Toys R Us Question

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Have  a friend that has,  to date, a Thermodyne Predator pro  with 8 hours  (think 3 phase 460 Kva) Propane unit. An (Air Products) CK Systematics 275 amp  wire welder, Miller Super S32 -P suitcase, Millermatic 130 wire welder , Lincoln 225 AC tombstone,  Miller 3035 spoolgun ,SGA 100 ,and lastly, an American made, Century 90 amp wire welder (Craftsman branded) and of course a Miller helmet.. Ok to start off, none of it is for sale.             He wants to learn how to weld.  He is retired truck driver and now has  the money to buy the toys he always wanted. He is embarrased to  join this site due to inexperiance and affraid to ask silly questions. I tried to get him to go to the adult welding class but  he feels he is to old. I myself am going to give him the basics of wire feed . My friend Gary is going to give him the basics of stick. My question is, most things that we all take for granted is something he will not know, nor how to look up and understand,Can you give simple tips, basic expanations, etc?With the wealth of knowlegable folks here  I am sure there will be responces that I can print out and give to him  , to get him started on the technical end. It will save me and Gary a boat load of phone calls..lol Please no detrimental stuff, the man really wants to learn, and not the wrong way as many of us did old school.  Thanks, Wrenchit
Reply:wrenchit,I doubt anyone here, regardless of their current skill level, began welding by passing a G7 2" Sched. 160 pipe test with their off hand? on their first welds? What's to be embarrassed about? nobody learned without some effort and that's what he'll need not some sense of burden because he's spent time learning to do something else!I'd encourage your friend to try then ask, this forum has a wide variety of skills and skill levels all posting and replying and your friend shouldn't feel that his beginning skill level is a poor reflection on his willingness to learn.  He may never become the artist some of the posters have become, but his questions will be answered it looks like to me.  Even the artists here had to put a couple of thousand hours smiling at that arc to get there.I've just joined and I'm still reading the archives, but I can see that everyone is welcomed and encouraged to ask even the most fundamental questions.   What about the only foolish question being the one not asked?  If your friend wants to learn and has time and few extra $, why not suggest he find a local shop and beat them to death with Cnotes until they let him sweep the floor and hang around?  Most shops can use a man that will trade some clean and sweep for some hood time? If he's already had a career in the trades, then its likely he won't be seen as some young whipper snapper who will bring headaches and risky work habits to that shop so he'd gain and so would they.I think he should ask the questions, read what the experienced people say and practice till his arms are sore.  When I was a welders helper, [previous century '70's] I drove the welders nuts with questions, but by listening to the replies I managed to get some solid trade craft.  Who cares what anyone thinks? so what if I'm dense? I want learn and hope your friend wants that more than anything else.Cheers,Kevin Morin
Reply:I'm enrolled in the BEGINNER welding class at the local JC this summer. Two afternoons a week, instructor is the Dept head and a 20 year friend, but I'll still have to earn my grade  I'm going to post a small thread  of a little of it for fun. I am retired and this is something I want to improve.  There are guys here who can weld anything WELL. They are an inspiration, never seen any oddball criticism etc. So I think he'd enjoy it here. point of it all is to improve.Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:Your friend who wants to learn to weld has quite an extensive collection of welding machines for someone who wants to learn how to weld. His collection resembles the collection of a seasoned journeyman with lots of experience.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Your friend needs to quit being so proud and just ask what needs to be asked.  If not, he can practice on his own untill he is frustrated and either gives up, or gives in and starts asking questions and for personal instruction.  Nobody is born knowing how to do anything.  We all had to start somewhere and NOT asking questions is dumber than asking silly ones.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:If your friend is too embarrassed to subscribe to this site or attend a local welding class, I would recommend he go to a library/book store and get a welding text book.  He might also find the Welding DVD's sold by NorthernToll helpful.   Books and DVD's might better fit his comfort zone.  Welding is a deep subject that cannot be suitably taught  through a forum.  NorthernToll Welding DVD link: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...atchallpartialNo one achieves mastery of any subject, profession, or trade on their first attempt.  There is no reason for your friend to be embarrassed because he has a desire to learn.
Reply:Pride can be expensive and waste a lot of time.There is no such thing as a stupid question; just stupid answers.I am one of those that likes to try to "figure it out for myself", but...There usually comes a point, where I need to ask. And even then I prefer to have someone "walk me through it" rather than "show" me. That way they can see what I'm doing wrong at the moment and tell me.I started learning to weld at a later age than alot of guys, I started out by going to a welding school with most guys in my evening class about 20 years younger."SOUTHPAW" A wise person learns from another persons mistakes;A smart person learns from their own mistakes;But, a stupid person.............never learns.
Reply:No need to be embaresed about going to school. When I went through welding school, there were guys just a few years away from retirement going through the class with me. No one poked fun at them for being old or anything. In fact alot of us "whipper snappers" looked up to the older guys in the class. They might not have known any more about welding than the rest of us, but they had plenty of other real world experience to share with us.
Reply:How did he ever become a truck driver???
Reply:Originally Posted by wrenchit          He wants to learn how to weld.   He is embarrased to  join this site due to inexperiance and affraid to ask silly questions.
Reply:wrenchit, sounds like the best thing for your buddy to do - and the best thing you can do for him right now is convince him - to read the above responses and put any shyness or hesitation to ask questions aside and get on with it.One thing I learned long ago is you're never too old to learn.  Unwilling to or closed minded are something altogether different.Hey, welcome to the forum JoshD.   Hope you enjoy it.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Wrenchit,First thing I'd recommend for your buddy, or anyone else just starting in welding, is to go to the Miller site (millerwelds.com) and click on the resources tab.  Order a copy ($25 including shipping) of their Student Pack.  The student pack includes an excellent Tig Handbook, a GMAW Handbook, a GMAW-P Handbook, and a good introduction to SMAW.  Also includes are weld calculators and a bunch of other helpful stuff.Lincoln Electric also has some excellent training/reference materials but they have to be selected by topic.Eighty percent (or more) of the "basic questions" I see asked on these boards are answered in detail in the references I mentioned.  The more effort your friend is willing to put out in studying the material, the more informed he'll be.  Also will be in a better position to ask for assistance in a particular area.Use of the "SEARCH" feature will also allow him to gain knowledge without having to ask the same questione that was asked and answered (often in great detail) just days before.The problem with trying to "learn the basics" from an internet board is that many times the answers you get are WRONG.   Not saying that the respondent is trying to confuse the OP, just that he doesn't have the experience to know right from wrong himself.  A newbie doesn't have the background to distinguish right from wrong (bad info vs good info).  I see way too much bad information being posted.  Generally, one of the "old guys" will jump in with a correction, but sometimes not because it will often just start a "war of words".Personally, I think that proper training (votech schools, jr college, etc) or working with a qualified mentor are invaluable.  It will greatly reduce the "learning curve".I also disagree about the comment that "the only stupid question was the one that wasn't asked".  To that I say BS.  Especially if the question was asked and answered yesterday in the same forum.  Questions like, "Can I use C25 gas with my tig machine?" shows me that the poster has put forth NO EFFORT on his part.  Why should I put forth effort to provide a response.Welding (done correctly) is a very deep field.  Few professional welders are "expert" at all phases of the field.  There's always something new to be learned.  The more effort your friend puts forth, the more people he'll find that want to help him.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIII also disagree about the comment that "the only stupid question was the one that wasn't asked".  To that I say BS.  Especially if the question was asked and answered yesterday in the same forum.  Questions like, "Can I use C25 gas with my tig machine?" shows me that the poster has put forth NO EFFORT on his part.  Why should I put forth effort to provide a response..
Reply:Originally Posted by wrenchitHave  a friend          He wants to learn how to weld.He is embarrased to  join this site due to inexperiance and affraid to ask silly questions.
Reply:wrench,You are never too old to learn.  You can be too stubborn or too close-minded to learn, but that really doesn't have to be from age.(btw, that "you" is a generic pronoun of 'you', not specifically directed to -you-    )On-line resources can help, but it still all comes down to p-r-a-c-t-i-c-e.  But practicing bad or wrong habits doesn't help, sometimes it takes having someone to help guide you in good habits or helping you figure out the 'right' way to do it.re: on-line resources.  Tons of information is available from the Lincoln, Miller, and ESAB websites.  The ESAB site has their pretty good education section at http://www.esabna.com/us/en/education/index.cfm   .  Go to the "ESAB University" section.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Tell him to read on this site, and also venture over to weldingtipsandtricks.com.  Lotsa good articles and videos (sometimes watching someone do it is easier than going off an explanation) on that site, (one can also sign up for a weekly email with a useful video of some sort).Who is John Galt?