Anti plasma dude strikes again!!!!

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This is down and dirty, get it done, and move on stuffMake the bevel, clean it up, and go have a brewFor you guys that gotta gotta gotta gotta have the plasma, and think it's the answer to everything under the sun...........Fast bevel on some flat.  Harris torch with size "O" tip which is the correct size for a clean cut on plate from 1/4-1/2" plate.  Acetylene at around 5psi, 02 at 35psi.Actual cut around 1 1/2"Do a preheat, start the cut, get the fire lit, and let the oxygen stream do the rest.  Once oxidization starts, the 02 stream will cut anything in its path until it starts curving back on you.  Slow the travel down, and a small tip will cut 3x its designed capacity.  It's all about the oxygen stream.Not picture on the wall in the drawing room pretty, but it's get it done timeQuick clean up with grinder, and off to other things.Total time per tooth...........10 seconds with torch, and about 30-45 seconds with grinder.  Absolute perfection no, but get it done yes.  Start to finish 15 minutes.  Golden.  This ain't the space shuttle.Nothing, and I mean nothing, excels at cutting thru large masses of steel like a torch.BTW......that ugly slag  Few taps with a chipping hammer, and it's history.I'm on a mission from God to convince the newcomers to invest in a good cutting rig (around 600 clams with owner bottles), over dropping twice that amount on something with less capabilities. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersamm I'm on a mission from God to convince the newcomers to invest in a good cutting rig (around 600 clams with owner bottles), over dropping twice that amount on something with less capabilities.
Reply:Less capabilities???  How does that torch do on copper, alum, stainless, etc.?My name's not Jim....
Reply:I water jet and cnc everything.
Reply:Great torch work is key I don't have plasma so I learned how to cut well the torch actln and propane. See being broke was a good thing. Cutting clean and accurately is money saved. The o/a torch work never gets a lot of praise but should. I was going to buy a plasma but I am really happy without it. A lot of the time my torch cuts cleaner than the plasma cutters I have used. I made some fire dogs out of 1". The customer could not believe I did not use a plasma.
Reply:Ok, I don't do aluminum, stainless, copper, or provaloneAll I'm saying is, for the average guy that works with plain old A36, the gas axe is the way to go.I'm not saying that the plasma doesn't hold a really good place in the niche it belongs.  Remember I was singing the praises of the plasma process on some CNC stuff I had done lately.I figured this arguement would come up  So I usually have a camera handy (Thank you Denrep, you sowed the seed).A bunch of repetitive cuts on mild steel, which a good number of guys work with, and an average cut.  Not the best cuts, but decent cuts.  I don't believe in just putting up perfect work.Reasonably straight lines (my weird arc method, be the line, hand in one fixed place with torch traveling an arc so to speak), very little finish work to do, and very little slag on backside of cut (Y'all call it dross, dunno about that, just slag to me)I guess I'm just trying to be real here for the average dude that's getting into this.I'm not the best at what I do, but I think that a lot of processes lead to better performance in other processes.  Mastering the torch leads to better skills in stick, and wire.  It fosters a real understanding of the metal.  And the metal is what it's all about.The average cut teaches you melting points, travel speed, and delay time.  Same stuff that you need when welding.  To abandon gas cutting in favor of arc cutting doesn't teach you how fragile an edge can be, or how fast you can ruin that edge.  It teaches you how to hold your hands to form a square edge, and it teaches you humility  Hand eye coodination.Yeah, I'm weirdPic One.... average cutPic Two....surface of cutPic Three.....the crud on the backside of the cut.  DrossHoly Crap, this ain't rocket science, and it's a cheaper way for entry level folks to get into melting some iron. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Have to agree with you on that one Samm. Although plasma has it's place you can't beat the acetylene for cost, speed, portability and versatility IMHO.....Mike
Reply:I also fall into your camp on this, Samm. I've been debating getting a plas for a couple of yrs but just can't justify the expense. I build/ repair a lot of things for friends and relatives besides myself. If I had a real business, I could justify getting a plas.  I think a lot of newcomers don't realize the importance of a CLEAN tip of the right size and oxygen pressure setting for doing what they want w/ it. I keep an old tip that's been overheated a few too many times for everyday cutting and a new size #0 for the "nitty gritty" jobs. That new tip has been out of the box for several yrs and you can hardly tell it. When you clean a tip and it won't pull the flame out to almost a foot long when you hit the oxygen, then it's time for a new one for doing really clean, precise cuts.                Just my 2 pennies,                                             MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Hey Samm,I do agree with your summation regarding O/A & the overall usage with its' capabilities. We 'ol-timers were weaned with O/A & I was fortunate to have an uncle to mentor me(in '55) who was a magician with an O/A cutting torch. Learning to weld, braze, sil-sol, lead solder, & cut with proficiency has become kind of a lost art to todays' youngsters. They also don't realize the ease to learn TIG welding as both applications are the same except for heat source. I also have plasma cutters in my shop & mobile & their use is determined by application & which would be most proper & provide the best method for efficiency & profit margin. Too those starting out, you will never regret the investment with a good O/A outfit.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:I thought everybody had plasma & OA...  Maybe i'm the only one?The best things in life all come on a stick!
Reply:Originally Posted by JohnnyWelderI water jet and cnc everything.
Reply:Originally Posted by fat bastardhows that work for ya in the field? Oh that's right you just run the pie hole, spitting out sh!t.
Reply:Got my torches.. learned to cut proper.. handiest fecking things they've ever invented and no you can't beat them for price, reliability, and usage on a busy day's worth of steel shaping. I do want a plasma however too for the artistic fine cuts that are just nearly impossible to cut proper without one.I'd be lost without my torches .. absolutely.
Reply:Samm, That cut looks dandy and I'm sure it will suffice. Although I wonder if you're running a little too much blow?If you really want to get fancy, I'll bet that if you repeat the cut from the edge perpendicular to your cut, you may get even better results:Attachment 44887Because... The tip would be easier to square with the cut line, and, the cut's far end wouldn't taper to a feather-edge. A feather-edge overheats easily, and may tend to melt-off  before its time to burn; this easy-to-burn melt tends to block or redirect the desired straight O2 path.When cutting from the direction I described, the cut also tapers to a thin edge, but the thin cut is a consistent thinness from torch tip to ejection kerf. A slight increase in travel speed may be required when approaching the end taper. The faster travel will usually adjust for the hotter and thinner steel, which burns faster.Good LuckLast edited by denrep; 10-19-2010 at 11:43 PM.
Reply:is that a box trawl ..?  that is coooool , that u build your own heavy farm stuff like that......i know those are expensive , and your farm made one looks even more heavy duty.good job.        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:Try busting a collar off a joint of pipe with a plasma and saving the threads on the pipe. Try cutting a piece of pipe out of a collar and saving the collar threads with a plasma. Try cutting valve seats out of a PD pump with a plasma. Ain't gonna happen.
Reply:For the average joe you cant beat O/A. If you do aluminum or stainless regular buy you a plasma. But if you do aluminum or stainless once in a blue moon outsource the work or rent a plasma.Ranger 250 GXTSmith Gas Axe
Reply:I have two plasma machines both so expensive to run I have not used either in over a year. If it was hooked to a CNC table I might use them more. I is just so damn hard to get them to the second story of an erection project to relieve the flange on a beam connection. lol
Reply:c'mon , try cutting fenders , quarter panels or ANY "Steel" body panels with O/A , without warping them..........Plasma's the cleanest way to go on thin material without applying too much heat.        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:Good post Sam.  I think O/A torches are over looked by newbies...well not all maybe, but your point is sound.Torches are invaluable.  The real Swiss Army knife of the trade. weld it like you own it
Reply:Try straightening out yer bent crowbar with yer plasma cutter.  We could argue the merits of crescent wrenches over line wrenches too, huh? City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:every one making good points.  in a shop and or on thin metal plasma is awseome.in the field and heavy steel a torch can not be beatportable and easy to set up.  skill is a major factor for sure though.cuts look good.  bevels is something i have never been good at.  i need more practice
Reply:Got both... both have their applications.  I still feel more comfortable with O/A for most things that aren't too thin.  If I had to give one up, it would be the plasma... but in the meantime, it's nice to have both.Work HARDER, not smarter! ------------------------ Miller Bobcat 250Millermatic 251Lincoln Precision TIG 185Hypertherm PM 600Hobart 135 HandlerOxweld 400 FlameMaster
Reply:really depends on the field.  Also some people swear by arc gouging, never done it in my life.Really depends on what type of work you do on average.  I don't have an OA setup right now, but I keep a propane blow torch around for preheating, and that's an additional benefit of an OA setup.  I create most of my home projects out of stainless steel, and sheet metal so OA has no use for me.  If people are doing farm work and thick stuff OA is usually the way to go, also works out in the field.  Really depends on the work though. Both work, but I would prefer to live without OA rather than plasma as plasma will cut anything OA can.
Reply:Originally Posted by Metarinkareally depends on the field.  Also some people swear by arc gouging, never done it in my life.Really depends on what type of work you do on average.  I don't have an OA setup right now, but I keep a propane blow torch around for preheating, and that's an additional benefit of an OA setup.  I create most of my home projects out of stainless steel, and sheet metal so OA has no use for me.  If people are doing farm work and thick stuff OA is usually the way to go, also works out in the field.  Really depends on the work though. Both work, but I would prefer to live without OA rather than plasma as plasma will cut anything OA can.Samm, did you ever get try the disc plow?                             MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:I think he covered that in one of the dozen threads he posted on the project Mike.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!