spray transfer with flux core wire

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I have another thread going in the Miller section, but some of the questions I posed were specific to miller.  I have one question that is not Miller specific though.  Can you do spray transfer with flux core wire, without using any gas?  If so, is there a certain type of wire that works best for this?Also, should the polarity be DCEN or DCEP?  The spec sheets I've read say flux core should be DCEN.  But, I would think that spray transfer would only work with DCEP.
Reply:I have pulse sprayed self shielded flux cored wire with my 350P.   I used dcen and no gas, which is how that wire was made to run. No need for shielding gas with a self shielded wire.Always run the wire on the polarity it was made to run on.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:The mfr. will specify what parameters to use for each filler wire. I know that typical structural wires I have been introduced to operate in globular transfer.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I'm curious, do you remember the brand and product name of the FCAW-S wire you ran that was a spray transfer?All the FCAW-S wires I've worked with run at too low a voltage to achieve a spray transfer.  It seems to me that you have to have that argon rich atmosphere in order to achieve spray arc transfer.  I've seen several FCAW-G (gas shielded) wires that run in spray transfer.  But all of the self shielded FCAW products I know run in short circuit or globular transfer mode. Originally Posted by DesertRider33I have pulse sprayed self shielded flux cored wire with my 350P.   I used dcen and no gas, which is how that wire was made to run. No need for shielding gas with a self shielded wire.Always run the wire on the polarity it was made to run on.
Reply:It was most likely either Lincoln NR211 or McKay E71T-GS, size either .030 or .035.   The 350P will pulse-spray just about anything.   Whether those wires work with true non-pulsed spray, I don't know.   I normally run them in short circuit on under-1/4-inch material, typically with the Passport or MM175.  The original question was likely about true spray, so I probly shouldn't have chimed in with my pulsed-spray experiments.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Signal15,I guess I don't understand your fascination with "spray transfer".  That's based on the questions here and in the Miller thread.If you wanted/planned to do spray transfer, or plan to work with material that dictates it's use, then you bought the wrong welder.  As has been mentioned many times, the MM211 is NOT a practical "spray transfer" machine.Do you even understand where "spray transfer" is commonly used.  It is a very "hot" process and used on heavier material (generally 3/8"+) and, without pulse, is limited to horizontal (in positon) welds due to the very fluid puddle.You've got a great little welder there in the MM211.  Learn to use it well within it's design parameters.As has been said many times but bears repeating, "You can't use amps you didn't buy".On the other hand, if spray transfer is indeed important to you, I'd recommend talking to your LWS about trading the MM211 on a MM252 or better yet, a MM350P.  Hook up a bottle of 98/2 (Argon/O2) or 92/8 (Argon/CO2) and spray til your hearts content.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I've been debating about going with 90/10 next time I run out of 98/2.   90/10 is what the MM350P manual recommends for all processes steel.   The puddle is sometimes a bit too fluid out of position in pulse with 98/2.   I adjust it out and weld fine with it, but I think the 90/10 gas may be easier to use.  Just an observation.   I'm used to the 98/2 but am open to trying other mixes.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:DR33,When I first got the MM251 I used the 98/2 (Argon/O2) mix.  Performed well.  Very hot.After I got the Thermco mixer (Ar/CO2) I found it much easier to just dial up (no changing regulators, hoses, etc) a 92/8 (Argon/CO2) mix.  Been using that, almost exclusively, since I got the mixer.  I suspect the 90/10 mix will give you slightly more control of the puddle than you see with the 98/2.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:i use 90/10 with my lincoln 255 but used 92/8 for several years and really liked it very well. never used the 98/2 though.
Reply:I think I'll try either 92/8 or 90/10 next time, whichever they happen to have available.  They don't normally keep 98/2 around so if they keep one of the others around, that would be better for me.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Save yourself the trouble, and buy a mixer. http://cgi.ebay.com/Smith-proportion...d=p3286.c0.m14Since I've had mine,.......... I've never looked back, except for the regret that i didn't get one years before.
Reply:Desert Rider, we have mixers at work, most of the WPS' have us using 95/5 when spray is called for, this is just my experience but I have better luck erring on the side of less O2,sometimes I run 97% or 98% O2 and seem to get better results.When I have more than 5% O2 it starts to get a little more difficult to keep that perfect bead going as I move around corners and have to change gun angle or stick-out as reposition myself. The lower O2 percentages seem to make things a little more forgiving.Just my experience, this could definitely just be in my head Yup
Reply:Thanks guys.   The 90/10 and 92/8 mixes I was talking about are Ar/CO2, not Ar/Oxy.   The 98/2 mix I was talking about is Ar/Oxy.  Sorry for the confusion.  I do see what you're saying about the less oxygen, the more controllable the puddle.I think I may like to some day have a gas mixer, but mixing setup is not in the mix (pun intended) at this point in time.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:DR33,With regard to the mixers (they are great to have), keep in mind also it's not just the expense of the mixer itself, but the fact that you need an inert gas regulator (not flowmeter) and a CO2 regulator to feed the mixer.  Then factor in the hoses.  Adds up.  If you're using the 98%Ar/2%O2 you can get by with the regulator off your ox/ace.  The Smith mixers need about 100psi of delivered pressure and include their own flowmeter.After you get the Ar/CO2 mixer set up and realize how nice it is to have, then you'll want to add a mixer for dumping in a little helium into your Argon for a hotter tig mix.  Then you'll want a ..........................Get the idea.I've got three (2 Smith's and a Thermco).  Sure would be nice to have a three gas mixer so I didn't have to keep a 330 around of tri-mix for stainless mig.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Check this link for some good reading on spray transfer.http://www.weldreality.com/spray_transfer_above100.htm