Oxy like Tig???

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Just thought I'd throw a stick out and see who grabs on    The first purchase I make, when I make one, will be an Oxy set-up because I am told that Oxy is the best method to begin with.  You begin to understand heat characteristics, metalurgy (sp?), etc.  Not only that, but you can cut and weld with the same machine    That being said, I'm also told and have seen a couple people do it, that you can make an oxy weld look like a TIG because essentially, the same principle is being applied (heat and filler rod), just a different method of doing it with gas or electric.  Almost contradiction as that with a house, gas heat is always better than electric    BAD JOKE.  Just wondering if people have some pics of their oxy weld pics?  I've seen some oxy welds where like traditional MIG, yeah, it's a sound weld and looks somewhat appealing but IMO, nothing looks as good as TIG.  Even ZTFabs MIG welds....but that's only because his TIG looks better
Reply:not pretty... Attached Images
Reply:I do think that oxy-acetylene is a great learning tool especially if your first starting out.  If your start out with it the way you want to I think your going to be spending good money that can be spent on classes or other equipment.  In taking a class you learn the basics of the magic that needs to happen when welding and as you continue to learn you will also see how impractical it is to weld with gas.   The welding program at the CC where I went started everybody of with oxy-acetylene and I would literally sit there 4 to 5 hours a day, 5 days a week for 6 weeks and by the end I really wanted to move on to the next class.  Ever since then I have not needed to weld anything with gas but the skills learned do transfer over to tig quite well.
Reply:hang on, grabbing a bag of popcorn for this one
Reply:Unless you have someone to show you O/A, it can be rough.For a Hobby dude nuttin' wrong with getting a decent Mig machine. I bought Mig 120v, then an O/A set off CL, then the Passport, then the TA185.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:The similarities of hand / eye coordination for TIG and O/A are the same. That is where it ends. Tig is much more localized than O/A, as far as HAZ, and can weld metals that O/A can't touch. I've never heard of anyone succesfuly welding magnesium, brass, or copper with O/A. Not to mention TIG is a much cleaner weld."SOUTHPAW" A wise person learns from another persons mistakes;A smart person learns from their own mistakes;But, a stupid person.............never learns.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jay OI do think that oxy-acetylene is a great learning tool especially if your first starting out.  If your start out with it the way you want to I think your going to be spending good money that can be spent on classes or other equipment.  In taking a class you learn the basics of the magic that needs to happen when welding and as you continue to learn you will also see how impractical it is to weld with gas.   The welding program at the CC where I went started everybody of with oxy-acetylene and I would literally sit there 4 to 5 hours a day, 5 days a week for 6 weeks and by the end I really wanted to move on to the next class.  Ever since then I have not needed to weld anything with gas but the skills learned do transfer over to tig quite well.
Reply:u need to have an inline fluxr'..............................        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:Love my O/A setup. Even though I have two tig welders I still do some welding with the O/A. For hobby work It's relaxing. Espescially when working out in the garage in cold weather, heats the steel up nicely, and keeps you warm too. I like the job it dose on brazing more than tig brazing. And due to it's versatility vs tig, there are plenty of other uses for an O/A setup. But it is a little harder to learn than other processes. I learned to weld stick, mig and tig at a tech school, but I learned O/A welding on my own. If you decide to get O/A and use it for welding, feel free to PM me. I'll see if I can help shorten the learning curve.
Reply:Originally Posted by papabearThe similarities of hand / eye coordination for TIG and O/A are the same. That is where it ends. Tig is much more localized than O/A, as far as HAZ, and can weld metals that O/A can't touch. I've never heard of anyone succesfuly welding magnesium, brass, or copper with O/A. Not to mention TIG is a much cleaner weld.
Reply:Originally Posted by makoman1860Then you need to come to my shop my friend  The only common material that OA cant be used on in this country is titanium. All of your steels, nickle alloys, monel, inconel, aluminum, magnesium, copper, brass, lead, zinc,  etc etc were all commercially welding with the OA or OF process. In fact, I believe it is the most versatile tool in the welders aresenal. Dont feel bad, in todays society there are many people that cant perform or havent tried a process, and therefore believe it cant be done. The Tig came along AFTER most of our current materials had already been welded, not to say that it doesnt have some traits that arent more suitable for some applications.
Reply:I think its propoganda from the large shiny electric welder companies  J/K I own all miller equipment, great guys. Deffinately start out on a torch, unless your doing thick large AG type work. Honestly if a weldor had a ac/dc stick welder, and a good torch setup.......they could build and repair 99.8% of whats out there, and well. If you ever get a chance to see the Saturn V rocket and all the construction in it, you will see lots of hand tig welded nickel alloys, gas welded steel tubing, gas welded aluminum. brazing, soldering and the like. All of the WW2 aircraft with their welded aluminum tanks, wing tips, fairings, manifolds. Inconel and Monel exhaust systems, 4130 steel tubing structures, magnesium castings, covers, hinges etc. All welded, soundly, and beautifully with a simple torch...maybe it seems too simple....hmmm. Perhaps if I had digital readouts on my regulator pressures it would convince people
Reply:Originally Posted by makoman1860Then you need to come to my shop my friend  The only common material that OA cant be used on in this country is titanium. All of your steels, nickle alloys, monel, inconel, aluminum, magnesium, copper, brass, lead, zinc,  etc etc were all commercially welding with the OA or OF process. In fact, I believe it is the most versatile tool in the welders aresenal. Dont feel bad, in todays society there are many people that cant perform or havent tried a process, and therefore believe it cant be done. The Tig came along AFTER most of our current materials had already been welded, not to say that it doesnt have some traits that arent more suitable for some applications.
Reply:I use O/A welding on a regular basis for many things.  However, it can be damn hard to get a good fillet weld on thick steel with it.  To do it, normally requires a really good preheat, prior to starting the welding operation.In any event, some of the same skills you learn with O/A will be useful for TIG, as the idea of using a separate heat and filler metal source are the same.  However, they really area different animals.My advice to you, is to get yourself an O/A rig, and then start looking for a used stick welder on Craigslist or something.  You can get a Lincoln Tombstone/AC225 for $50-$150, which allow you to overcome some of the limitations of O/A when welding heavier steel, and also teach you a new welding process.Lincoln Idealarc 250Lincoln Weldanpower CC/CV engine driveLincoln LN-25 wire feederMiller Syncrowave 180 SDVarious oxy-fuel setups featuring Victor, Harris, and Prest-o-lite products
Reply:Originally Posted by papabearThanks for the correction. I have wondered about it for a long time, being as you said, O/A out-dating some of the alloys and a lot of alloys out-dating TIG process. I guess I assumed (made an a$$ of me) based on the fact that when I was still in school, I decided to play with scraps of different types of alloys with the O/A torch. Upon trying to get a puddle to form on the magnesium, it just kept burning away. I even asked my instructors what I was doing wrong, to which they told me that I need TIG for that. I guess it's time for me to pick up the O/A torch again and start learning more of it's capabilities.
Reply:Wow, this thread has turned out to be almost a 2 pager    Maybe I should get some popcorn as well.  Although, the reason for the thread was stated in the first post, LETS SEE SOME PICS!    Some people may argue that O/A welding isn't supposed to look like TIG, but neither is MIG which has been beat to death in the other forum....point is, if you can make it look the same and still have a sound weld, why not?    I agree that TIG is much more localized with heat dispersement and you normally get a nicer looking weld...but the same could be said for any welding. The definition of weld is:  to unite (metallic parts) by heating and allowing the metals to flow together or by hammering or compressing with or without previous heating.Now who am I to decide what it looks like
Reply:Originally Posted by BuckFeverWow, this thread has turned out to be almost a 2 pager    Maybe I should get some popcorn as well.  Although, the reason for the thread was stated in the first post, LETS SEE SOME PICS!    Some people may argue that O/A welding isn't supposed to look like TIG, but neither is MIG which has been beat to death in the other forum....point is, if you can make it look the same and still have a sound weld, why not?    I agree that TIG is much more localized with heat dispersement and you normally get a nicer looking weld...but the same could be said for any welding. The definition of weld is:  to unite (metallic parts) by heating and allowing the metals to flow together or by hammering or compressing with or without previous heating.Now who am I to decide what it looks like
Reply:I think the reason NO ONE's POSTING Pics. is because , there is ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST in BRAZING LIKE TIG...........the main reason for Brazing is the SMOOTHNESS of the weld joint period.  NO RIPPLE CRAP.!        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:Originally Posted by woi2ldI think the reason NO ONE's POSTING Pics. is because , there is ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST in BRAZING LIKE TIG...........the main reason for Brazing is the SMOOTHNESS of the weld joint period.  NO RIPPLE CRAP.!
Reply:Originally Posted by papabearFYI: We are not talking about brazing, we're talking about welding. I will post some pics of mild steel practice coupons that I did with O/A (provided I can find them), hopefully tomorrow.
Reply:Nope Thats brazing when you use flux and bronze rod. You didn't (or were not supposed to ) melt the base metal. Welding melts the base metal and fuses it with filler just like mig, tig or stick (though you can braze with tig). Brazing is often the first Oxy fuel technique learned however since it's so simple..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by woi2ldI think the reason NO ONE's POSTING Pics. is because , there is ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST in BRAZING LIKE TIG...........the main reason for Brazing is the SMOOTHNESS of the weld joint period.  NO RIPPLE CRAP.!
Reply:Sorry Duplicate
Reply:When I started my schooling here at Pennsylvania College of Technology I had basic stick before Oxy Fuel welding/cutting.  Being basically a 100% newbie to welding I wish I had OFW first.  It taught me so much about how steel acts.  We did everything from straight OFW to brazing on cast iron.  I have some pictures of some good mild steel welds I did with the torch.  I will post them this weekend.  None of any brazed or braze welded joints however.  I'll see if i can find some examples laying around in the shop tomorrow.
Reply:Originally Posted by woi2ldI think the reason NO ONE's POSTING Pics. is because , there is ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST in BRAZING LIKE TIG...........the main reason for Brazing is the SMOOTHNESS of the weld joint period.  NO RIPPLE CRAP.!Originally Posted by weldbeadi posted a foto, next day it was gone..in its place a rectangle and the words  attached    images... nothihng there when you click on it...wtf??
Reply:Here you go. I did these up today. The picture realy doesn't show the rust very well. No tig welder in his right mind would have welded on this without grinding it severely first. That's one of the things I love about O/A, it's not real sensative about surface conditions. I don't know about you, but it looks tig like to me. Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1Your image in Post #2 is still there.
Reply:MIG like TIG, OXY like TIGHave we all gone mad???? Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:one year ago, i thought the "tig look" was produced by oxy welding.  this pic was taken 11.5 months ago.  It was my attempt to have the stacked dime look.  I've come a long ways, yes, but there's a loooooooong way to go.  I no longer have OA tanks (i'm afraid of them now) and i mainly do tig with a little mig on the side.  obviously, this is not me bragging about my bead
Reply:nice guys........but've got to ask...........what's the technique Grimm        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:Don't be afraid of the tanks oxy moron. They're our friends.I see some potential in your pic. You would have made a decent O/A welder if you hadn't let the tanks scare you off.
Reply:Originally Posted by woi2ldnice guys........but've got to ask...........what's the technique Grimm
Reply:Weldbead, you might try a photo hosting website as an alternative. Sorry, I didn't read the second page yet! Oops........Yes Sam, we have.Last edited by tanglediver; 02-25-2010 at 11:22 PM.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:The technique? I don't know, I just run it like tig. Travel speed is a little slower. Circular weave is faster. Having the right size tip for the job helps (thats why the right side of the pic is cut off  ) Proper pressure for the tip size. I just watch the puddle the same as I would for a tig job. Just gotta keep your filler hand back further.
Reply:Those are nice Grimm1. I find it easier to hold a stinger or mig gun in my hand than a torch and wire filler in my finger-tips. I will have to shoot some pics after a few flame projects in the near future. They ought to be good for a laugh!  Last weeks attempt at tig was sturdy, but not purdy.  Attached ImagesCity of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by Grimm1Don't be afraid of the tanks oxy moron. They're our friends.I see some potential in your pic. You would have made a decent O/A welder if you hadn't let the tanks scare you off.
Reply:Here's what I was able to find of my old practice coupons. Not nearly as pretty as TIG. The first is 1.5" I.D., 3/16" wall pipe sections (about 1" -1.5" lengths) welded together, root pass then filler pass. The second is a fillet weld on 1/16" mild steel. Attached Images"SOUTHPAW" A wise person learns from another persons mistakes;A smart person learns from their own mistakes;But, a stupid person.............never learns.
Reply:This year I started using reading glasses, I hate them, but I can't see up close without them. Not an excuse, just reality. These are just entry-level projects mind you. The first two got rusty over the last couple weeks from the rain in an outdoor wall locker.1. flat bead w/no filler (16 gauge)2. flat bead w/filler (16 gauge)3. flat lap (14 on top of 16 gauge)4. flat open-root butt (16 gauge)5. flat tee (12 on top of 11 gauge) Attached ImagesCity of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:But this is the best bead so far, it is a flat lap, so it's pretty easy! They are both 11 gauge. Attached ImagesCity of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I learned to weld O/A in High School in a welding class I took.  I taught myself to stick weld on an old farm AC stick welder.I also find O/A welding relaxing, but use it mainly on very light metal.  Never tried Aluminum, maybe someday once I get an O2 tank.Last weekend, I picked up a stick welder for the first time in 30 years.  Didn't realize in less than an inch, I knew exactly what I was doing wrong & corrected it.  Beads came out great.  When I was in HS, one of the projects we had to do was make a hollow cube 2" square.  We also had to fill it with water & weld it solid.  Trying to weld the steam hole shut was tough, but do-able.  Don't know what ever happened to that cube.  Mom prolly tossed it out years ago.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Originally Posted by oxy moron maybe the fear is due to an industrial air compressor blew up around me when i was 3 years old, nearly killed me.
Reply:when u guys are welding with the o/a..............is it just the torch and filler rod........there's no flux..?  or anythang.............then why does TIG need an inert gas to do tha same.        thermal arc 252i  -  millermatic 350P -   miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs  -   Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:No flux on mild steel.  Alum, uses a flux............but don't ask me what kind.  I've never welded Alum.Don't know exactly why TIG requires inert gas other than to prevent oxidation of the weld.  Others better schooled than I can answer that question.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:typically you O/A steel with a neutral flame.  With a Neutral flame the Oxygen and Acetylene are burned at the same rate and no excess oxygen is present to oxidize the steel.  If you use an oxidizing flame then you will notice a significant difference in the appearance of the weld--It is usually grainy and doesn't flow well while welding. When O/A welding Al  it is common to use a slightly reducing flame.  More Acetylene than Oxy. Flux helps break up oxidation on Al and eliminate the chance of oxidizing as you weld.       The electric arc doesn't have this type control.
Reply:edit: tap beat me by 3 minutes.Lincoln PowerMig 180cVictor O/ABandaids and aspirinI don't know what I don't know!?
Reply:Originally Posted by tapweldertypically you O/A steel with a neutral flame.  With a Neutral flame the Oxygen and Acetylene are burned at the same rate and no excess oxygen is present to oxidize the steel.  If you use an oxidizing flame then you will notice a significant difference in the appearance of the weld--It is usually grainy and doesn't flow well while welding. When O/A welding Al  it is common to use a slightly reducing flame.  More Acetylene than Oxy. Flux helps break up oxidation on Al and eliminate the chance of oxidizing as you weld.       The electric arc doesn't have this type control.
Reply:Photo from my welding 101 class at the local community college last fall.  They had us make these samples... with butt joint, lap joint, corner joint and T-joint.  I ran out of oxygen during the T-joint in this photo.  Nothing worse than 12 guys all welding at the same time from a common single bottle manifold system.  Oh, and I suck at T-joints...They are much harder to do!  ... and that shows how nice the work is from Tanglediver and PapaBear --zip Attached Images
Reply:A big help to Tee joints is gapping the parts 1x metal thicnkess, it lets the flame go between the parts and not deflected back. Helps penetration as well and was standard practice back when OA was the standard. Give it a shot.
Reply:I was at work last night and gave O/A welding a try on some 16g and some 1/8". Needless to say - it will take some time before I post any pictures on this thread.Just another clown trying to be cool