Cost of GMAW vs. FCAW regarding consumables?

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Has anyone ever done analysis as to cost differential between the two based on consumables?Let's assume I am lap welding 3/16" mild steel plate using the same welder in both GMAW and FCAW modes. Now, is it possible that over the course of depleting one 80/C25 tank (20cf/h) that the premium I paid for flux-core wire (2x $$) would come anywhere near the cost of filling the tank ($30-$40)?Cheers!
Reply:When I first got into MIG welding I wondered the same thing. However when I finally got a cheap CO2 gas set up, there was no going back to flux core.Cost was no longer a factor because the what-you-see is what-you-get of gas welding is a huge advantage over flux core.  Also, no liquid spatter all over and no slag to beat off.  GMAW is way better from a visibilty point of view and much cleaner.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Thanks for the reply Rick V.Your view on the subject mirrors exactly my thoughts. I can understand there are a fair number of factors that can and should be taken into consideration. A couple non-preference being application and welding environment while preferential could include having to (or not) deal with slag, fumes, smoke and visibility.In my case I'm not sure I'll get much more than 2 hours on-time each year for the next couple so for me I'll likely just flux it for now. Haven't checked yet but am assuming either a lease or outright purchase wouldn't be the best choice for my expected amount of use. That said, I'm still am curious if anyone has done a cost analysis (as best as one can be done considering all the variables). Heck, beyond the convenience factor the more I think about it it very well might be cost effective even for my expected minimal use.I do kind of laugh at myself not expecting once I have a unit that everything I look at won't be a candidate for a bit of welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by golem...In my case I'm not sure I'll get much more than 2 hours on-time each year for the next couple so for me I'll likely just flux it for now. Haven't checked yet but am assuming either a lease or outright purchase wouldn't be the best choice for my expected amount of use.
Reply:Much appreciate the advice Rick V.Will definitely research and take the extinguisher tank into consideration. I understand Co2 alone isn't optimal (vs C25) but still far better than flux-core so I have no qualms in going that route. I'll also be sure to keep an eye on hydro date if I delve into used.
Reply:I would look around on Craigslist for CO2 bottles. The guy I bought my welder from sold me an extra 20lb bottle for $25, so some people don't know what they're worth. I then got a NICE regulator/flowmeter off ebay for $30ish shipped. I'm not sure whether it's any cheaper to run solid wire with CO2 vs FCAW-S but for my uses it's far superior.Lincoln 175HD
Reply:Hi, wait until you see the cost of running a plasma welder.....50 cents an hour ( 3,500 watts @ 16 cents per KWH) and the filler rod is whatever you have around.....no gas bottle rental or fills etc.Ian.
Reply:Thanks for the replies.Just got back from the LWS (Roberts Oxygen) and the sales rep there pretty much said that, even given inherant variables, the price they charge pretty much makes it a wash between the final cost per weld regarding FCAW vs GMAW. With their yearly cylinder lease pricing of $70 and $30-$40 (80-200 cf) for C25 it's hard not to justify going that route, even for a casual user like myself.
Reply:I run .045 hard wire and CO2 as my go to setup, cheap cheap and cheapDisclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWeldingI run .045 hard wire and CO2 as my go to setup, cheap cheap and cheap
Reply:What's a shop, lol. If I can get away with it, I always have a roll of 21-B on the truck. For the critical stuff I run E71-t.1 dualshield.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by golem.. With their yearly cylinder lease pricing of $70 and $30-$40 (80-200 cf) for C25 it's hard not to justify going that route, even for a casual user like myself.
Reply:I got to do a re design on a dirt sifter They built it wrong and i told them when they did it But last week the boss had to rake out the sifted dirt the laborer was off and he had to work his butt off so now he wants it fixed rightI'm thinking it's an old dumpster and i'm going to use 2x2x1/4 tubing and weld it with that spool of NR-252 rather than using 7018I been thinking about running fab shield 8 but keep reading mixed reviews on itI run a Q300 on my 12 RC so i have Mig and dualshield capability off my TB302It's also real windy where i'm going to be working Any info would be greatBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Originally Posted by killdozerd11I run a Q300 on my 12 RC so i have Mig and dualshield capability off my TB302It's also real windy where i'm going to be working Any info would be great
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VTrouble is that the years do roll by and surprise... 5 years later you spent $350 on lease charges alone - even if you still have the original cyclinder half-full of C25!  For a small user like me, leasing does not make sense.  Even here, $250 would buy me a 60 ft^3 full cyclinder of C25.Hard to find used cylinders here but in the USA... like slotard said, "I would look around on Craigslist for CO2 bottles."
Reply:http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/AWTC/Lesson9_2.htmIf you want to get down to the nitty gritty of the Costs Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Ok, I own my CO2 tanks, 12 bucks each to fill them and a 44 pound roll of .045 hard wire is 42 bucks, like I said cheap.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by golemYes sir, doing a bit of math and you may very well be right. I'm figuring on the fat side of 3-4 hours welding time with a 80CF. My LWS sells the 80CF cylinder full of C25 for $215, subsequent refills are $45. As an occasional hobby/DIY user purchasing one does have its merits. What would make even greater sense would be to go larger based on the greatly reduced price per cu. ft. but in an attempt to remain relatively portable 80 would be max.Funny, this thread was not started to be a determiner of what rout to take for shielding gas but simply a bit of cost comparison curiosity. Have to admit though that I'm glad it did morph as now I'll be going shielded and not solely flux. Again, much appreciate the replies!
Reply:Originally Posted by puddytatHi, wait until you see the cost of running a plasma welder.....50 cents an hour ( 3,500 watts @ 16 cents per KWH) and the filler rod is whatever you have around.....no gas bottle rental or fills etc.Ian.
Reply:Originally Posted by puddytatHi, wait until you see the cost of running a plasma welder.....50 cents an hour ( 3,500 watts @ 16 cents per KWH) and the filler rod is whatever you have around.....no gas bottle rental or fills etc.Ian.
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/AWTC/Lesson9_2.htmIf you want to get down to the nitty gritty of the Costs
Reply:Originally Posted by golemAs you say, seriously in the weeds. Have to admit I found it very interesting reading even from a non-professional standpoint. That entire manual is well worth reading through (and I can assure you I will as I've read and watched just about everything I can set my eyes upon) .The more I research it the more I have to wonder if a mix wouldn't be the better route for the learning welder. Based on the many instructional and user videos along with a number of side-by-side bead comparisons it looks much simpler to determine how the bead is being deposited. C25 seems to provide a noticeably cleaner arc sound giving a definitive thumbs-up to proper wire speed and amp settings.I'm happy to find out about these aluminum CO2 tanks and will surely invest in one for the convenience. I do see them being sold new for as little as $107 +shipping, haven't checked the LWS (or other outlets) yet. I'm thinking it'll be a two tank purchase -- Likely a 80CF/C25 to stay at home and an aluminum CO2 for remote work (or less picky at-home work).Again, thanks to all for the replies!
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Have you tried CO2?I use both- for a hobby dude I'll take CO2 all day long and I can always use it on a beer Chiller if needed
Reply:CO2 is way nicer than flux core as far as spatter etc goes, and significantly cheaper than C25. it's a great compromise.Lincoln 175HD
Reply:I should start another thread for this question but I figured here is appropriate enough...I have a line on a pair of 20LB Co2 tanks (aluminum with standard black safety crown) for $110. The owner says they were purchased a couple months ago for his daughter to use for aerating her fish tanks. I'm awaiting hydro verification. My question is, are these most likely in the proper configuration for Mig use (ie. liquid or gas feed)? I assume gas with no dip-tube is what's required. Since these tanks are clean and "purdy" I'd rather keep these tanks and not do the usual LWS swap. Having two will allow the convenience of not requiring a quick turn-around.Last edited by golem; 10-25-2012 at 10:09 PM.One angle not mentioned, and may apply to CO2 tanks:When I was looking for O/A tanks I found a guy with some small ones, used for cheap. Traded them up at the LWS and basically saved $100 on the spot over buying them from the store. Now I have double the gas for about the same priced fill, and don't get dinged at the end of the month for not using them like a rental.Thanks for the ESAB link, good info.Last edited by Brazin; 10-26-2012 at 09:22 AM.SqWave 200Millermatic 190Airco 200 ACHypertherm PM45Boice-Crane Band SawVictor O/A