a mistakes that is totaly your fault (cut a wrong measurement, take a bad measurement, a wrong fitting..)instead of being scared and stressed out and sweating, look for a good solution to fix it and tell your boss that you admit your fault!Calculator > Bevel Square
Reply:One last thing, i know that a LOT a people will hate me after this but, in MY opinion if you want to work a serious critical weld on pipleline and outside construction, or pressure vessel or wathever you want, doing welding with certs can be good! but to me, if you like working in a shop like you do now, and your boss put you into fitting and fabrication and drawings reading, you have way more interest to stay there, i don't know nothing about your job aera and wages, but here in quebec canada, being a fitter in a shop get you better wage and less welding fume in your nose!Calculator > Bevel Square
Reply:Originally Posted by larphead.......................Just about everybody learns something new every day. Except "that" guy, who has seen it all, done it all and knows it all. And nobody likes "that" guy... He's an a$$hole.
Reply:I quite agree with Layout....work with qualifications, if you don't have the necessary traning or  skills....get them, otherwise you're just fluffing your way through jobs that could ultimately fail and if not cause injury, could cause the shop you're in to get a bad reputation and lose credibility.In the early 60's I worked in a mixed product engineering factory, and during that period we had a number of Poles and Hungarian refugees come into the factory as "fitters"....never having fitted anything in their life, they took low wages and just banged away at anything that was on the bench.In the end we had to always keep our tool boxes locked up due to any tools on the bench getting picked up and carried of to do some job, not always designed to do, and rarely brought back again.I refused point blank even with the threat of dismissal to work with them, due to the mess and hash work I was "told" to carry on with.Many jobs ended up on the foreman's desk with the question, "WTF do you want me to do with this heap of sh!t?" I spat the dummy when I was told point blank to "assist" them while still doing my own work......telling the foreman that he was the supervisor and should tell them how to do it didn't help much either.I would never work with semi skilled workers on an equal basis....they always cause me grief.Apprentices are a different matter and I always bent over backward to help and guide them, even if they were not assigned to my care and guidance.......a five year learning cycle is something I could relate to and highly respected in someone who really cared to go the extra yard.I could not feel a deep regard for someone who practices eye surgery without the necessary medical background, yet at one place I worked at it was the task of the chargehand to dig metal splinters out of eyes with the point of a sharpened matchstick....I kid thee not, I saw it being "performed" without anaesthetic too.....the "patient" was also required to hold the magnifying glass up as the chargehand needed both hands for the extraction....LOL.....and to stop the "patient" blinking his eyelids were taped open with some insulating tape to his forehead and cheek.This practice was apparently very common in metal working workshops, even with grinding spark in eye injuries where the spark had burned onto the cornea and needed a "carefull" bit of digging to dislodge it. Ian.
Reply:Alex, you will never stop learning. Like others have said, just don't make the same mistake twice (at least not within the same week) and pay attention to everything they tell you and show you. 10 years from now you will be here still asking some question about some project or something. Just how it is.
Reply:Thanks for the positive input/info guys.  I'm trying my best every minute of every hour and learning a lot.  Its just taking a bit of getting used to lol.   The way i see it, like you said, was as long as they keep messing/joking around with me i figure im in good standings lolI did my first mistake in the shop i used to work right after my course 2 years ago, on my first week they gave me a drawings of some pit frame made of angles and flats,they said ''we'll see how do you manage this'' i understood the drawings easily, but some of my working method on where to layout holes to make it easy on the press drill, how to fix a small jig on the press drill, was a bit harder to figure out, then a old man (that now he's one of my friend) came to me explain with a rude voice ''i'll show you how to do it because you won't finnish it until the end of the day'' so he showed me how to do, and then i make the biggest mistake i never did, i didn't do the way he showed me, after this i didn't know i made a mistake, i knew it after 2 months, when i keep asked him questions on ''how to do it'' he's answer was ''well why you ask me how to do it, you seem to know it, you don't need to listen to me!''Calculator > Bevel Square
Reply:you may already do this, but if you show up early and stay a little late every day, you will earn the respect of older guys.  When you show up early, take a few minutes to practice or read up on your drawings so when everyone else shows up, you're ready with your questions.  When you stay late, fix your mistakes, take a few minutes of extra pride and do some cleaning and maintenance on your equipment.  Maybe someone's working a bit late and needs an extra hand to finish a job.  Tell them "Let me grind the millscale for you while you measure other stuff"  or brush and grind out weld slag.  I bet 10 to 1 they start talking sooner or later and show you things.I gotta agree with everyone here, the fact you CARE enough to post that question and want to learn and are humble enough to know what you don't know, is huge. You've probably figured out from everyone that none of us ever stops learning no matter what field they work in. Those that don't gave up learning, or are "that guy" that always knows everything. I'd like to say it's satisfying watching "that guy" f up, but really what I'd prefer is him stopping and admitting he doesn't know and asking to learn.  Wow, what a refreshing change.Good luck, bud.  I've been at what I do for over 20 years and I can't stop laughing at the mistakes I made. Those were the best things that happened to me. You'll do good work and be proud but get worried if every day it's easy.  Sumpin's wrong - you're either f'ing up or you're no longer getting better.ps, welding and fabrication are two VERY different things. Id' have been better off taking a fab class than the continuing ed welding classes.  Nothing like standing in your garage with a torch in your hand and materials in front of you and wondering "what the h-ell do I do now??"  to realize all you learned was some motor skills and things but nothing about how to build.  lol  welcome to Real Welding! Last edited by RodJ; 07-22-2012 at 09:21 PM.
Reply:It'll come with experience. When I first started, I was a regular mess, couldn't seem to do anything right.As others have said the fact that you care, is what makes the difference. If you analyze every job you do at the end, figure out what went wrong or could have been better and what you should do to improve it,  you will improve. If, like 85% of the guys I come across, you say good enough and are only concerned with logging 8 hours...you'll never improve.Look to the guy with the most experience for help...experience is always trump. Experienced guys love to see enthusiastic apprentices full of questions, eager to learn with a spark in their eye. They watch out for you and make sure you don't go too far down a wrong road before turning you around.Cockiness in a young guy, is a definite turn off to all.Last edited by Tinbasher; 07-22-2012 at 09:33 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by MarkBall2Have we met somewhere before Larp?  That describes me to a TEE!
Reply:Try this as approach. When fitting up and laying out take it upon yourself to check the fit up, and never say, sh!t I screwed up, just take the piece away and say a little tight i'll be right back. But hustle it out safely. If possible depending on how many people you work with, just try to keep any screw ups too yourself, and experience will come through your mistakes. I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:alext-09  -  Ease up on yourself, everyone you work with used to be you.   Opus
Reply:Thanks for all the positive support everyone i really appreciate it!Im gettin better everyday
Reply:Originally Posted by hobohilton EDITEDMy Dad raised me saying "Son, do something even if it's wrong"..... EDITED Hobo