Pics of my (gross) TIG welds

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SETUP------------------------------------------------------------------80A DC inverterscratch startWP9V style torch1/16" thoriated tungsten1/16" collet+body1/8" - 1/4" stickout15 CFH pure argon1/16" ER70S-2 filler rod#5 pink cupMetal is drops from 1/8" sheet shears from a local steel supplierPrep is grinding it to bright metal with a 4" angle grinder (only used for grinding this steel)Tungsten is prepped on a 7" bench grinder with a fresh 80grit aluminum oxide grindertip is about 1/8" long and finely pointed, with a very brief dulled end------------------------------------------------------------------When I'm welding I see things bubble out of the puddle and deposit around the edges.The black smut can be chipped off, and under it is almost mirror shiny metal.Also, the opposite side of the weld gets this really flaky dull grey scale that comes off with a light wire brushing.As you can see, I am not consistent yet.As I sit here I can hear it going "tink, clink, tink" (its been about 1.5 hours since the last bead)Please give constructive criticism regarding the black junk.I am not consistent enough for my welds to be criticized. Anyway, pics.Side ASide BLast edited by Taiden; 10-31-2010 at 04:05 PM.
Reply:If you are too hot, you can pull contaminants thru the steel from the back side. You removed the mill scale from the front, but could be pulling it thru from the unground side on the back if you are too hot. The heavy scale on the back tells me you are either running too hot, or are not letting the plate cool enough between beads which will act like you upped the amps.Try this. Grind both sides clean. Turn the amps down some or move faster to limit the heat input. You want just enough to get the puddle started, but not so much that its too hot. Make sure the plate has cooled between passes, either by dipping it in water ( not the greatest habit to form BTW) or better yet have a 1/2 dozen practice pieces so they can cool between beads. Try and do more than 2-3 beads, at one time and the plate will be too hot.This is also where a pedal would help some. You could up the amps to get the puddle started, and as soon as you got the puddle started you could back off on the amps to reduce the heat to the minimum needed to keep the puddle going. With out it, you will have to adjust your arc length and speed to control the heat making it a bit more difficult..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I grind both sides.I'll get a quenching bucket and give that a shot. I see your point about using more amps to start the puddle, and then using less to keep it going.A simple question: when should I add filler? (god that's a really open ended one)
Reply:If you get it hot enough to scale, the back side basically goes back to "unground" state. Does this problem occur with every bead, or just those after say the first one or two?.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWIf you get it hot enough to scale, the back side basically goes back to "unground" state. Does this problem occur with every bead, or just those after say the first one or two?
Reply:Originally Posted by TaidenIs this why people make those argon diffusing purge box thingies?
Reply:Originally Posted by TaidenWow. I just had a revelation. Yes, it always happens after the first couple beads. I thought it was contaminated tungsten, but I wasn't having any other contaminated tungsten problems. That makes so much sense now. So basically, since there's no shielding gas on the opposite side of the plate, when the weld puddle penetrates well it oxidizes on the back. On the first one it's not a big deal, but the second weld with good penetration pulls the scale from the first weld through, and that contaminates the front.Is that what you're getting at?It makes perfect sense.Is this why people make those argon diffusing purge box thingies?
Reply:Thanks guys! Less grinding means more time for practice. I ended up getting a used harbor freight chopsaw yesterday for $30. It cuts my coupons, so I'm happy. Beats the sawzall. I think it is about time for me to rig up a foot pedal.
Reply:if arc length is excessive, the puddle will not form quick enough, and you will get too hot with all the noted problems. with a properly short arc you can get  a puddle very quickly, move on and keep heat lower..
Reply:I'm sure my arc length could be shorter, but I swear I can't get it any shorter without contamination problems. My torch hand wavers up and down just enough to dip in.
Reply:Are you sure that they are TIG rods that you are using? looks kinda like what happens if you try to tig with oxy/fuel rods.  If not, then you could also be melting the filler rod with the arc and not the puddle, aswell as what you've already been told about arc length.
Reply:Originally Posted by Baila La PinzaAre you sure that they are TIG rods that you are using? looks kinda like what happens if you try to tig with oxy/fuel rods.  If not, then you could also be melting the filler rod with the arc and not the puddle, aswell as what you've already been told about arc length.
Reply:Here's a couple of beads for reference that I just quickly ran in my garage(left to right), ignore the bumps at the ends I had the slope out still set for thin stainless tube. Sorry about the picture quality, the top bead is a normal dip and move and the bottom one is walked.    About 150amps , 6mm mild steel (sorta clean) ER70s6 filler,  Red tungsten, 8lpm pure argon , no6 cup.Last edited by Baila La Pinza; 11-01-2010 at 02:28 PM.
Reply:god damn it hahaI have so much respect for guys who can TIG weld well.Takes so much skill.I have a long way to go.
Reply:Thanks for the compliment!   I'm not the best tig welder in the world, far from it, but I thought a quick foto reference might be of help.Keep practising and I'm sure you'll soon get the hang of it!
Reply:So I decided to only clean the metal with acetone and a clean rag, instead of grinding everything off.When running with no filler, this is what happenedAnd this is closeup of the smut.It's not from pulling scale through the back of the weld. It can't be. I can't figure it out.My rod is ER70S-2, and it says on the package that it's a "TIG" rod and doesn't require flux.I don't understand. I want to blame it on me, so that I can fix myself and become a better weldor, but I can't figure out how I am making this happen.
Reply:why don't you try some non-filler passes with a straight amperage? That is how I learned. Do 223r532 passes without filler.It almost looks like your torch hand is pausing when you dip the filler in.
Reply:Hey jake,I usually practice non-filler on a plate at the beginning of the day, and then go to practicing with filler.Check out the picture above. That was non filler.And yes, I keep mixing it up. No one has given me TIG TECHNIQUES 101 so I try to watch videos of people who seem to know what they are doing, and copy their basic technique.Some beads I am definitely pausing when I go to add filler. So is this the wrong way to do it?Also what is "223r532"?
Reply:Tig likes clean and shiney metal, you need to grind that mill scale off like you were doing before. Maybe an experianced TIG welder can weld over mill scale with some success on non critical welds, but as a beginer you're just making life hard for yourself.       Here's a quick explaination of one way to TIG weld..... Tungsten stickout on a flat weld no more than 3 or 4 mm.Arc length no more than about 3mm (less is better).Melt base material with arc.Add filler to FRONT of weld pool, slide it along the metal if it helps and only melt a little off the end of the rod with each dip, enough to give it a slight raised appearance.when it wets out (should take less than a second) move arc forward about 1/8 of an inch, the less you move ahead the tighter the rings in the weld. I like to move ahead less, but it depends on how you like your welds to look.Add more filler, as soon as it wets out , move ahead againRepeat.....There's nothing wrong with pausing, but as you get better you'll most likely want to be welding with more amps and it'll be a more fluid motion as the dips "wet out" instantly.PS Welding without filler is not really a good idea on mild steel.Hope this helps!Last edited by Baila La Pinza; 11-01-2010 at 06:39 PM.
Reply:Thanks Baila, I'll use your description when I practice more tomorrow.
Reply:Take a peek at some of Jody's videos at http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.comYou should be able to get a lot of valuable info from watching his vids.ChrisLincoln Pro Mig 180TMiller Spectrum 375
Reply:you're getting to hung up on making it look like a stack of dimes. You aren't going to get that look with that machine, and especially not with out pulsing. If you are going to be going to welding school they are going to teach you a totally different way to weld than what you are doing. You won't pulse the weld like that instead you will move the weld puddle up and down to fuse the 2 pieces together.
Reply:Hey I'm not concerned about stacks of anything, I just want a good TIG weld. A good, structurally sound, TIG weld. Right now I'm not getting that. I have never had anyone show me how to TIG weld, so I am doing it myself. Can you give me tips on how I should be doing it? I am a blank book and I'm trying to fill myself with good habits, not bad ones. If you can help me replace bad habits with good ones, that would be very very much appreciated.I will say right now that I switched over to a Miller Maxstar 150 STL and I love it. I am still getting the 'smut' problem here and there, but not as bad. My beads are MUCH better. Maybe it's the machine, maybe it's because the torch is more comfortable, maybe it's because my practice solidified when I took a couple day break. Who knows? Who cares? My tank is almost gone, so when I get a new one I'll be able to tell if it's me or bad gas. Seems like bad gas happens every now and then. We'll see.
Reply:Has anyone shown you how to gas weld? Tig is VERY similar. Same principle, but with electricity And the 233r454 was meant to be a large number for how many normal, fusion style welds you should do before filler. Somehow an R got in there.
Reply:Originally Posted by jakeaHas anyone shown you how to gas weld? Tig is VERY similar. Same principle, but with electricity And the 233r454 was meant to be a large number for how many normal, fusion style welds you should do before filler. Somehow an R got in there.Hi , i see u are quite intrested in tig welding , i'll try to help you with a litl info.forget about fusion welding, that will not get u far, u have to control the puddle with one hand and add filler with the other (a good welder can weld about the same with both hands) , fusion welding is offcourse used sometimes but 99% of the time u need to add filler .Then, it's very important to have an more experienced welder look at you while u're welding and corect you, just a couple of hours will get you a long way.Don't reinvent the wheel !!! Alone you will never become even a decent welder , you need to be trained by a profesional, just to get you good starting grounds then comes the practice wich can take years and miles of beads.Oxygas is like a slowmotion tig, some ppl learn tig more easy after learning oxy,  i know oxy welders who can't tig , but they do amazing work with the burner.Also , don't underestimate stick welding u can weld almost evrything evrywhere (including aluminium)learning one proces will improve the others too.p.s. there's nothing wrong with the weld(beside the drunken weave  ) in last picture, the glasslike thingies on the weld are antioxydants from the filler rod--------------------------------------------------------------www.becmotors.nlyup, I quit welding.. joined welder anonymous
Reply:Originally Posted by Taidenlet's just say R is a constant that equals five hundred bajillion, so you multiply 233454 by five hundred bajillion to get how many fusion style welds I should do. also, no gas welding.  i have not had that luck yet, I hope to though, as I would love to learn gas welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by jakeaI was taught by a career master welder. So I'm going to say that his methodology of teaching tig is the tried and true way- involving OA to tig fusion to tig with filler....
Reply:Oxy welding in the rain with cutting tip no filler do i get a cookie? Granted it looks like crap. Attached Imageshttp://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000825140116 Lincoln Weldanpower Model # AC-225/DC-210/6 portable,LN-25 suitcase feeder,Harbor Freight 80 AMP Inverter DC Tig
Reply:Well I've been practicing with the maxstar and all is going well. Still working on filling the crater with no amp control.