Millermatic 211 vs. Thermal Arc 252i

admin

I am thinking about replacing/upgrading my current MIG welder, which is a low end 220V Lincoln sold at Home Depot, the HD175.  It is not rated to weld 3/16 inch steel with solid wire, so kind of wimpy.  I don't use it all that often, but think that if I had a better and more powerful MIG welder I would use it more.  I am using it right now to build some jigs.I know that the Millermatic 211 and the Thermal Arc 252i are not the same class of machine at all, but they both are benchtop MIGs with more power than the typical benchtop MIGs, which top out at 180 amps or so.    If space was no object I would probably end up with a Millermatic 252 or a Lincoln Powermig 256.    I don't have room for an inverter welder and a separate wire feeder, or I would already have done that.Portability is not a consideration, as I don't weld outside my shop even once a year.  I run my welders, plasma cutter, and compressor off a single 50 amp 220V circuit.  My primary welder is a Syncrowave 200, so that covers my TIG/Stick needs, up to 200 amps.Originally I was going to buy the Millermatic 211, which was one or two steps up from my current MIG, with roughly the same footprint.    210 amps out, roughly $1000.  The Millermatic 211 has been extremely popular, and has an excellent reputation.But then I realized that Thermal Arc has recently come out with some nifty inverter 3 in 1 welders, primarily MIG, but also lift-arc TIG and Stick.   The model which interests me is the Fabricator 252i, which is max 300 amps out, roughly $2000.  Its size and weight (60 lbs) are similar to the Millermatic 211; both welders have wire feed built in.  Thermal Arc's reputation for reliability has been mixed, I understand.   The local dealer has not even sold one Thermal Arc 252i, in any of their branches.   I did get to demo a Thermal Arc 252i, with the Victor factory rep.   Seemed like a nice machine, lots of features, but easy enough to use by just following the chart in the door.   The downside that I noticed was a noisy fan that ran all the time; the rep said that TA plans to add "Fan on demand" to the 252i.  He said that the TA had been in the US for a year, and in Australia for three years, so not exactly a brand new untested machine.If money was no object I would buy a Lincoln C300, but it is $5000 or more, so out of the question.All of these welders are DC only, so no aluminum TIG, but I have a universal spoolgun so I can MIG thicker aluminum if needed.The Millermatic 211 would replace the Lincoln.   The Thermal Arc 252i would replace two welders, my Lincoln MIG, and another old Thermal ARC inverter stick/mig/tig welder with 260 amps out on single phase power.  (My current Thermal ARC does not have wire feed built in, but I can use it on stick or with my universal spoolgun.  It lives in the shed, being taken out only when I need more power).  The welder(s) being replaced would go on craigslist, I figure they are worth $400-$500 each.I usually weld in the 100 Amp range, so I don't need a 300 amp welder today. I know that some people are believers that you should buy a bigger piece of equipment than you need today, which would suggest the Thermal Arc.  I also like the idea that I could replace two welders with one welder.  But the Millermatic 211 is a safe option, and should run trouble-free for decades.  When I get paid for my current commission, I will have the cash to buy either welder.  I have been thinking about this a lot lately, and leaning to the Thermal Arc.     If I had taken a blank sheet of paper and written my own specs for a dream welder, it would look just like the Thermal Arc 252i, or the Lincoln C300.  My own specs would be an inverter welder, MIG/TIG/Stick, under 100 pounds and benchtop size, up to 300 amps out. Thoughts, opinions?  RichardSculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge
Reply:You really aren't comparing apples to apples. If I was going to drop $2K on a multipurpose tig/stick/mig, I'd be looking for a nice used XMT 304 with feeder myself. I've seen really nice ones for less than $1500 with feeder, and $1800 would certainly get you a decent set up..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Looks like you have it covered,except I would consider getting a feeder for the TA in the shed and use that."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:Originally Posted by noriteLooks like you have it covered,except I would consider getting a feeder for the TA in the shed and use that.
Reply:What about a Multimatic 200?
Reply:Thermal Arc's reputation for reliability has been mixed, I understand.
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255What have you heard? I havent heard of any more problems with them than with the other brands.  Everything can break.  I agree that Miller has a customer service department second to none which definitely can be a deciding factor.  I've had zero problems with anything Thermal Arc.  They're like a Miller at half the cost.
Reply:Of the two you mentioned, definitely the 252i. But, adding a feeder to the Thermal that you have is a cheap and easy solution. If you don't like the way it welds, you could sell the combo and put the money towards the 252i- no harm, no foul.The C300 is a mighty nice machine, though! JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Deals can be found regularly on older commercial duty feeders. usually they come with an old 3 phase welder.   see them at auction all the time..  the auction I got my TA Predator at last week had a few of those feeders with 3 phase welders such as  Airco, Linde, Hobart that sold for $116-$160 each (+18% tax and buyer premium).  all the feeders were 4 roller feeders with gear drives on all 4 rollers...  The drive motors on those types of feeders are 2 to 3 times the size of what you will see on say a TA 252i.  the feeders are usually 115vac and plug into a standard socket.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonMiller is no longer claiming that thier products are made in USA, but assembled in USA from foreign and domestic parts.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawUh-oh, guess that means no more Miller's for you..  Did you ask them about that at Fabtech?   would like to know their answer...
Reply:To answer your question, I'd pick the Miller211.  I'm biased too.  I don't care for a machine that "does it all" either, but that's just me.  If I want a tig machine, I'd just buy a tig.  If I want stick, I'd solely buy a stick welder and the same goes for Mig.    I wouldn't buy a dish washer that also doubles as a blender, nor would I buy a cordless drill that doubles as an electric tooth brush either.  Ya follow???As to the "made in the USA" thing.......  My own opinion is yeah, I'd love stuff to contiue to be "made in USA."  However Taxes, license and  permit fees;  work comp insurance fees, operating expenses and finally expensive union demands have forced American companies "outa here."    In many instances, if an American company wants to keep it's doors open, they are now forced to  go overseas to have their stuff made and/or assembled.   It'll never get better here in the USA for American companies.  It's just reality that nobody like, but I've accepted it now.  That reality is here to stay.  So, I'm used to stuff being made/assembled elsewhere and I'm so over it now about that crap.  I just want a good product that doesn't break down.  I don't care where it's made anymore.  We got other problems to worry about, but that's another topic, elsewhere.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Thanks to all for your comments.I agree that buying a feeder for my current Thermal Arc makes sense, and would save me a bunch of money, except I don't have the space for a separate welder and feeder.   RichardSculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge