Suggested Tig machine / help needed

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Hi Guys,I am new to this site as well as being new to welding. I have never weld before in my life. I have been studying the basics and I am ready to put in some hands on trial and errors. I am in the market for a Tig machine. I am hoping someone here can guide me in the right direction on which machine/specs/amp would suit my needs. I don't need anything crazzy or top of the line. But I am looking for something that is updated, reliable and sturdy that would take on the job.I am looking forward to welding and fabricating Turbo systems that would include 1/4" 304 SS header flange, turbo charge pipes, Turbo manifolds, SS, Mild steel. Exhaust systems.Pretty much basic Auto. I know a Mig machine would do but I really rather just get a Tig machine for best quality welds. If anyone has any suggestions on how much I should spend on a used Tig machine for starters and what Amp size that would fit my job application. Please chime in! Thanks,Thanh
Reply:If all you want to do is SS or mild steel then you can get away with a DC only machine. One of the little Miller Maxstars 150sth would be a good choice, or even the new Diversion 165. Your probably in the $1500 range or so.If you want to do Alum you need AC and more power. The Syncrowave 200 or Dynasty 200 would be good starter machines. The Syncro 200 expect to spend about $2100 with bottle, and the dynasty almost 2x that.Used, it all depends on the machine and condition. I've seen a ton of older heavy duty transformer tigs go for as low as $600. The catch is they are BIG, HEAVY and suck a lot of juice. Some want a minimum of a 100 amp breaker to run, also some machines are set up to run 3 phase or more than 220v and are not practical for home use. Thats often why they are so cheap, very few can use them..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Miller Dynasty 200DX if you have to run on 110v, Thermal Arc 185 if you can run on 220v.  Expect to pay new around $3600 for the Dynasty, and less than $2400 for the TA 185.  These are both inverter machines, are small and portable, and will both be easy on the electric bill.  Personally, I would stick with an inverter, but would not buy one that is out of factory warranty.
Reply:Thanks for the input guys.
Reply:I was in the same position as you a couple of years ago and went with the HTP Invertig 200 ac/dc.  With everything, it came out to a little under 3k.  I am very happy with it.  A Dynasty is great and is about 1k more.  Eventually, you're going to want a mig as well.  Once you start welding, especially at home where who knows what might come up, you'll eventually find yourself wanting an ac\dc machine.  Inverter based machines are the way to go.  They are small and light, are energy efficient and, can be run off of minimal service.  I run my HTP on a 220 volt dryer circuit.  If you're short on cash, you can search used listings (Craigslist in particular) and eventually you will find one.  I am glad that I went with a new machine personally.  One advantage to going with a new machine is that you don't have to wonder if something is wrong with the used welder that you just bought because your welds suck.  You'll know that it was something that you did or didn't do.  BTW, I am not pitching for any one brand over another.  I think that all of the major brands are good.  Buy the one that calls to you and then make sure that you use it.  I have seen many used hobby machines that are for sale with almost no use.Rene
Reply:High freq machine with a foot pedal is the ticket. I do like my TA185.I payed $1600.00(floor model) 3 year warranty.THE OLDER I GET! THE  SMARTER MY DAD WAS!Thermal Arc 185 inverter Tig welderABITIG 26  tig torchLotus foot pedalLincoln 225 stick welderClark 185SG Mig spoolgunwelderVictor torch/regulatorsHF36" shear,bender,roller.
Reply:Thanks for chiming in zerepener and cmartman46. Great advice. Got some really useful tips on this forum. 3k for starters wow. lol I was thinking of hoping to invest in something no more then 1500. I have searched on craigslist and there or tons for a good deal. I just need something I can practice out of my garage to fab turbo parts for my NSX that would handle the job NP. Maybe I should try to aim for a new peace. But I highly doubt there are new tig machine going for 1500.
Reply:Maxstar 200SD would be a good choice for a portable DC tig/stick machine with HF start.  Has all the features you need and none that you don't and runs on 110v/220v/440v single- & 3-phase, at a good price too (about $2000), for a quality name-brand machine.  It's the next size up from the Maxstar 150STH.http://store.cyberweld.com/milmax200sd.htmlMM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I really think with your automotive interests you will want to consider something that can do AC. It's only a matter of time before you will want to modify the outlet of a cast aluminum turbo housing, or make and aluminum air box or intake mani, or will want to fix a cracked piece of aluminum. Maybe your interests are different than mine but I couldn't imagine having a tig without AC.It's only about half way done, tacked together and pretty ratty looking at the moment but maybe a little inspiration to play with aluminum.Lincoln precision TIG 275Millermatic 140 MIG
Reply:If you want to go new with a name brand for your budget you're pretty much limited to a Miller Diversion for AC/DC tig.  Basic, easly to use out of the box.  Not a lot of parameters to adjust plus you get TIG Welding for Dummies.  (no, really...)    You could get a small bottle of gas, the welder and enough consumables to start. Even though it wouldn't be my choice you could go with a lower cost import machine.  DC only can be had for not much more than 500 and an AC/DC/SMAW for between 800-1100.  The torches aren't quite as svelte and the consturction of the machines is different but it will get you welding for cheap.  If you go that route research who is selling.  I wouldn't deal with most of those vendors though due to attitude and policy rather than low cost gear.  I think this may be one scenario where a low cost hobbiest welder might make good sense.  If you find you like it, you can always get a bigger name brand unit and if it ends up sitting in your garage for the next year or two doing nothing, you won't be out a couple grand.
Reply:DesertRider33, yoshimitsuspeed, dstevens....Thank you all for the support. yoshimitsuspeed, now that you mention all that. I am now looking for a AC/DC machine. I use to build motors and stuff and had a race shop 9 years back when I was in SD. Now I am in Northern Cali for the time being and want to get back into racing so I will give Laguna Seca raceway a shot. Now that you brought up aluminum parts. Aluminum = Saving weight , StrengthI guess it's a no brainer just to aim for a AC/DC machine while your at it. I will scope out the Miller and Maxstar that DesertRider33 & dstevens recommended. Thanks guys!.. I hope to get one sometime this week and start Fabbing away!!
Reply:Miller's new Diversion 165 AC/DC seems to kinda fit my status at the moment.. Do you guys think this machine would be able to pull off the job I am aiming for? rollcages, turbo parts? intercoolers..etc..Last edited by Thanhnsx; 12-29-2009 at 12:04 PM.
Reply:Not to burst your bubble, but, based on your comments, it's going to take a long time (read practice) before you're ready to tig anything on an automobile.You make it sound like you expect to buy a tig, open the box, and start tigging up headers/manifolds.  With no welding background at all, I'd say you're setting yourself up for a great deal of frustration.Before going out and dropping a couple thousand bucks on a tig machine (the most difficult of the welding processes), I'd suggest you enroll in a welding course at your local community college/tech school.  May open your eyes a bit to what's involved.I would never recommend going out and buying a cheap, Chinese import welder as a starter unit.  You're better served buying a used name brand that you can have serviced (parts available) for years to come.  Too many of the "cheap" Chinese welders become expensive doorstops before their time.Basically, what I'm saying about all this is that your expectations, with regards to tig, may far exceed the reality of the situation.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:The Diversion has a few down sides from my stand point. First it is underpowered for alum tig. Even a 200 amp machine like my syncrowave is slightly underpowered to do 3/16" alum. Alum needs a lot more heat than steel because the material is such a good heat sink. In some ways I wished I had gotten a sync 250 instead of the sync 200 so I would have the extra amps for 1/4" alum. You also give up some of the advanced functions like pulse and balance adj IIRC with the Diversion over the sync 200. Another thing is the Diversion is strictly a tig machine. You don't have the option to use it for stick welding like the Sync 200 or the TA185. While you may just want to do tig, the ability to use stick if you need to do heavy steel is a nice option to have available with out having to take up the extra room.Cost wise you only save maybe $300-500 over the better sync 200 if you shop around. You end up with a machine that won't be as saleable in the future if you try to up grade to a higher powered machine. Also if you look at the stick function, thats less than it would cost you to buy a new AC/DC stick machine..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIINot to burst your bubble, but, based on your comments, it's going to take a long time (read practice) before you're ready to tig anything on an automobile.You make it sound like you expect to buy a tig, open the box, and start tigging up headers/manifolds.  With no welding background at all, I'd say you're setting yourself up for a great deal of frustration.Before going out and dropping a couple thousand bucks on a tig machine (the most difficult of the welding processes), I'd suggest you enroll in a welding course at your local community college/tech school.  May open your eyes a bit to what's involved.I would never recommend going out and buying a cheap, Chinese import welder as a starter unit.  You're better served buying a used name brand that you can have serviced (parts available) for years to come.  Too many of the "cheap" Chinese welders become expensive doorstops before their time.Basically, what I'm saying about all this is that your expectations, with regards to tig, may far exceed the reality of the situation.
Reply:>>Not to burst your bubble, but, based on your comments, it's going to take a long time (read practice) before you're ready to tig anything on an automobile.You make it sound like you expect to buy a tig, open the box, and start tigging up headers/manifolds. With no welding background at all, I'd say you're setting yourself up for a great deal of frustration.Before going out and dropping a couple thousand bucks on a tig machine (the most difficult of the welding processes), I'd suggest you enroll in a welding course at your local community college/tech school. May open your eyes a bit to what's involved.I would never recommend going out and buying a cheap, Chinese import welder as a starter unit. You're better served buying a used name brand that you can have serviced (parts available) for years to come. Too many of the "cheap" Chinese welders become expensive doorstops before their time.Basically, what I'm saying about all this is that your expectations, with regards to tig, may far exceed the reality of the situation.>Not to burst your bubble, but, based on your comments, it's going to take a long time (read practice) before you're ready to tig anything on an automobile.You make it sound like you expect to buy a tig, open the box, and start tigging up headers/manifolds. With no welding background at all, I'd say you're setting yourself up for a great deal of frustration.Before going out and dropping a couple thousand bucks on a tig machine (the most difficult of the welding processes), I'd suggest you enroll in a welding course at your local community college/tech school. May open your eyes a bit to what's involved.I would never recommend going out and buying a cheap, Chinese import welder as a starter unit. You're better served buying a used name brand that you can have serviced (parts available) for years to come. Too many of the "cheap" Chinese welders become expensive doorstops before their time.Basically, what I'm saying about all this is that your expectations, with regards to tig, may far exceed the reality of the situation.>I can promise you this, that I will for-sure make it to the promise land. Hopefully you will also... <<Amen.Working on cars and bikes is my hobby, learning to weld the pieces together is my quest.
Reply:I linked to this forum to read some info on buying a tig welder.  After reading this forum i was a little ticked off!  I can "weld" , but I am not a welder. I have welded for over 20 years, and I still do not consider myself a welder because I do not weld as my trade.  I am a maintenance man at a production facility.  I have welded numerous tools, parts, etc., that have held up through the years, including parts that have lifted parts weighing over 3K pounds, and tools that have held equipment weighing over 2k pounds over myself and fellow co-workers.  So, I have a little real world experience.Thanhnsx, you think you can pick up a welder because it looks easy and do it? You think you can search on the internet, get a cheap deal on a welder and figure it out in a day or 2?  My old man welded his whole life, does that make me a welder, NO ( he has laid thousands of hours of weld, both stick and tig).  I'm sure many of the guys here would be greatly offended you saying that welding is easy, or I will be able to figure it out in a few weeks.  Welding only looks easy because the videos that you have watched were done by professionals (like the guys that are here).  When a  job is done by a professional, looks like it is easy, it is because the tradesman is GOOD at what he does.
Reply:Thanhnsx, you think you can pick up a welder because it looks easy and do it?
Reply:I would have to say in reading this post your responses made it seem like learning to tig weld would be an easy 1-2-3 step type of undertaking.  Everybody is different in the amount of time it takes to learn and master a process.  Taking a class could greatly reduce time it takes to learn and also keep you from learning bad habits.  Classes at a CC can be relatively cheap when you consider how much gas and filler you can go through.  In the type of work you are planning to do, and possibly sell some of your work, you are looking to obtain a professional level of quality.  In tigging your quality (work) is going to be your signature.  I would forget about the lws for any advice since finding someone who really knows what there doing is rare and would be making money else where, besides you have your Dad.
Reply:Cool man, I wish you much luck, and congratulations on the lincoln 225.  I agree with Jay O, have someone that has a LOT of experience to help you out, you will save a lot of money, and a lot of hair!
Reply:A few things.  You WILL NEVER learn to weld with out a machine of your own.I have had a TA-185 for about 4 years.  It makes me money and has never caused any trouble.  Great on aluminum and carbon steel for tig.  Not so hot for stick especially 7018.  Cost ;me about 2100.Hang around here and you will learn to tig weld.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I have used two different Thermal Arc TIG machines extensively on the job and I liked them both. Two different employers, but the same machine (I forget the mod. #'s) with all the bells and whistles.Darn nice machines.I was lucky enough to get a Dynasty 200 DX which I do totally love for the amperage it is given the portability and features.Having only one machine, the capability to weld stick is important to me.I don't recall if the TA can do stick- we were only welding stainless, aluminum or titanium with TIG.To the OP:Don't worry, you'll eventually figure out how to weld.At the same time, when a knowledgeable fellow (regardless of if he is younger than you- it'll happen, believe me!) offers some advise, taking it in is the prudent thing to do. Some older folks don't give up their hard-earned lessons easily, and when they do I consider it an honour.Good luck with your new machine! Has your Dad been over to weld yet?Last edited by Marcel Bauer; 01-22-2010 at 01:50 AM.[B]Forever learning[B].
Reply:I expect you will be posting some weld pics soon in a different thread? Take your time with this. You seem like a cocky kid but you should remember, if welding is as easy as you think it is, anyone could do it and I would be out of a job.It will take some time before I would sit in a vehicle with one or your roll cages. The hardest part of welding is troubleshooting. That takes experience. Even someone like you that doesnt do well in a classroom can benefit from a quarter of community college. A welding class is WAY different than english or math. You will get a safety orientation then weld weld weld. Good luck
Reply:If you don't already have the "other stuff" (or access to someone elses stuff) factor in another $800.00+ for Argon tank, cart, grinders, clamps, magnets, gloves, helmet, cutting tool (bandsaw or abrasive), etc. etc.  It all adds up very fast.
Reply:I know it's been like 6 months, but I would like to thank everyone on this thread for your help and guidance/ suggestions. If you have the extra cash and time, go take a welding class like SundownIII said! I ended up getting the PT225 and I love it so far. I think it's perfect for what I'm doing. That is exhuast, turbo manifolds and intercooler tubings. But then again, I only made like 3 passes with this machine. But so far so good. Very easy to use for noobies like me. I've been extremely busy and caught up with other priorities in life. I finally managed to get a 50amp into the electric panel to power up my machine which I had my cousin do cause I know nothing when it comes to wiring elec stuff. I would like to share to everyone here my first tig passes that I made. There horrible welds I know. But as time goes by, I know I can perfect it. Enjoy everyone. Comments and critics are welcome. 40amps, 3/32 308 SS, steel srap tubesWelder: Precision Lincoln Tig 225First pass ever, buring holes into the tube.  Second pass, mainly fused, played with filler a little.Third pass w/ filler. I think I may be using a too big of a size filler.Lincoln Precision tig 225 | First machine! yeaaah
Reply:I'm not a pro and I'm sure there will be others here with better advice, but I'll offer a few things.Put the tubing away and get some flat scrap to weld. Welding tubing is difficult and will really slow down your learning curve. Also, mild steel is fine to start and it's cheaper.Without starting an arc, work on moving the torch with your hand in a smooth motion. Don't anchor your palm and rock your hand or you'll only ever weld 2" at a time. Learn to guide your hand down the material in a smooth motion while keeping your tip a constant distance from the work.Once you get comfortable with the above. Put the filler away and practice running an arc in a straight line on your material. Watch the puddle and try to keep it a constant size while moving at a consistant speed. Try to keep the heat affected zone a constant size and work on smooth hand motions (and not dunking the tungsten every few seconds).Once you get those down. Run the same straight lines but start adding filler to that puddle. Just run beads on flat stock/scrap. Once you get to where you can lay down a reasonably consistant bead, lay another section of scrap on your first one and try a basic lap joint. Melt both materials and add filler to the puddle. It can be tricky at first to get both parts to melt. Once you see both metals form puddles, give it a dip of filler and move a bit. Watch how the puddle responds and experiment with adding filler and your hand motions.Beyond that and the suggestion to take classes, read everything you can, buy books, videos, check the manufacturers websites (Miller has a really good (and free) 4 part video series on learning to Tig that's on their website), get help from people who are better than you and ask for advice (and listen when it's given).And, material can never be "too clean" to tig weld. Clean everything. Wipe your welding rod with acetone, clean the base metal and wipe it down, grind mill scale off of hot rolled steel. If it's not clean, you'll waste hours of time and money (gas/filler) trying to weld dirty steel.Just my thoughts.Edit: Oh, and get a metal bench that won't burn. Something you can place materials on and actually weld on. Trying to hold things in mid air and weld them is really going to make things hard on you.KevinHobart Handler 210Tweco Fabricator 181iLincoln Squarewave Tig 175