Beginner questions....

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So I've been reading on here like crazy, and after upgrading to a Lincoln with gas I have a few questions. Machine is a power mig 140c75/25 argon/co2Wire is super arc L56 - came with welder. First, I don't get the sizzling sound that I've read about. I just hear the whoosh of the gas and once the arc is going I just see the puddle forming and maybe some occasional noise but definitely no sizzle.  I had the flow set between 30-40, and varied it while I went but never out of that recommended range. Second, I'm getting brown soot after the welds. It wipes off, but I didn't expect to see it.  Sometimes it's just outside the weld, sometimes it's covering a lot Now, as I prepared this post, I went back to the Lincoln - learn to weld manual, and believe I answered my own question.  According to the manual, these problems seem to be a result of poor welding position, and too much stick out. Is the solution going to be that simple, just fix position and stick out, or is there something else I should look for?Also, I'm pulling the puddle. In the book it said pushing was the correct one for mig. I initially tried both but thought I was getting similar results by pulling, perhaps I was wrong. Thanks!Last edited by Brownfaux; 02-19-2013 at 12:30 PM.
Reply:30-40 cfh? If I'm not mistaken your wire is solid copper coated. Crank your flowmeter down to about 1/2 of that to start with , clean the base metal & tweek your settings.Last edited by Old Skool; 02-19-2013 at 12:12 PM.REAL TRUCKS DON'T HAVE SPARK PLUGS
Reply:Got it. I was thinking it might be high, but it was what the manual said.
Reply:Here is a pic of one of the better welds. Not going to lie, some are pretty bad, but you can see the soot.  Also this was at the beginning of the day, the soot got worse as I went.
Reply:Originally Posted by BrownfauxIs the solution going to be that simple, just fix position and stick out, or is there something else I should look for?
Reply:About 1/4-3/8" stick out would be a good starting point. That "woosh' your hearing is the sheilding gas sound drowning out the sound of the sizzleing you are listening for. You will be needing a new bottle of it soon at this rate.Last edited by Bistineau; 02-19-2013 at 01:20 PM.
Reply:If I had to put a number on the stick out I'd say I was around 1 inch to 1 and a half inches.And why on earth is lincoln telling me to use so much gas?Last edited by Brownfaux; 02-19-2013 at 02:20 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by BrownfauxLol, I can't put a number on the stick out I had been using.  All I know is it was probably more than recommended.So going off that I would expect an improvement. Are there cases you'd want more stick out?And why on earth is lincoln telling me to use so much gas?
Reply:You're too fast, I edited that to make it more clear. Lol
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauAbout 1/4-3/8" stick out would be a good starting point. That "woosh' your hearing is the sheilding gas sound drowning out the sound of the sizzleing you are listening for. You will be needing a new bottle of it soon at this rate.
Reply:Sounds good. I also found something online about adjusting my wire speed until I get the sizzle. There's just so much to this......  I have tons of respect for the pros. This is an art.
Reply:Here is a video that might help.
Reply:Good video, thanks!
Reply:Just found some videos on Lincoln's website. They say 15cfh for the same size machine I am using.  I am going to turn it down, but I really want to understand why the owners manual says 30-40?
Reply:Are you sure they're referring to CFH and not some other form of measurement?  I only ask because my regulator (for a miller 211) has two sets of numbers on it. In black numbers is the CFH and in red numbers is a different kind of measurement, I think it may be LPH I can't remember for sure.
Reply:I thought of that, and after reading you post I looked into it more. My gauge reads SCFH. Apparently there is a difference between SCFH and CFH. Anyway I know to tune it down now, but still am a little confused.
Reply:You can push or pull a mig bead with gas.  If its gas less flux core, then you need to pull (when there's slag you drag).  I feel that pushing gives me a better view of the puddle.There two different brows on your puddle.  The outside brown is contaminating from dirty material.  The small tan spots on the bead itself are silicon lakes, it's normal and is the silicon coming out of the steel wire.Also, make sure you changed the polarity of your machine when you changed from flux core to gas.  It's DCEP for solid core and DCEN for flux core.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Well no confusion anymore. I checked the manual again, and it said 7 to 10 liters per minute, or 30-40 CFH.   My regulator reads LpM and SCFH. It is the regulator that came with the Lincoln. Surprise surprise, 7-10 Lpm is right around 15 SCFH.  the cheat sheet also said 30-40 CFH so I guess I focused on that rather than the LPM. Anyway, I'm sure none of you are too concerned, but the difference in units of measurement and recommended settings seems weird to me.
Reply:What DRF255 said...did you check polarity?
Reply:Yeah checked that, it's set up like it should be.
Reply:SCFH (standard cubic foot per hour) of gas is measured at 60ºF (519.7R) and 14.696 psia. CFH (cubic foot per hour) is measured at any temperature and pressure."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:I wouldn't worry about what the manual said.  it could easily be a mistake.  I run 15-20 scfh/cfh.  I don't recall what my gauge says.  LOL I just turned to 15-20 and never really tried to read the fine pring to see if it had an "s" or not.Your bead looks very consistent.  I would say (like others) that your stickout is too far thus effecting your voltage and not giving you a proper audible.  I can turn my wire speed down so that there is little to no sound.  more of a hiss than anything.
Reply:Cool thanks. What's killing me is I'm in my work week now and I haven't found time to go try again!
Reply:So I set my kid down with a snack and hurried up to try the proper settings. Obviously my gas was way too high and my wire speed was way too low. Fixed that and got the sizzle.  Also fixed my stick out and torch angle,  and can see the difference it makes. Still have some brown soot around the weld though. Thanks for all your patience with a pain in the butt noob.
Reply:It's good for a change to see someone with the right attitude when asking for advice, some of the wannabee hacks that come on these forums ask for opinions then want to argue about the replies they get.Best of luck to you & your welding.REAL TRUCKS DON'T HAVE SPARK PLUGSThanks for the kind words. Unfortunately, I'm all too familiar with being wrong, as well as learning the hard way. I get excited and jump into stuff, then research if it doesn't go right. Some questions are hard to find the answer to, especially if you aren't asking it the right way. Believe me, if you guys need any help in my areas of expertise (guitars, music, legal issues, marriages,lol) I'm all over it. I'm impressed with how forgiving this board is with noobs. I've sampled many forums over the years, this is probably the most mature. Anyway, thanks to the help here and some trolling, and reading, and watching, I was able to lay down some decent beads tonight. Yeah I'm on the "mig like tig" bandwagon, it just looks so cool!*sigh, and yes it's a wood table, and I realized how dumb it was to make a welding table out of wood the first time it caught on fire. I've already priced the 1/4 inch steel plate for my table. Just got to plan the build itself.  I'm thinking if making a table that folds up against the wall when not in use. Anyway....
Reply:Originally Posted by BrownfauxI'm impressed with how forgiving this board is with noobs. I've sampled many forums over the years, this is probably the most mature.
Reply:While it is not really the correct surface for welding, if for some reason you can't find the money for a steel plate, you can get free 1 inch thick slate from stores that sell pool tables.  When 1 of the 3 in a matched set breaks, the others are usually scrapped.They are very flat and very heavy.  Makes a good work surface for projects, and at least it won't catch on fire like wood...but you can't put the ground electrode on it and plop your parts on to weld (obviously slate doesn't conduct).
Reply:If you try to pull or clamp something flat that has a slight bow in it, that slate is gonna crack.  If it free, give it a shot, but don't pay for it.
Reply:Originally Posted by AlbieIf you try to pull or clamp something flat that has a slight bow in it, that slate is gonna crack.  If it free, give it a shot, but don't pay for it.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWObviously you must be new... You haven't been around long enough to see how childish some guys can get over some things. Your travel speed on that last bead is too fast. You can tell from the V shaped ripples. Also you need to tighten up your motions and make smaller circles. That's why there is that "gap" between each of your "dimes". Double, if not triple, the number of circles you make as you travel the same distance going along. This will also probably force you to slow down.Also post up your settings, material thickness, machine etc, each time so we know all the info. IIRC you are running a little 140 Lincoln. Material looks like 1/8". It's really easy to make "pretty" beads with very little penetration on material that thick since you are pushing the practical limits of that machine. If you aren't running close to maxed out, chances are even if the bead does look nice, it's still cold.
Reply:Edit**. I guess I posted it before I cleaned it so you can see the discoloration.  I took another pic at an angle showing that its not tall, and looks sunk into the material. Doesn't look like a 1/2 inch ring either, my bad.
Reply:You mentioned the "mig like tig" so I assumed you were running e's or circles. Honestly the motion doesn't matter as long as you are getting the results you want and a good bead. Personally I don't like circles. I just find it harder to see and read the puddle that way. Given a choice I run a C or Z shape most times, but I change motions depending on position and type of joint. That said I regularly run E's or circles to show students how it's done, then mid bead switch to a C shape and then just a straight stringer. When I'm done most really can't tell where I switched over. It's not about the motion, it's about manipulating the puddle and getting the result. Since I can read and manipulate the puddle, I can get the same mig look from all three motions, but it's generally not the mig like tig look. Until you learn to read the puddle, doing a simple pattern is the best way to get decent results so you can learn what to look for. You need to find what works for you.As far as penetration, it's hard to tell from a flat plate. It's easier with joints. If you really want to see what penetration you are getting, you can cut and etch the weld. Rick V did a good post on etching for the hobbyist. You can clearly see where the weld bonded to the base material in the detailed close ups.http://weldingweb.com/showpost.php?p...8&postcount=47Another suggestion for a fire proof top would be the cement backer board they use for tile. It comes in 3x5' sheets usually. You can cut it with a saw ( blade depends on which type you get) or score it with a utility knife and snap it. It won't take a lot of pounding, but it does hold up reasonably well to light to medium abuse..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Try grinding you metal to white metal and see if that eliminates you soot.
Reply:Sweet. Any idea on how to communicate my settings with the numbered speed and lettered voltage settings?I got a quote for a 2x3 foot piece of 1/4 steel from a local supplier. I was thinking of picking that up in the next few days. I've run into a few situations already where I have wanted the ability to weld without sticking my giant ground clamp on a small work piece. As far as cleaning more, I will. Does it help to clean a large area very well, or just the area to be welded?Edit* meant to put the price was quoted at 55$. Is that decent?Last edited by Brownfaux; 02-22-2013 at 02:27 PM.
Reply:Sorry, I meant to comment on your settings earlier. It really doesn't matter all that much just what the settings are by how they are designated. With letters and numbers it does help to also list what the manufacturer suggests along with your settings, or at least mention that you are running at D out of A thru J for example. Lincoln unfortunately doesn't list the suggested settings in the manual like Miller does, so we can't just look them up. If someone does have a similar machine, they can tell whether your settings are close or not. Even with out knowing the exact settings, I can usually guess if you are way low or not if I know the range you have to work with and the setting you used.With experience, the chart inside the door almost becomes unnecessary. I can usually "guess" pretty close to what setting I need to use on my buddies small MM135 without looking at the door chart. My MM185 has 6 taps and the wire speed is listed 1-10. I can usually dial in pretty close just from experience and taking a quick look at the door suggestions. It makes it a bit more difficult when I go to the tech school and then have to set up on the XMT's that list actual volts and wire speed. Again thru experience and knowing what the day instructor usually suggests the students set the machines at, I've dialed in on what settings I need to set up the machines on for the students.If anything, when in doubt, go high, especially in the flat position. When asked about setting the XMT's , I often show the students that I can weld 1/8" material with settings in the 17-18v range as well as settings way up in the high 20's. You just have to move a whole lot faster when the voltage is on 29 vs 18. With a small machine unless you are doing thin sheet, too much voltage is seldom your main problem. Not enough usually is. Wire is adjusted by how the machine reacts and sounds. I was playing a bit last night with my voltage sensing feeder and solid wire in spray running off  constant current since that question has been asked a lot recently, and I have access to a spray capable mix at the tech school. I don't have any suggested wire speeds to go from for this, so I simply cranked the wire way up to start with so I wouldn't fuse the wire to the tip, then backed it down based on how the bead was reacting. If you really want to know true wire speed, cut the wire flush with the tip, pull the trigger and time off say 10 seconds. Then measure what the length of wire is and multiply by 6 to get inches per minute. Note than on many small machines wire speed will vary based on what voltage tap you are on. Tap A and a "6" might get you 60" per minute, while tap E and "6" might get you 240" per minute, since they are driving the feed motor with the power from the voltage tap many times.As far as your steel price, I didn't look last week at what my supplier wants for 1/4". I picked up a 2x4' sheet of 14 ga for somewhere around $20. That's a bit more than 1/3rd the thickness, so price per pound sounds roughly similar to what I paid..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by BrownfauxSweet. Any idea on how to communicate my settings with the numbered speed and lettered voltage settings??
Reply:spend some time on utube and look for mig or welding videos and there whill be lots you can pick up.Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by Brownfaux....I'm impressed with how forgiving this board is with noobs. I've sampled many forums over the years, this is probably the most mature....
Reply:Makes sense.  I'm assuming 1/4 inch is decent thickness for a table? I've seen a few threads where the guys are going 1/2 inch, but since I'm only working on small stock that has no precision requirement, I think I'll be fine. Now, last night I turned the settings down to work on some 14 gauge square  tubing. It was harder to get a decent looking weld. The sizzle was quieter and the puddle started off way smaller. I had a hard time getting it to expand without going through. I need to play with my heat and travel speed. Definitely hard to work on the thin stuff for me right now. This is such an addiction. I thought I would be happy just to make two pieces of metal stick, but I am determined to make it look right and be a proper weld!
Reply:Weird, you guys must have posted while I was writing that. Yeah, I was hesitant to start asking been questions, because you guys go to school for this, so I could understand wanting to be guarded with some secrets. But really, I'll freely give advice on my specialties, because there's no replacement for years of experience. There's only so much that you can pass on. Anyway, I actually took a pic of the face of the machine when I felt I had it dialed in for the 1/8 inch angle iron. I ran a lap joint and thought it looked good. I saw the effects of pre heating last night too. First few beads responded one way, then others on the piping hot square tube were over penetrating. So much to adjust!My main problem is I get excited to finish something, like my welding car and spew a bunch of crappy welds then want to rebuild it. I guess that's how I like to learn though, design, redesign, rebuild. More fun for me to be engaged when I'm doing something I can see and use afterward. Anyway, of any of you guys are in Utah, I owe you a beer.
Reply:Also, what size wire should I be using?I got a 2lb spool of .025 that's I'm almost through.  I bought a 11 lb spool of 030, but I need to buy a drive roll for it. Should I go to 030 or stick with 025?  In working on small stock of course.
Reply:I keep  .023 wire in my small mig primarily because all I use it for is sheet metal. On my larger 230v mig I usually keep .030 wire. Your unit will run both. The larger wire can make doing thinner sheet a bit more difficult and you get a bit more "adjustment" out of smaller wire on average. That said, if I was trying to do a fair amount of 14 ga or 1/8" with that small unit and almost never did thinner stuff, I'd be tempted to run .030 wire..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by BrownfauxSo I set my kid down with a snack and hurried up to try the proper settings. Obviously my gas was way too high and my wire speed was way too low. Fixed that and got the sizzle.  Also fixed my stick out and torch angle,  and can see the difference it makes. Still have some brown soot around the weld though. Thanks for all your patience with a pain in the butt noob.
Reply:Copy. Turns out my 025 drive roll works for 030. So I'm all set there. Tonight I cleaned with flap discs and got it looking much better, ended up with less brown powder. Still there, but less.
Reply:You're also getting help because you started out by doing some reading and double checking on your own. My suggestions are1. Grind the mill scale off the area you are going to weld and grind the area where you attach your ground clamp so you get a good connection.2. Like you noticed, it takes a few seconds for things heat up so hold a moment to let things warm up before you proceed. When things get too hot, then get  out of the kitchen and let it cool. Move to a different joint or just wait it out.3. Most of the action is happening at the edges of the puddle. That should be the focus of your attention.  Put your face right up close, so you can see good and and entire little world will "open up". Hope that helps a bit.
Reply:Heavy construction going on in the garage. 20" x 40" 3/16 sheet welding table top going in. Going on the wall with hinges to fold up. Right below the window with a bathroom fan and a mount to move the fan right over where I'm welding to vent fumes out the window.More hood time coming.......
Reply:Ok, already want a heavier table top, but that will have to wait until I get a bigger house and have more room for a shop. But I see the benefit of having a heavy table. 2nd, experienced some warping in my wagon frame, seemed like an easy fix, just needed to clamp it all down and put a lot of weight on it after cutting a weld or two off. I was able to heat it just a tiny bit with a small butane torch, but this just made me want to get a torch I can use that will be adequate for the job. I've seen kits at lowes for propane torches, and I may be wrong but I thought I saw a tiny oxy/acetylene setup. Will propane be enough for heating small stock just enough to bend or twist when needed?  I want you guys to say propane because it looks the cheapest, but I'll accept whatever answer I get. Lol.
Reply:Skip the small OA torch sets at Depot/Lowes. The cylinders are too small. Propane kits they seel are really too small for heating and bending steel as well. If they still sell the air acetylene kits ( you'll need to get at least a "B" sized cylinder separately) they will work for very small thin steel, but are really for soldering.Best bet is to look on CL for a good used set with cylinders. Add your location to your User CP at the top left so we know where you are, and someone might help clue you in to a CL deal if they see one..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Meh, that sounds expensive. I'm talking heating and bending 1/8 inch thick, and smaller, square and round stock. Propane really won't be enough?I can't see buying any bigger setup, I'm going to run out of space.