Any downside to using a long argon hose?

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Trying to reorganize the garage and right now there is no room for my welding cart (at least not of yet), so I was wondering if I can keep the argon tank at one end of the garage and run a long hose against the wall to the welder. I don't usually change the flow much, I try to keep it around 14cfh. Any downside to this?Also any downside to keeping the valve open full time or will it slowly leak over time?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:You should be fine, we are not working in a bio lab that needs the flow to be within 1/1000 of a cubic foot.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Hello Gamble, I believe there was a thread that touched on this subject not too long ago. You may be able to find it using the search function and see what all has been said regarding that topic. In short there are two things that are occurring when you are using a shielding gas system. You have pressure and you have flow. When you have a long hose and stop welding the hose acts like a reservoir and stores volume and "fills" until a particular pressure level is achieved that is determined by the particular flow meter/pressure regulator that your set-up is based on. When you again activate the gas valve on your welding feeder/machine you open up the valve and allow that pressure to drop and flow at a lower pressure to be achieved. You will feel or hear a puff of extra gas for a brief time when you first activate the gas system. Annoying possibly, generally not detrimental, and the waste of shielding gas is minimal. I would always shut off the shielding gas tank when you are not going to be using it for an extended period of time, you might have a small leak that could drain your bottle if it is not readily noticeable. Good luck and best regards, Allanaevald
Reply:i have 125 ft of argon hose for work and never had a problem.
Reply:I had no problem.  The only pita was trying to check the gas meter with the gas flowing.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Flow to the welder can be as long as you want it to be. Once the pressure is against the solenoid valve in the welder the gun gets it from that point and does not care how far the argon travels to that valve first.
Reply:I agree with Aevald you should close the cylinder valve when done. Any sort of leak will drain the cylinder quite quickly, especially a small cylinder. Usual culprit is the cylinder/ reg connection as guys often over tighter the nut and distort the seat surface or nick it. I lost most of a 125cf of argon about a month ago because I got a business call, powered down the machine, but then got distracted and didn't remember to close the cylinder until the next morning. Probably over 90% of the time I get cylinders that will hold gas pressure for several days even when shut down, but this time there must have been a very small leak at the nut that lets the gas bleed down slowly over night.The longer your lines, the greater the risk you will have a leak at one of the connections and loose gas. One option I have used with small machines and large cylinders is to use quick connects at the reg and machine and use a long line between the two. This allows me to leave the cylinder strapped to a wall or column and then just move the machine around within the area covered by the hose. If you do go this route, I'd invest in top quality disconnects. The extra money you spend will be easily offset if the connections leak and waste your gas..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:^I like that idea. What kind of disconnects do you recommend?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:I actually had a set of ones designed to be used on torch hoses that came with my suitcase feeder. They are like the ones designed to be used on OA hoses, but have the different fittings to match the inert gas hoses. they can be a PITA to get however and when I found a set they were NOT inexpensive. I think mine was originally rigged this way so the original owner could add extra hose to run from the machine on the truck to the suitcase as needed, based on how far he had to go, sort of like many guys do with their stick leads.Steve ( 7A749 here) used to use quality air disconnects on his rebuilds. Unfortunately he's not around here any more regularly to contact. I forget what brands he suggested when I discussed this with him over the phone a few years back. I do know he didn't like the ones from HF and the box stores. I have found the cheap HF air connections a buddy of mine uses, leak like a sieve. The cheapies from Depot/Lowes aren't much better when they wear a bit. I usually try to get the good ones for my air tools I always hook up and disconnect, from Parker Hydraulics. They seem to hold up better than most others I can lay my hands on easily. There's a Parker store not that far from the house and I use them for all sorts of things like plow fittings and fuel hoses, not to mention air connections. In reality you probably only need the set to attach to the machine. The hose on mine usually stays coiled on the cylinder, so the QD's there are not really needed. The easy way to do this would be to simply take the existing hose and cut the line, and use repair barbs to hook 1/4" NPT fittings on the hose. I have the guys at Parker do most of my "repairs" since they swage the fittings on and you get a nice tight seal with no leaks, not to mention the fact I don't have to deal with the stupid hose clamps getting caught on things when I move the hoses. It' costs a bit more, but the savings in ag factor is worth 10x the cost.You still need to close the valve on the cylinder when done however..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Yes, a huge downside to using a 125 foot argon hose. Especially the wrong kind.It you really want to do it as wrong as possible, use hose with at least a 3/8" ID, cheap**** rubber hose, and an argon/flowmeter with an 80psi output pressure.Do you even know what the output pressure of your flowmeter is?But on the other hand argon is really CHEAP!Helium is even CHEAPER!Question. Imagine you run a 125 foot hose, set your flow at 15cfh at the flowmeter, start a job involving 100 tacks on it before final weld. What do you think your flow coming out of the torch will be on every time you step on the pedal to do that arc?Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:I have about 200' of lead and argon hose zip tied together, the yard I work at has too much flow so I just put a screw valve near my quick connect that way I can adjust the flow at the gun :]
Reply:Originally Posted by justinTI have about 200' of lead and argon hose zip tied together, the yard I work at has too much flow so I just put a screw valve near my quick connect that way I can adjust the flow at the gun :]
Reply:Originally Posted by LarryOBefore somebody asks, this is what you use to adjust flow at the gun.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonYes, a huge downside to using a 125 foot argon hose. Especially the wrong kind.It you really want to do it as wrong as possible, use hose with at least a 3/8" ID, cheap**** rubber hose, and an argon/flowmeter with an 80psi output pressure.Do you even know what the output pressure of your flowmeter is?But on the other hand argon is really CHEAP!Helium is even CHEAPER!Question. Imagine you run a 125 foot hose, set your flow at 15cfh at the flowmeter, start a job involving 100 tacks on it before final weld. What do you think your flow coming out of the torch will be on every time you step on the pedal to do that arc?
Reply:here is some proof... these welds were xrayed.... and i used my 125 ft of argon hose and flow set at 80 psi... passed with flying colors   Attached Images
Reply:one more x ray for you same settings and same argon hose Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by gto_welder01there is no downside to using a 125 ft argon hose.  i do this for a living.  i work in pipelines and refineries  ther is no need for a pedal.  as for the argon flow, i alway set it at 50-80 psi depending on the wind conditions outside.  hell i've even had the helper accidentally turn up the flow to 150 psi and still passed x-ray.  all this crap about tungsten size, argon flow, length of hose, how you sharpen your tungsten, ect. ect. is to overated.. at least in the field of work that i do.
Reply:Originally Posted by gto_welder01there is no downside to using a 125 ft argon hose.  i do this for a living.  i work in pipelines and refineries  ther is no need for a pedal.  as for the argon flow, i alway set it at 50-80 psi depending on the wind conditions outside.  hell i've even had the helper accidentally turn up the flow to 150 psi and still passed x-ray.  all this crap about tungsten size, argon flow, length of hose, how you sharpen your tungsten, ect. ect. is to overated.. at least in the field of work that i do.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonHow do you accidentally increase your cover gas hose pressure to 150 psi?
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manWhere did you get that and who makes it?I use air hose/tool connectors made by Milton, which are top quality for general useage.
Reply:Originally Posted by LarryOJust picked it up at the local welding store.  Wasn't expensive and im not sure who makes it, but i did a quick search for ya and found on at Arc-Zone. http://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=7909
Reply:Originally Posted by gto_welder01this happend once when i told my helper to open up my bottles while i was in the pipe rack.. he was green and increased the pressure on the regulator instead of opening the valve on the bottles. and from the looks of my welds i would say i give a darn...and wps can also be overated...ive had qc's give me the weld procedure and then tell me to do the weld however i want as long as it passs NDT
Reply:Originally Posted by BCTimberwolfHe increased the flow rate, not the pressure. The pressure is set on the gauge at the factory. Big difference
Reply:This video explains simply the detriments of long hoses that increase pressurized hose gas and increased gas surging.[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqbXluxh3QE&feature=plcp[/ame]Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:so what do you do when your nearest argon bottle is 100 feet away?  tell your boss it cant be welded.The proper way to do this is to buy a constant pressure regulator to attach to the bottle, and a separate flow gauge without a regulator to be used near the solenoid.This way you don't have much line between the solenoid and the element restricting flow (the adjustment valve on the flow gauge).  You'll only have the "dump" of gas from the short line between the flow gauge and the solenoid.This would be similar to a setup with gas piped throughout the building.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:so what do you do when your nearest argon bottle is 100 feet away? tell your boss it cant be welded.
Reply:Originally Posted by AndyAThe proper way to do this is to buy a constant pressure regulator to attach to the bottle, and a separate flow gauge without a regulator to be used near the solenoid.This way you don't have much line between the solenoid and the element restricting flow (the adjustment valve on the flow gauge).  You'll only have the "dump" of gas from the short line between the flow gauge and the solenoid.This would be similar to a setup with gas piped throughout the building.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonThe price is good on that one but converting to CFH from LPM  was difficult for me, and my crew would hesitate to use it.I ended up purchasing a few of these which is calibrated to Argon CFH. It is twice the cost but we use them twice as much. See part #WAT PFMhttp://www.netwelding.com/prod02.htm
Reply:Originally Posted by LarryOThat would be a better unit for your side of the pond.  But even at twice the price, its still not that expensive and very handy to have.
Reply:Downside to a longer argon (shielding gas) hose?Longer purge time before you actually get shielding gas from the tank to the weld and more chances for leaks and/or damage to a long hose running all over the place.For 'picky' welds or welding procedures where the shielding gas flowrate really matters, you may (or may not) have issues where you have to purge the line before welding and then adjust the 'flowrate' to get the actual desired "flowrate" at the weld using something like the posted flowmeter.As to leaving the cylinder valve open al the time, in a perfect world with no leakage it wouldn't matter.  In the real world with a possible leak (even a pretty small one at any of the connections or from the solenoid valve in the welder itself), it would be best to just shut the valve at the cyclinder when not welding.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...