building a tig cooler?

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i'm tossing around an idea of building a real cheap tig cooler..  i friend of mine had an old coke machine at his shop and it stopped chilling the cokes in the machine..  he called a guy that worked on them and he came out and replaced the entire chiller unit (guess thats what its called) with a more modern unit. the unit that was in it, from what i was told was a unit that was non-serviceable, it couldnt be recharged with freon and thats why it was swapped out to a newer unit... i told the guy what i was planning on doing with it and that i was going to cut it apart and just use the 2 radiators and fan and motor and he said all i would need to do is cut the tubing apart and replace it with hose to get rid of the orifices that turned the freon into a gas and add a fill bung and it would be a self contained cooler.. he also said if i wanted to run a tank i could do that also, i would just put one end down in the tank... i would also have to get rid of the temperature control on it and wire in a switch, or modify it to kick on according to what i would need...  the problem i run into is i know nothing about this thing.. i do know where to cut all the tubing and which is the inlet and outlet would be.. i also know where the orifice tubing is and what to get rid of..  all this seems doable to me.. my problem lies in i know nothing about the unit really..  i just know it pumps freon (liduid) turns it into gas through the orifices circulates through a condenser and a radiator that has a fan on it.. it was give to me so it could be an extremely cheap tig cooler.. heres some pics of the unit..
Reply:The only thing you may be able to use is the radiator.  From the rust in the last picture it looks like the tubes in the radiator are steel.  This will probably fill your torch up with rust flakes when you try to run it with water.  The pump is made to run with oil in it.  It won't be usable for a water pump.  It's probably already burned up anyway since they replaced it.  The fan is probably usable.  It should run directly from 110v AC.You'd probably be better off going to the junk yard and pulling a small radiator from some compact car, or a heater core.  You should still use this fan, just bend/weld up a shroud to fit the radiator.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:actually didnt pay attention to it.. i think it was copper though, and had been painted black...i'm with ya though, if it is steel i guess i could get a small condenser from a car or i have a couple transmission coolers on the shelf..
Reply:i have been thinking about possible pumps..  how bout a computer power supply to convert ac to dc and then use an intank electric fuel pump and and inline regulator.. a fuel injection pump should run around 50psi and could run an adjustable regulator if needed..
Reply:I am building a cooler as well.  I've got a  underseat heater and fan from a scrap school bus, but I haven't found a suitable pump yet, any suggestions on what to use?"The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:Do a search on this site for  DIY Tig cooler  and you will find a ton of information on making one, including pictures of the one that I built. There isn't much in that old refrigeration unit that could be used, except the coil and fan, but you don't need anywhere near that large a coil for a Tig cooler. Is it copper? Some are steel.1. You need to find a used (but working) carbonator pump. Maybe that refrigeration mechanic can help you with this. They are a very reliable pump designed to last, with sufficient flow and pressure for a Tig cooler, and are the type used in commercially made Tig coolers. You need to maintain at least 40-50 psi and 2 gpm to cool the torch properly.2. You need a radiator, but it doesn't need to be anywhere near that large. I used an aftermarket transmission oil cooler coil.  It can be copper, brass, stainless, or aluminum, but not steel. 3. You need an enclosed tank that will hold several gallons of liquid with bulkhead fittings at or near the bottom and a fill port. It also cannot be steel. I used the stainless 2 gallon tank that came with the carbonator pump that I bought of Craigslist. The base, tank, and pump are all that I used from it.4. You will need a bunch of pipe fittings and tubing that will cost nearly as much as a used carbonator. if you don't already have them. Brass, stainless, or plastic only5. You will need a fan to blow air through the coil. I used surplus muffin fans.Take the time to do it right the first time or you will likely ruin your Tig torch.CharleyLMiller MM252Miller Bobcat 225NTMiller DialArc HF / DIY Cooler2 Victor O/A TorchsetsMilwaukee 8" Metal SawMilwaukee Dry Cut "Chop" Saw 5 Ton Wallace Gantry Various Grinders, Benders, etc.
Reply:little giant makes a good pumpidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:I would try using a compact car radiator and see if I could get away without using an additional tank.  The radiator may be oversized but when is 'too cool' a problem.I don't know how well any fuel pump will work.  Gasoline isn't conductive so a lot of fuel pumps I've seen have bare conductors in contact with the fuel.  Most of them will probably corrode and quit working soon.  You might find a fuel pump for alcohol, but the price will probably make it out of the question.What about water pumps for RVs? These maybe too expensive, too noisy, and may require an air bladder tank to keep them from quickly cycling on and off.  You'll need a 12V DC supply.What about aquarium pumps.  These are great with water.  Most have magnetic coupling so they don't burn up the motor if they get jammed.  They probably don't put out enough pressure though.  They usually run from 110V ACDynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:little giant are submersable 110v made for yard ponds have used one for yearsya dont need a lot of pressure to cool a torchidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:What prop-dr said, I use the little giant in all of my mill and lathes, they give good service.LarryMiller XMT 304 CC/CVSyncrowave 180 SDLincoln PowerMig 255XTTermalDynamics 52Lincoln 305GComlpete machine shop to back it up
Reply:Hi, I am doing the same thing as yourself at the moment, using the cooling radiator and fan out of an old air conditioner( which will be overkill for the TIG cooler ). Had to find a pump and motor to run it. Built a 10lt holding tank out of aluminium and some ally fittings for the pipe fittings. A carbonator motor and pump setup would be ideal, however check the pumps pressure as some carbonator pumps are way to high (150PSI) which probably would damage your torch, should be looking for up to 3-5lt/minute flow at about 40-50PSI. The pressure relief on the side of some carbonator pumps is only designed for intermittent use and not as a continuous pressure relief, so if you have a high pressure pump you may want to work out some other method of pressure relief. Most pond/aquarium pump won't be suitable as they don't provide the pressure required, most of them have way to much volume but are not  high in pressure. But some others have built them with just those and they seem to work well, so who knows. I also added a pressure guage so I will know how much pressure is in the lines and a cheap $2 electronic aquarium temp guage to tell me the temp.The rust you may have is usually from the steel frame as most of the cores use copper pipes inside aluminium fins with a steel frame which is what usually rusts. Miller Auto Invision 456 + S-62 wire feederC6240B1 Gap bed lathe16 ft3 air compressor16 speed pedestal drillHafco BS-912 Bandsaw
Reply:have been using a little giant for 19 yrssure im on my 2nd one the first one woked for 10 yrsyou don't need 40-50 psi either ,,just enough to lift mine has a 11.8 ft lift cant remember the pressure( i ll go  look ) ok loolked didn't see any specs for pressureif you are recirulating YA don't need pressureLast edited by prop-doctor; 11-10-2010 at 07:55 PM.idealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:Originally Posted by prop-doctorlittle giant are submersable 110v made for yard ponds have used one for yearsya dont need a lot of pressure to cool a torch
Reply:just another thought... how bout a computer power supply, and a bilge pump.. could use computer fans on a small transmission cooler...
Reply:looked for old box mine is a,,,, E2 seriese2-38n www.justwaterpumps.com look under submersible new number is 500203-1-ALast edited by prop-doctor; 11-11-2010 at 01:38 AM.idealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:thank you prop-doc fopr the part number... greatly appreciated
Reply:might try this one from harbor freight..http://www.harborfreight.com/190-gph...ump-41287.html
Reply:can't say if it will last. just remember it will be pumping uphill sometimesthats why i use the bigger pumps sometimes i'm welding six feet above my machineya need lift ( mine is 11.8 ft liftidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:check this out... i found this while looking at different pump options..Little Giant PES-80-PW fountain pump (566714) link to page i found the picture and description http://www.pumps-in-stock.com/water_garden_pumps.htmlnow the habor freight 190gph..the webpage http://www.harborfreight.com/190-gph...ump-41287.htmlthe pic (same as in previous post) sure is an awful lot of resemblance..
Reply:next question is anyone know a good source for the little plastic or brass fittings?
Reply:and also... if i use mild steel sheet metal to build the tank, would powder coating the tank be good enough to counter the corrosion ?
Reply:Originally Posted by prop-doctorcan't say if it will last. just remember it will be pumping uphill sometimesthats why i use the bigger pumps sometimes i'm welding six feet above my machineya need lift ( mine is 11.8 ft lift
Reply:Originally Posted by jakeruI've also wondered why the industry standard for water cooled TIG torches seems to be "50 psi".  Is it just me, or does it seem overkill for just circulating the coolant through the torch.
Reply:I think its more likely that the cooler needs this much pressure to meet the volume demands which is actually what keeps things cool.  Lower pressure would be possible if lines were larger in diameter. However, this would decrease flexibility and practicality of the tig torch.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:found my condenser/radiator  it measures 18L x 6w and 3 inches thick..  tubes make 18 passes through it. copper tubes and aluminum fins. probably dont even need fans on it.. i'm going to mount 2 120mm 12vdc fans on it with a shroud.. Attached ImagesLast edited by brucer; 11-13-2010 at 12:05 AM.Get a 5 gallon part's cleaner tub (with a pump).  plumb it to your torch.  harbor freight had them for around 75 clams. I laughed my *** off when I first saw this setup, but it seemed to work ok.  Keep an eye on the water temp, & give it a rest when it gets warm.Buy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:My guess for the 40-50 psi is to keep enough coolant moving to prevent it turning to steam at the torch. Water expands by 1603 times when it turns to steam and could easily build enough pressure for the torch to blow up in your hand. Might only be an issue for high amperage welding, but the manufacture doesn't know what the end user will do with it.Millermatic 200Hobart Handler 120Victor O/A & Ramco BandsawLincoln 225 ACSnapOn AD HoodMiller XMT304/22AHypertherm Powermax 1650 G3Lincoln Idealarc DC600 w/Extreme 12 VSMiller Digital Elite "Joker"
Reply:If the return line is just an open end that dumps into the reservior, there shouldn't be a lot of pressure building up.  The pressure needed on the pump is probably just to get enough water to flow through the small passages in the torch.  If you get any steam it will flow through the passages easier.I'd put a thermometer in the return line and make sure the temp stays well below boiling.  If you look around at walmart in the kitchen section you can find a meat thermometer that has a shaft that's almost the same size as the small copper tubing (1/8" maybe. I'd have to look).  The compression fittings for the copper tube work well on the meat thermometer and make a tight seal.  Very cheap.... like me!Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:Here are pictures of the Cooler I'm working on. Tank is a SS tray and lid from Hospital Cafateria(cafateria was being remodeled). Coil and fan come from an drinking water fountain.  Pump come from a product dispensing(Pepsi) tank (from the same remodeling job).....all free!!Still need to get a water cooled torch and fittings.Does anyone know of a watercooled torch that will fit this ESAB?Thanks, James L. Attached Images
Reply:you might put a regulator and pressure guage on there, pump says 90psi, tig torches are rated at 50psi.. thats pretty much the same type pump i was going to use, think i'm going to go with a little giant, or the harbor freight fountain pump... your welder and cooler look good..where you hooking your torch up at?  i'm going to run my return line through the radiator then into the tank... gonna put my pump pickup as far away from the return line port in the tank...Last edited by brucer; 11-15-2010 at 12:01 AM.
Reply:I found a source for the SS steam table pans and lids.  4 inch deep pan. Three gallon+ capacity.http://www.webstaurantstore.com/4-de.../92220049.htmlFull coverhttp://www.webstaurantstore.com/full.../92277250.htmlRogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:Very cool SS chiller!FYI though:  Chillers on top of machines + leaks = big friggin dangerous messes..Buy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rog02I found a source for the SS steam table pans and lids.  4 inch deep pan. Three gallon+ capacity.http://www.webstaurantstore.com/4-de.../92220049.htmlFull coverhttp://www.webstaurantstore.com/full.../92277250.html
Reply:The 50 psi number that keeps getting thrown around here comes from the pressure relief valve (as stated in the miller coolmate manual). Chances are, pressure won't come near that unless there is a problem. And yes, flow rate is the key point.JasonXMT 350 MPA Dynasty 280DXSuitcase 8RC / OptimaSpoolmatic 30AThermco Ar / C02 mixerAssorted O/A gear
Reply:Jason - now that explanation makes sense!The follow-up question is, has anyone put a pressure gauge on their watercooled TIG supply line near the pump water output, and measured the pressure with the pump running and circulating through the tig torch?  And, what pressure did it actually read?
Reply:Originally Posted by jakeruJason - now that explanation makes sense!The follow-up question is, has anyone put a pressure gauge on their watercooled TIG supply line near the pump water output, and measured the pressure with the pump running and circulating through the tig torch?  And, what pressure did it actually read?