What's with the LWS Guys?!?!

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I am not sure about everyone else, but my LWS acts like they know what they are talking about but they really do not.I was in last Saturday looking into buying some 5356 TIG wire and the guys starts telling me how it produces black soot and smoke and the 4043 is the way to go.Knowing TIG, there really is no smoke from the process so I went back today and got some.  Tried it out and it was perfect.  No smoke, soot or anything wrong.This was the same guy that also told me when I first started TIG to use the same size wire and the material I am welding.  A few weeks ago I went in to get some 1/8" ER70S-2 and he handed me the 1/8" ER70S-6.  I checked it as I was walking out the door.  And this weekend, I got the wrong size collets which I caught at the register.Maybe help is hard to get now days, I dunno...Build a Barstool Racer at BarFlyRacers.com!
Reply:I know what you mean, i went into the LWS last week, and asked if they had any ceramic flap discs, and the guy looked at me like I was from mars, and said "we don't carry anything that isn't used by pipe fitters or welders."
Reply:i symathize with you, LWS around us is the same way.I personally think the individual selling equiptment should have a thourough knowledge of the welding that will be preformed with the products they are selling. Knowing that not everyone walking into a LWS is a seasoned professional makes sense of this statment. Although i can only speak for those in my area.
Reply:i went into a store I usually go to buy cheap tools and stuff this weekend, similar to harbour freight, its name is princess auto. I was checking out some of there small mig machines because i was curious about them. the one said it could weld aluminum so i flipped up the side door to see the settings, to see how thick it would do. but the aluminum settings were not under there, at this time the service guy came up ( a skinny old man with a pony tail) and asked me if i needed help, and i said no im ok just checking the settings to see what voltage was the max setting was, because it was labeled as a b c d e on the machine and wasnt familiar with that. well he got right up and rude, using a harsh tone as if i was an idiot with no business thier, he said voltage is irrelevent, all welding is only mesured in amperage, I was stumped, i didnt know what to say at fisrt. I told him it was a constant voltage machine, and he paused then said .... yeah.... I talked to a welder and he told me not to buy that perticular machine... So right there he admited he only talked to a welder and now he thinks he is one. So I said, what do i compare it to, all the other machines at work, and previous jobs and school have all had a setting for voltage because the machine wants to keep that constant voltage and there are other variables that can determine the amperage, then before i could finish he told me he didnt recommend any of the machines they sold, he said they were not for industrial use, I agree but how to you compare them without trying them out? so finally he admitted to he did not really know how to use the wirefeed welder and always uses stick when he wants to weld.  Hey anyone can learn to weld and i love to teach people, but you dont know what a stranger might know, and he should have approched me better. people can be so  these days.Last edited by Doug247; 03-11-2008 at 12:18 AM.Nothing Ever Got Done By Quitting, Never Give Up.
Reply:I miss the days of the small locally owned stores, that got run out of town by the big box stores (Walmart, Home Depot, Lowe, etc.) Sure, the auto parts store was kind of a mess, had the smell of grease, and the guy behind the counter often looked like he'd just slid out from under a car. But he knew what he was talking about and if he didn't he wasn't going to give a bs story cause his business depended on me and my friends coming back. Now we have five auto parts stores in a town of about 7000, and they could care less.I'm new to welding and glad I took a course at the local college plus did some research BEFORE heading down to my LWS. They had a good reputation over the years (being locally owned), but were bought out by Praxair. When I purchased my MaxStar 150 STH, they couldn't answer even the simplest questions and acted annoyed that I even asked. Fortunately, I had visited the Miller website so I already had a good idea of what I was ordering. When I picked up my welder, the guy loaded my tank while I was checking out. Good thing I looked before pulling away, he had loaded a tank of oxygen instead of argon!I returned a week or so later to purchase some tungsten electrodes and various size collets. They had a very dismal stock on hand and when I asked about getting what I wanted, the guy basically blew me off saying those weren't popular. In fact, he said that Mig welding has practically wiped out Tig welding all together. Needless to say, my LWS will only be used to purchase my welding gas in the furture and I'm even wondering about the wisdom of doing that much business with them.Yep, I miss the days of the locally owned stores.......Miller MaxStar 150 STHTIG Advice From Co-Worker - "Just don't burn a hole so big I can't fill it."
Reply:I dunno why stuff like that surprises people. You walk into any type of store and expect the people working there to be experts. If they were an expert in any field, why would they work as counter person at a retail store? Unless your talking to the owner, or the guy who's worked there for 50 years... Your talking to a dude making 10 bucks an hour running a cash register. Not the kinda guy I'm gonna expect to give me advice.I like to party!
Reply:Originally Posted by CaptainWillyI dunno why stuff like that surprises people. You walk into any type of store and expect the people working there to be experts. If they were an expert in any field, why would they work as counter person at a retail store? Unless your talking to the owner, or the guy who's worked there for 50 years... Your talking to a dude making 10 bucks an hour running a cash register. Not the kinda guy I'm gonna expect to give me advice.
Reply:Originally Posted by Shox DrI hear what you are saying, but these stores don't sell nail polish through to knickers, they sell Welders to Wire.We've just bought 2 new Kemppi MTL 200 Tigs ($5500+) we asked for WP9 heads (we only weld 20-25Gauge S/Steel)They have now brought us on 4 different occasions, parts to suit 17 to 26s and a few bits to suit 9s but still not a full head. Now these guys are the biggest welding supplies in a local city to us. (Im in England by the way) All the smaller outlets buy from them.maybe I've answered my own question, they have no need to care
Reply:If they knew how to weld they wouldn't be selling supplies.
Reply:One place I actually did get REAL help from an EXPERT believe it or not, was at Lowes.  When I needed to install the additional outlet for my welder and 110V service in the garage, I took the book for the welder to Lowes and I found a girl working in the electrical department.  I first asked her if she works in this department and she gave me some funny answer like I did not think a girl would know what she was doing.After speaking with her, she at one time was an electrician and had a lot of knowledge on electrical to where I had to go back home and get her the name of my breaker box and then went back and she got me all the correct parts to get the job done.So I do have to give it to Lowes for that one.  I only wonder how much longer before they hire inexperienced people.Build a Barstool Racer at BarFlyRacers.com!
Reply:My LWS is small and the guy there will tell you that he is not a weldor....period. But, he will not try to sell you on something that he has no knowlege of either. If he doesn't know, he gets on the horn and gets you the answer. I have given him many books and materials, which, he reads and understands. They ended up selling me quite a bit of equipment and are now good friends of mine. I think that more than anything this is a quality of individual problem. Annother bummer here is that when you find a good shop, it is hard for them to come near competing with the web on prices. I pay a little more, but, I still support them. Kinda expensive to send a 600# machine off for repair that was purchased off of the web. If I have any trouble, I call my guy and they handle it all for me. Done deal.Yeah, yeah, I know you are a weldor too. But, are you a good one?
Reply:I am lucky enough to have a great airgas that i do business with.  Sounds like I may have the only one though.  However it is a local business they bought out, and it still has the same guys in it.  I have dealt with some of the situations listed above, but I'll give these guys credit they always ask me what "I"  need rather than try to tell me.  They know I know more about it than they do, and I've even been in the store when someone asked them, and they rather quickly asked a me or another weldor for some insight.  It all depends on where you do business. I say shop around and find a place that feels right to ya.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:My local Airgas has staff that's pretty knowledgeable on welding.  Being that it is located in the same town as the largest chemical plant in the world (read: lots of tig/pipe welders) that may help a little.
Reply:Originally Posted by tresiIf they knew how to weld they wouldn't be selling supplies.
Reply:I guess I should count my blessings.As a new hobby welder I have an AirGas about 6 miles from the house, Toll Gas - local welding supply in the Minneapolis\St. Paul area about 10 and 18 miles from the house, and Oxygen Supply, another local supplier, about 20 miles from the house.And the best part is that at all the locations either (a) the person I talk to has a clue or (b) they know they do not have a clue and will contact an (a) person.
Reply:All I can say is I really can't complain about my LWS folks.  I have good relations with just about all the guys.   I use about 4  different stores.This one oldtimer keeps wanting to give me music demos  Music City ..right? weld it like you own it
Reply:Well, back home they were local owned and were great. Down here they don't even know what their products are. Airgas is useless. They won't even look up the number and order what you need even after telling them that Airgas carries it. Only interested in selling stuff with Radnor written on it.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:Depends on who's helping you. There seems to be alot of young salesman types that aren't always too helpful, but thats the way it is.I noticed that Praxair seems to have more knowledgable people as opposed to Airgas' army of new recruits.
Reply:Some of the welding suppliers are definitely full of it. Take PRAXAIR here in the Reno, NV area...the store is actually in Sparks, which is another town that adjoins Reno, but you can hardly tell when you go from one town to the next. ANYWAY, I went to PRAXAIR in Sparks yesterday and noticed that they had a yellow sign in the window by the door that, if you read the dang thing, won't allow you to go into the store if you have a cell phone that has a camera in it, a cell phone that will record, or if you happen to have a CCW and carry a weapon all the time as a personal policy (the logic here is that when seconds count, the cops are only minutes away). It prohibits other stuff, but you have to read and understand what it REALLY MEANS. The sign says that you have to have permission from the management if you want to bring any of the listed "prohibited items" inside, but when you try to do the right thing and ask for a manager, all you get is the stupid treatment. They say that the sign is just there because of "Company policy"......so there appears to be no reason for it, except that it is their policy. The sign is there, but makes no sense to prohibit customers from going in with any of that stuff because today most all people carry some of that all of the time, even if they don't realize it and the people in the store just shrug it off...... I don't know if other PRAXAIR stores have that same sign in the window or not, but would sure like to hear from any of you that have been in or around one of their stores elsewhere.Needless to say, if they are that screwed up there and don't care if their policy is just as screwed up, I will NEVER, EVER go in there again! My opinion is that anyone that hates large organization or company sponsored BS ought to not patronize their store, either.Last edited by dondlhmn; 09-03-2009 at 05:14 PM.
Reply:This is no surprise because these guys are not welders same thing at Home Depot & Lowes. Most retailers will not pay maybe a permanently disabled or retired tradesman to deal with customers. What they don't realize is a retired person isn't really looking to make alot of money but just trying to keep busy because they probably already collect some type of pension or even disability SSI. Life would be so much easier with qualified people filling these positions.Last edited by Sparky#1; 09-03-2009 at 05:34 PM.I.B.E.W Electrician and Damn Proud of It !!!! .Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit http://www.shrinershospitalsforchildren.org/
Reply:Doug247, yes Princess Auto and Acklands are the "Harbour Freight" of Canada, but my local LWS is Arrow welding Edm and I only need to tell them once what I need and it gets done.The problem is their is no support for employees, of walmart welding supply stores no workplace manual, product education what they picked up through osmosis from welders is what they know.
Reply:my lws actually has a knowledgeable employee..he welds and can help ..what i dont understand is , for years they operated out of a small block bldg that the mortgage probably ran out on 40 years ago.. a year ago they moved into trailers, knocked the bdg down and rebuilt it...modern looking building, more showroom, etc. i asked the owner howmuch he  thought it would increase his sales ...i said to him , " i come herre to by gas and rod..i still will do so... now others will come here to try out the machines so they can decide which one they wanna  buy  off the net ..becausae you cant charge enough  for them and compete with th enet.. and maybe then theyll come ehre for gas and rod like me...did the cost of the new bldg get covered by that added business?he didnt have much answer...i wish him the best.. i hope his prices dont go up to pay for this thing...
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadmy lws actually has a knowledgeable employee..he welds and can help ..what i dont understand is , for years they operated out of a small block bldg that the mortgage probably ran out on 40 years ago.. a year ago they moved into trailers, knocked the bdg down and rebuilt it...modern looking building, more showroom, etc. i asked the owner howmuch he  thought it would increase his sales ...i said to him , " i come herre to by gas and rod..i still will do so... now others will come here to try out the machines so they can decide which one they wanna  buy  off the net ..becausae you cant charge enough  for them and compete with th enet.. and maybe then theyll come ehre for gas and rod like me...did the cost of the new bldg get covered by that added business?he didnt have much answer...i wish him the best.. i hope his prices dont go up to pay for this thing...
Reply:Originally Posted by Doug247". . .its name is princess auto." . . .(a skinny old man with a pony tail). . ."
Reply:Well after reading all the comments about how bad your LWS is, I must say I feel very lucky.The closest city to me is Asheville, and there are 3 stores. National Welders/Airgas. Andy OxyMckinney Welding Supplies. I've only visited Andy Oxy once, they seemed pretty helpful, and knowledgeable, but are the least convenient location for me.I used to do quite a bit with National/Airgas while working at another fab shop.If you can get past the attitudes they're smart enough people, but every time I go there I get the impression they don't care one bit if they get my business, with one exception. One of their outside sales reps would try to take good care of us when we were looking at big ticket items. However he tended to drop the ball on small stuff and consumables. They were merged/ bought out with Airgas not too long ago and in my humble (ha ha) opinion have gone from decent to poor.Last is Mckinney.I can't say enough good things about them. They're and independant family run store. Most of the staff shares the same name as the business.They may not be weldors but they know welding supplies.For example when I was pricing new welder options looking to add Aluminum capability to my shop I checked with Nat and McK and on-line to get some ideas of the direction I wanted to go.I started lookig for a decent tig rig, but in the end chose to go with a spool gun since it would speed up production. Next I had to figure out if I could get one gun that would work with my Powcon and my Ranger.Nat. basically said it can't be done. That's b.s. what they should have said was we don't want to be bothered with the research.I checked with my local welder repair shop (M&L welder/generator repair, great folks) they said it's totally doable just bring both welders and the gun. He's set the plug to work straight to one machine and make up an adapter to work with the other.But they just do repairs and sell used equipment and didn't have any spool guns at the time.After some more research I started looking at a Passport Plus and Spoolmate 100. I realize that basically doubled the cost, but that setup would kill 2 birds with one stone. It'll mig Aluminum, and the portability would be great for rail installs, which are often inside. So I started shopping around again, including checking on-line prices for that setup.I called McK. and they were $100.00 CHEAPER than the best internet prices. That pretty much made up my mind, but I was still ciphering out all my options, and waited a while to pull the trigger on the purchase.Then McK called me. I hadn't asked them to. One of their salesmen took it upon himself to do a follow up call regarding the Passport/Spoolmate combo. Bear in mind at that time they did NOT know that I had been fabbing for the last 10 years, or that I had just opened my own shop. He was just doing what a good salesman should do, and followed a lead to the end.In the course of our conversation he learned about the shop, and where I'd been working prior to this. The next day he visited my shop to check things out. Turns out their gas truck goes right past my shop (25 miles from their store) once a week. And their prices on gas are the best in town anyway. They also run a consumables truck on a weekly basis and would start sending it by if I wanted them to.I told him it sounded great, gimme a credit app and we'll get things rolling. His reply floored me, he said "I don't have one with me, but don't worry about it we'll open your account right now."I'll bet you can guess where my shiny new Passport Plus and Spoolmate came from. It's worked well for them, too. They get all my business, and in 5 months I've spent... ...well let's just say that , so far, it has helped their sales pretty good.Brian LeonardAppalachian Ironworks L.L.C.434 Long Branch Rd, Marshall, NC 28753828 649 9966828 702 [email protected] used to have around 15 LWS around here that were VERY knowledgeable.  every one had a niche market they specifically catered to.   If you knew which one to go to you could get they exact advice you needed for any giving process.well that ended about 10 years ago when Airgas started swallowing them up one by one and turning them into another corporate America box store.   Theres a few old guys that for lack of a better word are stuck in the airgas system but unless you know them by name or have their personal cell phones you will NEVER find them in the system.We sill have 3 independent welding suppliers in the area that are SEMI knowledgeable but nothing like the old days.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:theyre used car salesman. now aws has come out with some gay certification for salesman. dont take their advice EVER unless you dont have a clue yourself. in our area they take advantage of people who dont know much about welding in order to get them to spend more money. do your own research.
Reply:I have a praxair right down from my house. I know a guy who owns a welding shop and the guy behind the counter gives me my buddys price on everything. I bought a miller 212 auto and he was 100 bucks cheaper than cyberweld. He gives me all my gas at a heak of a discount. Now as far as airgas that is 20 minutes away I have never dealt with them other than my brother gave me two 120 oxy owner tanks that airgas swapped out and gave him rental tanks. I went up there when one of them ran out and I told him I deal with praxair cause I get the gas cheaper and it is close to my house and to give me an empty cylinder. He said here take a full one and let me give you a credit app for your buddys shop to see if we can beat praxairs prices.
Reply:Originally Posted by app-ironworksllcWell after reading all the comments about how bad your LWS is, I must say I feel very lucky.The closest city to me is Asheville, and there are 3 stores. National Welders/Airgas. Andy OxyMckinney Welding Supplies. I told him it sounded great, gimme a credit app and we'll get things rolling. His reply floored me, he said "I don't have one with me, but don't worry about it we'll open your account right now."I'll bet you can guess where my shiny new Passport Plus and Spoolmate came from. It's worked well for them, too. They get all my business, and in 5 months I've spent... ...well let's just say that , so far, it has helped their sales pretty good.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hammack_WeldingI am lucky enough to have a great airgas that i do business with.  Sounds like I may have the only one though.  However it is a local business they bought out, and it still has the same guys in it.  I have dealt with some of the situations listed above, but I'll give these guys credit they always ask me what "I"  need rather than try to tell me.  They know I know more about it than they do, and I've even been in the store when someone asked them, and they rather quickly asked a me or another weldor for some insight.  It all depends on where you do business. I say shop around and find a place that feels right to ya.
Reply:I've been to plenty here in the Houston area over the years asking my share of stupid questions and have had pretty good service at just about all of them.  On numerous occasions I've even had a few refer me to their competition up the road because they'll carry a different brand or something they don't carry themselves.But... we're also talking about a pretty heavily industrialized area here with the refineries and petrochemical companies so they see a fairly steady stream of business too.No complaints so far in H-town.  FuelBoy-----------Lincoln SP-135 PlusLincoln Precision TIG 225
Reply:The local airgas and local independent store around here are both quite good. But the airgas store has stopped carrying half of its inventory.  I can't get my "blue beasts" any more with out a special order."I've bought a lot of stuff...at least they know me by name and I get a discount under my account.  Plus they siphon off about 300 bucks a year for tank rental.But they did goof the other day.   I went in to get some tig rods...I asked for tig rods, and really didn't specify which ones.  Any would have been fine for what I was doing.  Got home and they acted a little funny... I looked at the package...RG45I guess they need to stop trying to save money and turn on more lights in that store..so they can see.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by lugweld  Got home and they acted a little funny... I looked at the package...RG45
Reply:http://www.aws.org/w/a/certification/CWSR/
Reply:Originally Posted by BruceThat is the way it used to be, it sure would be nice if it caught on again. Who knows where this administration is taking us? But that is another thread best left somewhere else.
Reply:I deal with only one LWS and one sales guy only.  GTS Welco of Its the Frederick, Maryland and Jeff.  All the other LWS are a joke.  Jeff is the only guy that works at that store.  When he goes on vaction, I just wait till he gets back if I need something.  He has worked there 20 years and knows damn near everything.  I have actually called his boss and chewed him out about how much thier store sucks when Jeff isn't there.  Lincoln 300 Vantage 2008300 Commander 1999SA250 1999SA200 1968Miller Syncrowave 200XMT350MPA/S-52E/xr-15Xtreme 12vs Millermatic 251 w/30A  Millermatic 251 Dialarc 250 Hypertherm 1250 GEKA & Bantom Ironwokers
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammGOOD GOD ALMIGHTY, DO YOU DOODS BLAME A CASE OF DRIZZLY SH!TS IN THE MORNIN' ON THE ADMINISTRATION????????
Reply:Originally Posted by Leadhead1911Still better than a coat hanger, right?
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammGOOD GOD ALMIGHTY, DO YOU DOODS BLAME A CASE OF DRIZZLY SH!TS IN THE MORNIN' ON THE ADMINISTRATION?????????GET A LIFE
Reply:...Well.....here in Sacramento...California......only stores are Praxair and Airgas-NCN (Radnor)...seems they've bought up all the competition....and most the merchandise outside of Lincoln, Miller, Hobart or Esab, welding machines is imported from China....but bears high prices....  The only store guys that seem to know anything, are the older guys been there from 20+ years ago....I've been going into most all the local outfits for 25 years....pretty much just given upon asking any questions....I usually know what I want/need before I start driving over there...Dougspair
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammGOOD GOD ALMIGHTY, DO YOU DOODS BLAME A CASE OF DRIZZLY SH!TS IN THE MORNIN' ON THE ADMINISTRATION?????????Any time you walk into a store, there's a dood behind the counter willing, and sometimes helping you, to empty your wallet.  IT'S CALLED RETAIL SALESGET A LIFE
Reply:Bill,You aren't a welder so, you can't make an informed opinion about this...A lot of people here have had an experience of running into the lws to get what you need or calling ahead so that they will lay it out for you because you are in a hurry because your trying to get a job finished, or trying to get one started and you have already put a hard days work in a 100 degrees heat and 95% humidity, and really don't check what you have asked for or picked up because of the rush factor.  In and out so to speak...already charged to my account...stuff receipt into wallet and take off. But maybe you don't weld enough to know what that is like or don't even have an account at the lws...but it probably has happened to everyone at one time or the other at the lws or someplace else.And, YES,  IF you have a good relationship with a small town LWS THEN they do usually KNOW what YOU want and even know what machines you have, and know where you work, live, etc.  When they come in the truck drop off gas bottles or whatever at your business, they know what blend and size tanks you are using because they can see your purchase history or they know by memory which one you are using and you don't have to specify and usually have very few problems...My point was that since they have gone from Holox to Linde, to AirGas,  they have reduced selection and started implementing cost cutting features like having only a light or two on...When the rods are stored in a dark part of the show room, it is easy to make a mistake in where things are put and picked out.Last edited by lugweld; 09-23-2009 at 09:53 AM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT