alum spoolgun issue

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never used this much on alum. since i got it, but i thought i didnt have the black smoke before.there shouldnt be black smoke....right?it cleans off easyI did this in that position, but the near end was me dialing in the wire speed.The other end is way better.....honest!argon 30cfh.035 4043 think it was about 22V and a lot of wire speedthe finger is cause Zap gives me sh!t if i use a coin Attached ImagesG
Reply:Push or drag?  Looks like drag.  Should be push.  Up your volts to 26-28.  Should 'hiss' when it's right.  Start/keep the gas flowing for a few seconds before/after feeding wire.Oh, and purge the gas hose if it hasn't been used for a while.  Takes longer than you think for the argon to make it all the way to the gun.  Make sure you are in fact getting gas to the gun too.  30cfh may be a little high as well.  I usually can run 20-25cfh successfully.Last edited by duaneb55; 07-28-2009 at 11:04 PM.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Gord,Couple things.With the .35 4043 I normally, for that type material, run about 23V and WFS of 550 IPM.Was that welded in the overhead as shown?At those settings you're into spray and pretty much limited to welding "in position" unless you are using a pulse capable machine.Those beads look really cold for spray.  Looks almost like short arc.With a true spray, you'll be running so fast you won't have those "ripples" in the bead.Try cranking it up and give it a whirl.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:thanks for the replies.I was more concerned about the smoke than the fine tuning.I sould take a nother pic as this one shows where i was setting the gun at the start.yes overhead, and no pulse.G
Reply:Whatya buildin'?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55Whatya buildin'?
Reply:IMO yes the black smoke is normal. The amount will vary depending on push or pull (gun angle to travel direction) Hotter will help reduce the smoke.
Reply:Spraying aluminum, without pulse, is an "in position" weld.You're fighting gravity with a very fluid puddle.You'll often get a "little soot" when mig welding aluminum.  If it wipes off with acetone, don't lose any sleep about it.As was mentioned, a good purge of the spoolgun will generally help.  Just for giggles, take some scrap and dial in the setup in the flat position.  See if that doesn't eliminate most of your problems.I may be wrong, but it looks like that culling table could be flipped without too much trouble.  If so, that bead will go much better.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:i got to say that most of the overhead spoolgun welds didnt look that bad after i got it set and the smoke cleaned off.It wasnt a critical part and was going to get covered up by more aluminum.and i never  did get more picswas pushing.going to get the 30A out tomorrow and play with it so i can speed uo the productionstandbyG
Reply:oh and i did purge it for a "while" id assume that the weld would really look like crap if it wasnt argon coming out?G
Reply:Gord,Ever think that's why they asked about purge?  (Just kidding)Overhead spray with aluminum is tough.  Never had much luck there.  Goomers always wanted to fall in my shirt pocket.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Way too much gas, drop it back to about 20.
Reply:this is some pics of the spoolgun welds that were covered with heavy black smoke after brushing with acetone. Attached ImagesG
Reply:this is some done at the same time before  the acetone.They were all done in position (as apposed to in this position)Thats a lot of smoke!I tried to push it, but it was hard to change the direction in there and keep the push.Should probably have worked into the corner both ways....hindsight!23.5V and a sh!tload of wirespeed. Sorry but my spoolgun has only numbers and i didnt measure any. and 22 (ish) CFH  .035 4043got one more to come.... Attached ImagesLast edited by gordfraser; 08-02-2009 at 07:32 PM.G
Reply:I did this one at the same time on the other side (the side that is seen) the work was turned 180 degrees and i had time to put a weave in. Same settings as before.There was still some smoke, but it was easy to clean off in that area.talking about the bead inline with my fingers.I was going to speed the job up and spoolgun the whole thing, but i thought that id have a better chance of making it look better with tig. now i'm still not sure Attached ImagesG
Reply:So why is ther smoke?is there a way not to get smoke?Id have to think that there is something in the process that doesnt belong there to make the smokebut there i go trying to think again...G
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIGord,Ever think that's why they asked about purge?  (Just kidding)Overhead spray with aluminum is tough.  Never had much luck there.  Goomers always wanted to fall in my shirt pocket.
Reply:How well did you clean the alum. prior to weldin' it? Was there any air movin', that could have disrupted the gas shield? Or like was stated, maybe too much gas/pressure. I was always told, it will take as long to prepare the "weld" joint, as it does to weld it. CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN                   GOOD LUCK!!!!Don't let that iron in your lungs, turn to lead in your @$$!!!!
Reply:No air movement.it was as clean as the stuff that i tigged...wothout any soot/ smoke.i only tries 30CFH to see if i could get rid of the soot. normally 20-25cfh.So Ironmower are you saying that you dont get any soot/smoke when spoolgunning Alum???G
Reply:Gord,Not a metalurgist but suspect that a lot of the soot depends on the wire itself.Also, spray arc welding of aluminum doesn't have the advantage tig does of "breaking up" the oxides from the DC+ cycle.Back to the wire, I've had differences in wire from the same manufacturer (same wire, different lot numbers) that welded considerably different.I have found that 5356 tends to run a little "cleaner" than 4043.  Have been told it has to do with the amount of silica in the wire itself.I just keep a rag and a can of acetone handy.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:You should be using 5356 wire to weld 5086H116. 4043 wire is to soft.
Reply:No, I get the smoke too sometimes, but I truly believe that there is contamination somewhere. Like SundownIII stated, it maybe "dirty" from the manufacture. I wouldn't worry about to much. It looks too me, you know what to look for. One other thing that I like to do, when spool-gunnin' is to pre-heat. Another benifit of the TIG     Good luck.Don't let that iron in your lungs, turn to lead in your @$$!!!!
Reply:Hey...new to the site. Been welding for 25 yrs, just started doing some aluminum mig in the garage. I have a Lincoln 200 power mig and bought a spoolgun with the wire feed dial in the handle. Can't seem to get that damn thing to lay down a decent bead. Voltage setting on machine has 6 or 7 ranges and i have no idea what the numbers(volts) are in each range.I have a chart to go by to get started as far as volts and wire speed. any help would be much appreciated.