Carbon Arc Training

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was a good day. we have gotten some new kids in our shop so we have them running some welds to see how they stand in there abilities. after a while i had some of em come up to me and ask for some practice plate and after serching in the scrap pile and findng nothing i felt it was time to show them some other aspects of our job, Carbon Arcing. We use this on the ships to help us cutting out watertight doors when we replace them or other heavy cutting operation.  So i took the young bucks out to the metal yard to some 1/4" plate that i know has been there for some time now and showed them the ropes.  here are some pics of them at play. they had a blast and they got there practice plate that they wanted. had them cut the strips then we took it to the shear to finish it off. enjoy Attached ImagesIf you like my stuff you can find me on Facebook.  https://www.facebook.com/theangryanv...ngryanvilforge
Reply:one more Attached ImagesIf you like my stuff you can find me on Facebook.  https://www.facebook.com/theangryanv...ngryanvilforge
Reply:Ooooh yeah baby! And from an Airpak!!! Right on, driver! That is like, Gittin 'r done, right there son!What size torch,carbons and @ what amps?"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:ill post some picks of the equip and the settings on monday. i had them grab the carbons so i dont want to tell you the wrong size. but everything is still set how i had it. love to use big blue out there any chance i getIf you like my stuff you can find me on Facebook.  https://www.facebook.com/theangryanv...ngryanvilforge
Reply:Why didn't you just take the plate the shear in the first place? I have changed about 25 or more (I don't remember) water tight doors on Navy ships and I have never used a carbon arc to do it. Even the aluminum ones we just grind the welds out. I hate to pop your bubble but the ship yard workers laugh at guy's like you that do things like that. I'm just saying. Whatever, as long as you have fun playing with your toys. Also grab that rod in the middle, it will work better for you, it's not a 7018 rod. Next time you are in port take a look and watch what that ugly old man in the dirty clothes is doing, he just might have about 20 years more experience than you and you might just learn something sometimes. Yes I have had to repair (redo) what some of you 90 day wonders have tried to fix.  Sorry, nothing personal, I'm just having some fun with you. I guess you have to learn somewhere.
Reply:Originally Posted by LavaWhy didn't you just take the plate the shear in the first place? I have changed about 25 or more (I don't remember) water tight doors on Navy ships and I have never used a carbon arc to do it. Even the aluminum ones we just grind the welds out. I hate to pop your bubble but the ship yard workers laugh at guy's like you that do things like that. I'm just saying. Whatever, as long as you have fun playing with your toys. Also grab that rod in the middle, it will work better for you, it's not a 7018 rod. Next time you are in port take a look and watch what that ugly old man in the dirty clothes is doing, he just might have about 20 years more experience than you and you might just learn something sometimes. Yes I have had to repair (redo) what some of you 90 day wonders have tried to fix.  Sorry, nothing personal, I'm just having some fun with you. I guess you have to learn somewhere.
Reply:Wow, relax, take a breath, and take a chill pill while you are at it.  If you think I do not understand what you are doing, you might not realize that I am the guy that is standing right next to you. I'm not sure what it was you just tried to say. I will have to go back and decode that confusing message.I will be the first to admit that not all shipyard workers are gods. Yes some of them can be just as stupid as anybody. So can sailors. I've seen both sides of this debate. Like I said earlier, I'm poking you in the ribs. Next time learn how to work calmly when someone is popping your bubble. Like I also said this is nothing personal. It's just your reaction is making me giggle.  I'll see you at the quarter deck in the morning.really dude, just relax. You waste energy if you get excited.Last edited by Lava; 04-01-2011 at 09:31 PM.
Reply:And one more thing.... I'm not "Home Boy".
Reply:Originally Posted by LavaWow, relax, take a breath, and take a chill pill while you are at it.  If you think I do not understand what you are doing, you might not realize that I am the guy that is standing right next to you. I'm not sure what it was you just tried to say. I will have to go back and decode that confusing message.I will be the first to admit that not all shipyard workers are gods. Yes some of them can be just as stupid as anybody. So can sailors. I've seen both sides of this debate. Like I said earlier, I'm poking you in the ribs. Next time learn how to work calmly when someone is popping your bubble. Like I also said this is nothing personal. It's just your reaction is making me giggle.  I'll see you at the quarter deck in the morning.really dude, just relax. You waste energy if you get excited.
Reply:Which shipyard(s)?  Huntington Ingalls formerly NGC ship building?
Reply:Oh yea, where are the rookies respirators?
Reply:I'm out of Pearl Harbor. -- And just so you don't forget, I'm here to help you guy's, not work against you. I'm glad that you can understand that I'm just having a little fun at your expense. Meet me at the px or where ever and I would be glad to buy you a beer and poke you in the ribs some more......carry on, as you were.
Reply:Its always been a love hate relationship between the shipbuilders and the Navy I've gathered since I started with Huntington Ingalls ( formerly northrup grumman shipbuilding ).
Reply:out of Norfolk. Live in virginia Beach already 3 beers down. nice and relaxed now. I poke fun too just need not bring the work home. lolIf you like my stuff you can find me on Facebook.  https://www.facebook.com/theangryanv...ngryanvilforge
Reply:Thats got to be the shortest sailor I've seen in the 1st pict (either that or the other 2 are 6'4+) Whats their height, 4'8? I'm guessing the plate is 4' and it looks like they're not much taller than that..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I understand what you are saying about not being "allowed" to handle or move a plate over a certain size. I know some of those "union worker" rules are kind of stupid sometimes. Sometimes they are in the interest of safety. I'm lucky in that I've worked for non union companies and have had to do it all myself when possible. I was just thinking that you could of just cut the plate in half and carried it with vice grips to the shear. I know what you mean by red tape. I have spent way too much time in CCS just trying to get some stupid hotwork permit that took me longer to get the paper permit than to do the actual job itself. Ya, Ya I know, safety, procedure. I also do a lot of confined space entry. And keep the gas free tickets up to date and valid.I once was on a ship and went to CCS (command control station) (the office) to get a hotwork permit signed by the Chief. He had some bug up his *** for some reason and would not help me. So I stood at attention in his office for about 6 hours and did not say a word because he knew what I wanted. I also had about 6 guys in the p-way waiting for the permit. I told my guy's that they were getting paid, so don't worry about it. It was funny as heck, they all stood there at attention also. After a while the CO (commanding officer) came by the office a few times and started to wonder why we were all standing there all day. I told the CO, "Sir we are not allowed to do hotwork without a permit and that I was charging him about $500 bucks an hour for me and my crew to stand here all day until we had a permit". The CO asked why I didn't get one? I said "I don't know sir, I'm waiting on the Chief to issue me one". The CO went over to the Chief and reamed him a new a$$ hole. The Chief was busy making a new work calendar or something stupid. The Chief was pissed and signed the paper and gave it to me in a huff. I looked at him and smiled, and told him that I didn't need it anymore and tossed it back on his desk. I looked at my watch and told him it was time for my crew to go home for the day and walked out. The guy was so mad that I thought he was going to punch me. Later the CO told me that if that idiot ever gave me any hard time again than to just go see him (the CO) directly and he WILL take care of it. He also told me that he liked the way that I handled the problem by not getting mad. Man I wished I had that on film, it was a classic.  I don't get mad, I get even.Last edited by Lava; 04-01-2011 at 11:22 PM.
Reply:lol. I can tell they're Navy just by the way the one is standing, never mind the coveralls, boots, belts, and the haircuts.'Tis good to be the contractor, who wears WTF ever I want in a sea of blue.I was working at Point Loma one time, chipping concrete on my back from a rubber raft, tide came in, and I found myself on the wrong side of the pen, a few feet from one of the Navy's prized toys. Despite having my ID, clearance, yada, yada, I spent the next nine-ten hours "detained" for no real reason. Some disgruntled prick thought he was asserting his authority by neglecting to do some simple paperwork to let me out. Eventually he got his though. Always an adventure with the Navy. Wasn't billing by the hour unfortunately, but it was fun (I was 18 at the time) and it sure beat the hell out of being in the water that day.
Reply:A few more details that I remember about that last story...The guy's were outside in the passage way quietly waiting for the permit while also standing at attention. It looked too funny because I think one guy had his welding helmet on and I think he was sleeping on his feet with two of the other guy's holding him up so he would not fall down. My guy's did not have a thing to complain about all day. One of my guy's said "we can play this game also, and he said he would stand here all night if he had to". We all went home that night laughing till it hurt.The next day we all came in and realized that we still needed to finish the job that day because we had to go to another job the next day. We got the permit that day with no problem from someone else. We hit that job hard and whipped it out without taking any breaks at all. I was top side getting my guy's some cold sodas to drink. I seen the CO on the pier and he asked me if we had any problem today. I said no, we didn't have any problem and in fact we were working right through lunch break in order to get the job done on time.He said "No you are not. Get your guy's up to the mess deck and eat some lunch." He took us to the mess deck and told the cook, "Feed these guy's and feed them good'. Yes sir replied the cook. We all sat down at the tables and noticed the Chief walking through the room. Man if looks could kill we would all be dead. We all smiled and waved to the Chief. He was about to have a breakdown and asked the cook who let these guy's eat on the ship? The cook quietly said the CO said they could. The food was kind of lousy but it was one of the best meals that I ever ate. I enjoyed every last bite knowing that the Chief could do nothing.I later gave the CO a company t-shirt and hat and told him what happened. He cracked up laughing. He said he was glad that he could help. I told him thanks shook his hand and went home.
Reply:Originally Posted by LavaI have changed about 25 or more (I don't remember) water tight doors on Navy ships and I have never used a carbon arc to do it. Even the aluminum ones we just grind the welds out.
Reply:Lava, if you were a civvie contractor, why in the world would you be standing at attention?"These instructions are at our present level ofknowledge. Legal requirements do not exist.Technical issues subject to change."_________________________________________Lincoln MIG PAK 180Lincoln AC-225
Reply:I was at attention just to look stupid. So he could see how dumb he himself was acting. It was funny as heck and worth every minute. And the fact that I can act as dumb as I want right in front of him and there was nothing he could really do. Some of the other sailors were cracking up about it later. They even agreed that the guy was a jerk.The carbon arc... OK maybe my old brain is scrambled. That could be  possible. I think we did it both ways now that I think about it. All the jobs are a blur to me now. OK I will give you the benefit and say that I am wrong. OK call me stupid. But I remember doing a few that I was sure we used a grinder and it did not take long at all. Grind the weld down and split it with a chisel and it popped right off.
Reply:Originally Posted by LavaThe carbon arc... OK maybe my old brain is scrambled. That could be  possible. I think we did it both ways now that I think about it. All the jobs are a blur to me now. OK I will give you the benefit and say that I am wrong. OK call me stupid. But I remember doing a few that I was sure we used a grinder and it did not take long at all. Grind the weld down and split it with a chisel and it popped right off.
Reply:Well if you say so... I guess you are always right and I am always wrong. Whatever make you happy. I'm not going to loose any sleep about what you think about me.  Have a nice day. Never mind what I said. I will never be able to change your mind, will I?Can we just quit this post already? It's getting a little off topic sort of. It's not fun anymore. And neither are you.
Reply:Yeah, just what I thought! You can dish it out, but you can't take it! Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWThats got to be the shortest sailor I've seen in the 1st pict (either that or the other 2 are 6'4+) Whats their height, 4'8? I'm guessing the plate is 4' and it looks like they're not much taller than that.To try to nudge the post back on topic a little, I am a bit interested in the process of carbon arc cutting.I'm going to guess you need a fairly hefty welder that can deliver a lot of amps to do it.next question is, are they using just a carbon rod, or are they using carbon arc/air? I'm always trying to find ways to do things with what i have, Until i can somehow justify the cost of something like O/A or a plasma cutter. However there is usually something that gets in the way, like the 200 - 300+ amps I'm suspecting I need from a quick bit of research.
Reply:Originally Posted by stiffmanTo try to nudge the post back on topic a little, I am a bit interested in the process of carbon arc cutting.I'm going to guess you need a fairly hefty welder that can deliver a lot of amps to do it.next question is, are they using just a carbon rod, or are they using carbon arc/air? I'm always trying to find ways to do things with what i have, Until i can somehow justify the cost of something like O/A or a plasma cutter. However there is usually something that gets in the way, like the 200 - 300+ amps I'm suspecting I need from a quick bit of research.
Reply:Thats great, I went to welding school for 3 years, Learned the CAG process on Carbon Steel, Stainless, and Aluminum.  I put that on my resume, When I went for a interview, the owner of the Company looked at me and said, You know how to CAG? I said yes.  He said as far as he knew that was becoming a lost art, Im only 21, and havent been around the Welding trade as long as most of you guys, but Im glad there still teaching this process. Sealed the deal for me.  Some Blue , Some Red & Some GreyProverbs 16:2-3.2 "All a person’s ways seem pure to them, but motives are weighed by the Lord. 3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans."
Reply:I'd say carbon arc is far from dead in the repair world.So is there a letter code for piercing with steel electrode?NOMADMAD - Have the students clamp the carbon shorter, work with the point's side, and orient the "button" so that the air blast is best directed at the ongoing cut. I think you'll see some impressive improvements.Good Luck
Reply:Originally Posted by stiffmanTo try to nudge the post back on topic a little, I am a bit interested in the process of carbon arc cutting.I'm going to guess you need a fairly hefty welder that can deliver a lot of amps to do it.next question is, are they using just a carbon rod, or are they using carbon arc/air? I'm always trying to find ways to do things with what i have, Until i can somehow justify the cost of something like O/A or a plasma cutter. However there is usually something that gets in the way, like the 200 - 300+ amps I'm suspecting I need from a quick bit of research.
Reply:Ah, it looks like I'll have to make do with what i've got, as even with any welder i'd be looking at buying any time soon couldn't handle that kind of power (not to mention mains power, 10 amp 240v is what i've got to work with in this house  )I would be better off with with plasma or O/AI can see how it would be useful, especially for the maintenance guys out there.cheers,Matt
Reply:stiffman I no longer own a machine big enough to carbon arc with, and very seldom do I need too.But my Hypertherm 1250 does a fine job of taken out welds when the need arises. With carbon arc there is no substitute for amps, and cfm, but a plasma will work in a pinch. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Looking good! It's good to see the young bucks getting some hands on experience. What ship are you serving on now?
Reply:ok, like i promised here are the pics of how we had things set up for our carbon arc cutting. if we had things turned up any higher we just got the rods too hot so i had to back them down a little. here are the pics. Attached ImagesIf you like my stuff you can find me on Facebook.  https://www.facebook.com/theangryanv...ngryanvilforge
Reply:Originally Posted by OxideLooking good! It's good to see the young bucks getting some hands on experience. What ship are you serving on now?
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepI'd say carbon arc is far from dead in the repair world.So is there a letter code for piercing with steel electrode?NOMADMAD - Have the students clamp the carbon shorter, work with the point's side, and orient the "button" so that the air blast is best directed at the ongoing cut. I think you'll see some impressive improvements.Good Luck
Reply:Just a thought but;In the pic of the welder face. The handle on the left is pointing directly at the statement "recommended arcair setting". I BELIEVE, that handle should be pointing to the black mark by the statement "CC/CAC-A     200-Max     170-Max". I would think you would be able to feel the "stop" where the handle should be. I may be wrong, but I thought you can damage the switch by using it in between stops. Just an observation."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"