Newbie to Tig HF Start on tig

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I know this is a basic question but can someone tell me if when using the HF start button do you continue to hold it down after the arc starts or do you release it? I can't seem to get the arc to continue if I release it.Cheers
Reply:I don't have a High Frequency Start Button. Mine is automatic for DC and constant for AC. It shuts off after creating an ARC to start DC. And continues all the time for AC aluminum.Are you doing AC or DC?If you are doing DC you have to wait until you get a silent beam from the torch to the work. Then it will continue on its own, without high frequency. Provided you have enough Argon flowing, And the amount of power you are using is high enough to sustain it.Sometimes when I do very small stuff in DC, or I want a very small bead, the high frequency will come on for almost 25 seconds to preheat the part, hot enough to allow a very low power beam to be sustained. But for AC you will probably want high frequency all the time. Is there a setting for that on the machine? Or is your machine only made to start DC TIG?       Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:This sounds to me like he's using a tig torch with a torch mounted on/off switch or amptrol.  These are usually not momentary switches, so maybe the switch is malfunctioning.  Typically, for an on/off torch switch, you push the switch to turn on the power/gas, let it go, then push the switch again to turn it off at the end of weld.  For a hand amptrol, you move the switch (either sliding or rotary) from the off position to a position that gives you the desired current level and it will stay there until you move it again up/down for more/less current or back to off to stop the weld.On some tig machines with pulse and slope sequencing, if using a torch mounted switch, you push the switch for up-slope, push it again for main current welding, then push it again for down-slope to end the weld. I've not seen a tig machine with a high frequency button that had to be pushed and held down while starting the arc or welding.   There are plenty of tigs with an hf on/off switch on the machine but they are not momentary switches that have to be held down.   If they used a momentary push button for the hf on the machine, that would mean you could never tig weld further than maybe 2 feet from the machine, as you'd have to always be within reaching distance of the button on the machine.Last edited by DesertRider33; 07-18-2010 at 11:37 AM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Silent beam ? Preheating with high frequency ?   Your fingers need to be muzzled. Do you get joy in confusing new welders ? Just curious.
Reply:Just by chance is this an imported machine (chinese)?
Reply:Before anyone can give an intelligent answer we need to know what machine you're using.  Is it AC/DC?  What are you trying to weld?  Accessories attached?Etc, Etc, Etc.lWithout this info, we're all just peeing in the wind.PS.  If you're smart, you'll completely disregard the "silent beam" and "hi-freq preheating" BS expounded by certain posters.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Topic:  function of push buttons on torch:For an easy to understand video on TIG push button function (2T versus 4T) see welding tips and tricks http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/...ngs-part3.htmlTopic: Delayed start... Originally Posted by William McCormick JrSometimes when I do very small stuff in DC, or I want a very small bead, the high frequency will come on for almost 25 seconds to preheat the part, hot enough to allow a very low power beam to be sustained.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIBefore anyone can give an intelligent answer we need to know what machine you're using.  Is it AC/DC?  What are you trying to weld?  Accessories attached?Etc, Etc, Etc.lWithout this info, we're all just peeing in the wind.PS.  If you're smart, you'll completely disregard the "silent beam" and "hi-freq preheating" BS expounded by certain posters.
Reply:Holy F*ck!! Silent Beam? Pre-heat with HF? Enough Argon flow to sustain an arc?Seriously?"Beam me up Scotty, this guy's full of sh!t!"http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Originally Posted by Showdog75Silent beam ? Preheating with high frequency ?   Your fingers need to be muzzled. Do you get joy in confusing new welders ? Just curious.
Reply:ROTFLMAO,Couldn't have said it better myself.Edit:  And I wasn't talking about "tin foil hat's" reply.Last edited by SundownIII; 07-18-2010 at 04:09 PM.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:You may remain silent if you chose to do so..Anything you say can and will be used against you...My beam has been silent ever since I shut the machine off..My washing machine is a whole 'nother story however......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabHoly F*ck!! Silent Beam? Pre-heat with HF? Enough Argon flow to sustain an arc?Seriously?"Beam me up Scotty, this guy's full of sh!t!"
Reply:Billy,I think you missed your calling.You should be writing script for "LOONY TUNES".The guys in the white coats are coming to take you away, away,..........Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Do you hear the beam at all in this movie during the first Straight polarity part? I only hear the noble gas flowing. And high frequency start. You can certainly hear the arc in the two other parts.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIBilly,I think you missed your calling.You should be writing script for "LOONY TUNES".The guys in the white coats are coming to take you away, away,..........
Reply:Why are you welding steel on AC anyway?...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick Jr.... You guys are filling a forum with a bunch of say nothing posts. Mine are filled with sound advice that you can count on being correct till the universe ends.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterYou may remain silent if you chose to do so..Anything you say can and will be used against you...My beam has been silent ever since I shut the machine off..My washing machine is a whole 'nother story however......zap!
Reply:Transformer..Miller 330A/BP......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabWith that comment, now I KNOW that you are delusional!!The sad part is that it's not the majority that suffer from your posts, William, but rather the newcomers who are looking for advice to avoid potential failure or injury. It's a shame that they get led astray and their questions seldom get answered since you like to muddy the waters with so much B.S., gibberish, double talk, and inappropriate terminology.
Reply:Zap that movie shows the different polarities DCEN, AC, and DCEP, and the effect on the tungsten, the work, and of course the sound of the beam or ARC.It also shows a little of Benjamin Franklin's work with points and flats. That is how he was able to tell the direction of electricity.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterTransformer..Miller 330A/BP......zap!
Reply:Who am I luring into what?   ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:William..I like your threads...To a point..You have shown us welds and processes that are consistant with TIG welding..But some of the other stuff...WAAAAYYYYYYYYY back when there was a member here that called himself "Cosmic Sparks"..Ring a bell?Had some far out reasonings about the world and whatever...Don't become like him......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.Billy do you hear that sound?  That is the point, and its zipping right by your head.  Again.  No one ever mentioned you were wrong about an established arc making no sound.Me thinks someone is starting to get just a little fed up with being called out, over and over again.  I could understand your frustration if anything you said had a basis in reality.You think your leading newbies on the right path telling them to pre-heat the part with hi-freq?  You and your father are the ones who have no business teaching others.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick JrOr your ego is very big and you don't wish to see that or address that either. Look you can paint an aluminum pipe with a can of spray paint from Home depot and call it painting the pipe. But unless you use a two part etching primer, and I would suggest some high build two part epoxy primer, and then if you like spray paint with home depot paint. You have not painted yet. Well that is true with welding, if your basics are wrong you will be spinning your wheels, you may even have a shinny coating to show off, but you will not have welded. And hopefully not taught anyone that you have.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:In the meantime the OP has never returned, even to answer the question about what equipment he was using.Can anyone blame him?After Billy's first post, he's probably still off in a corner somewhere saying, "What the hell was that guy talking about?"Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by William McCormick Jr Through noble gas it should be silent. . If you disagree with this then you disagree with an exacting reality.
Reply:Man,That belongs in William's signature line.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIIn the meantime the OP has never returned, even to answer the question about what equipment he was using.Can anyone blame him?After Billy's first post, he's probably still off in a corner somewhere saying, "What the hell was that guy talking about?"
Reply:Whoa!!, did you guys see the stick out on that thing?I thought it was supposed to be shorter than that but it looks as if its working for him O.K. SQUARE WAVE 175 TIG   DUAL MIG 151
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterWilliam..I like your threads...To a point..You have shown us welds and processes that are consistant with TIG welding..But some of the other stuff...WAAAAYYYYYYYYY back when there was a member here that called himself "Cosmic Sparks"..Ring a bell?Had some far out reasonings about the world and whatever...Don't become like him......zap!
Reply:Original Question.I know this is a basic question but can someone tell me if when using the HF start button do you continue to hold it down after the arc starts or do you release it? I can't seem to get the arc to continue if I release it.Cheers
Reply:Hey Guys this has been most entertaining not to mention informative,Well it is an Import Inverter 200amp DC machine with downslope? whatever that does? pulse 2Hz or 200Hz whatever that does? All leads correctly fitted. Welding 2mm mild steel 2.4mm tungsten 7mm cup pure argon 5lt per min, 2.4mm mild steel filler rod. Without continuously holding the button the arc dies especially when you add filler rod.Cheers and thanks for the input.
Reply:Originally Posted by lphotHey Guys this has been most entertaining not to mention informative,Well it is an Import Inverter 200amp DC machine with downslope? whatever that does? pulse 2Hz or 200Hz whatever that does? All leads correctly fitted. Welding 2mm mild steel 2.4mm tungsten 7mm cup pure argon 5lt per min, 2.4mm mild steel filler rod. Without continuously holding the button the arc dies especially when you add filler rod.Cheers and thanks for the input.
Reply:This is the unit Attached Images
Reply:William,To even imply that some of the other posters "don't know what they're talking about" is beyond rediculous.I personally have been tig welding SINCE BEFORE YOU WERE BORN.  During that time I've had the good fortune to have been able to work with/study under some of the best tiggers in the country in their respective fields.  NEVER have I heard an arc referred to as a "Silent Beam" nor have I ever had anyone recommend using Hi-Freq for "preheating" the base metal.If you had a lick of common sense, you'd STFU and listen to what some of the knowledgeable posters are telling you, instead of expounding a bunch of garbage that's only recognized in the little world of William McCormick.I've had just about enough of your confusing new welders by using unaccepted phraseology and techniques known only to you and not the rest of the welding community.While I will admit that your posts do serve to give an experienced welder "a good laugh", they do nothing towards helping the new guys.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:iphot,While you've told us what machine you're using, it's still not a big help since it's a machine that is not commonly used in the USA.From the posts, I have to assume that you're not in the US.  It would help if you posted up your location.What we do know is that you have a 200A, DC welder.  I assume that you have some means of adjusting your amp output (foot pedal or fingertip control).Since you state you don't know what the pulser or sequencer are for, I'm guessing that you don't have a very good understanding of the tig process.  If you were in the US, I would recommend that you order a copy of Miller's Student Pack (available at millerwelds.com).  This student pack includes an excellent handbook on tig welding.  It can also be downloaded from their site.Generally speaking, difficulty in starting/maintaining an arc at low output settings can be attributed to one (or more) things.  Too large a tungsten for the job.  Improper prep of the tungsten.  Too much distance from the tip of the tungsten to the workpiece. Or no covering gas.The hi-freq in DC welding is designed for "arc initiation" and should shut off as soon as the arc is established.From what you've told us, I suspect you are using too large a tungsten and too large a filler for the task at hand.  Using standard conversions, it appears that you are trying to weld base metal approximately just over 1/16", using a 3/32" tungsten and 3/32" filler.If that is the case, your tungsten is too large and will make it difficult to start and maintain an arc at the lower amps you need.  Also your filler is too large for this material.Here's a couple recommendations.Use a 1/16" Thoriated tungsten sharpened to a "pencil point".  Tungsten should be sharpened in line with the length of the tungsten.  Use a grinder or belt sander for this.Use 1/16" filler.Go up in cup size to a 6 or 7 cup.  Larger cup will provide better gas coverage.  Small cups are used when access is limited.Set your machine at 70A and control output with the pedal/fingertip amp control.Place the tungsten about 1/16" to 3/32" away from the base material when starting the arc.  Once the arc starts, maintain an arc length of 1/16" to no more than 1/8".Run several beads (without filler) across the base metal.  Here you're just trying to get used to "controlling the puddle".  See the effect that more/less amps have.  Once you are comfortable with this, you can start practicing adding filler.You need to get your hands on a basic tig book.  Internet can "help" and provide "tips" but it's going to be up to you to get the basics.I suspect, based on your first post, that the "arc is going out" because: 1) arc is too long 2)tungsten is too larger or improperly prepared 3)not enough amps to maintain an arc.An experienced tigger can prep a 3/32" tungsten and do this job, but the larger tungsten will be more difficult for someone new to tig welding.  You need all the help you can get at this point.Oh, and turn off the pulser and sequencer.  They'll just confuse you at this point.  Control the output amps with your remote control.Let us know how it goes.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:IphotI think when you release the button down slope begins and the arc will go out. Releasing the button should happen at the end of your weld.   What happens when you press the button again before the arc quitssg
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIWilliam,NEVER have I heard an arc referred to as a "Silent Beam" nor have I ever had anyone recommend using Hi-Freq for "preheating" the base metal.
Reply:This is his instruction manual. It does have the push start high frequency. A couple different machines I looked at have it. I could see the benefit, though. There are times I wish the high frequency did not come on by itself. But I would want the auto start and continuous as well. http://www.bocworldofwelding.com.au/...aitfile_id/42/On very thin stuff if you are using very low power you might have to hit the high frequency start many times to preheat it enough to form an ARC.I only realized how often my auto high frequency must kick in when I was doing some Touch start welding on stainless. When the part was cold and I had the machine outputting low amperage I had to touch start two or three times on the cold part. But then once warm nothing but pulling back would shut it down.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:There was a link posted on the first page to a vid explaining 2 step/4 step (2t/4t) trigger operation but given the mess courtesy of the idiot/troll/idiotic troll or whatever...2T4Tlphot, Pic of front panel doesn't have enough detail to be of much use but i wouldn't be surprised if the machine is 2t only i.e. press and hold to weld, release the switch and the machine will slope down (amperage winds down over a preset/adjustable time of typically a few secs) before the arc shuts off. Reason for this is that shutting the arc off abrubtly can result in crater and/or pinhole defects
Reply:Billy,You dumbazz.I told the OP to turn the damn sequencer off and learn to tig weld before he started playing with the bells and whistles.He's already told us he didn't know what the pulser or sequencer are for.This is a NEW TIG WELDER. not an experienced guy exploring his machine.If you really believe some of the BS you sling around, you're in worse shape than I thought.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:A look at the manual confirms hotrodder's suspicion. It appears the rightmost toggle chooses MMA/GTAW and the TIG must be "press and hold".Not a bad owners manual BTW, pretty good starter.Matt
Reply:Billy,That chip the aliens installed in your brain has short circuited.  You're like a robot stuck on "replay the same garbage".It doesn't matter how many times you keep repeating yourself, it still doesn't make it right.Please show me in a recognized publication where they use the term "silent beam".Please show me in a recognized publication where they recommend "preheating the base metal with hi-frequency".Last edited by SundownIII; 07-19-2010 at 07:57 PM.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Im kinda curious as to the color of your tungsten because if its green (pure tungsten) then good luck getting that arc to start. I had bought a TIG torch that came with "Electrodes", except they were of the pure tungsten flavor and I couldnt get the arc to start no matter what I tried. I have used the Thoriated (red) and Ceriated (orange) tungsten and have discovered how easy it is to start and maintain the arc, so what color tungsten came with your welder? SQUARE WAVE 175 TIG   DUAL MIG 151
Reply:I know what I know about my machines. I believe I offered everything I know about my machines. That is all I can do. I posted his manual. It does say he has to depress the switch while welding.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:Well his problem should be solved. But to me if the machine is automatically sensing the ARC they should call it automatic high frequency. Like it has been called for over fifty years. But if it is high frequency on demand like some companies call it. Then it is a one shot deal. And you could have some troubles on thin material at low amperage, I am sure. I experienced it for the first time doing lift ARC, on light stainless steel. When I first started the weld I had to re-touch a few times. Once it was warm, no problems.        Sincerely,             William McCormick
Reply:Hi Guys  it is a 2T switch and has to be held while welding not that the guy at the store I bought it from could tell me and all they sell is welding gear and gas. Works well when you hold it on. Now for the pulse mode and the downslope? When should I use these? Keep up the good work guys this is such a great resource I have learnt more about tig in a a couple of days.Greatly appreciate your time.