Dirty welds

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I spent a few hours yesterday running welds trying to get going here.  After cleaning the slag and splatter I noticed that the welds are partially discolored (dark grayish).  I was wondering what that means and how can I fix it?  Do I need to clean the metal pieces better before welding them?I am running the WeldPak w/ .035" fluxcore NR211MP it came with on some 14ga steel metal edging scrap using "High 2" heat range, "9" wire speed.Oh, I had a good fight with the roll of wire (one hand loading is a trick).  I'm thinking when this1lb runs out I'm going to get a big 10lb so I don't have that fight as often   I also found I push better than pull.Last edited by Monica; 08-21-2010 at 10:17 AM.Reason: added infoLincoln AC225 and CartLincoln WeldPak HD and CartOne hand
Reply:Can't help with the weld, but as for fighting with wire. Remember that if the wire uncoils, off the spool, it's twist ties. You must keep the wire tight on the roll as you install it. Can't just re-wrap it. It looses it's twist and can cause feed problems.200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:That NR211 kinda tends to look like that if everything isn't just right. It's fairly sensitive on the voltage vs current (wire speed) relationship. It's picky on the stickout too. Try to adjust it to where you have a nice even dusty slag coverage. Watch the puddle behind you real close on the travel."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:To hold down wire on something like that... U need to go find some magnets to place where u need 'em,  ,maybe ~ cow magnets ~ which are about 2-3" long and strong (they use them in the gut of cows to collect the metal they ingest).   That will help hold it in place while U work. Sorry I did get a small smile when I thought of U trying to do that, even with 2 good hands and poor eyesight it gets away from me regularly. Good luck: .Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:I'll mess around with the heat range switch and speed and see if I can find a sweet spot.  No worries on the chuckle - I've got some goofed up methods to get things done and the only way to get around it is to laugh.  And I completely see why a table and cart are the first things a person builds.  My neck is sore from kneeling on the ground and looking down to work on my pieces - and I'm a short girl.  The first time I got the spool installed it unraveled.  I don't think I've been that surprised since the first time I ever played with a jack-in-the-box.  I managed to get it all back together and welded for a bit until the wire bound and broke so I had to redo it.  The unraveling wire isn't an unfamiliar occurrence.  When I wind new bobbins for work I gotta take care getting the fresh bobbin from the winding wheel to the case.  I've had some good fights with inanimate objects Lincoln AC225 and CartLincoln WeldPak HD and CartOne hand
Reply:If you can find a wide rubber band long enough it might work to hold the wire yet let you unroll it enough to get it threaded and clamped down in the rollers. Then just remove the rubber band.                         HTH,                                  MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Mike, no big rubber bands on hand but it does give me an idea.  I can fab up a suede or leather wrap.  I've got plenty of material here I can experiment with.Lincoln AC225 and CartLincoln WeldPak HD and CartOne hand
Reply:All my spools have holes in the side to feed the wire into to keep it in place. Feed it through and bend it to stay hooked in.200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:Originally Posted by bert the welderAll my spools have holes in the side to feed the wire into to keep it in place. Feed it through and bend it to stay hooked in.
Reply:Originally Posted by MonicaI noticed that the welds are partially discolored (dark grayish).
Reply:The dull grey does happen with too much heat.  Can also be from impurities.With fluxcore, it's best to drag the torch rather than pushing it.  Pushing fluxcore can result in slag entrapment in the weld.I first load the spool on the spindle and put on the spindle 'nut', without messing with the wire itself just yet.  This ensures no wire un-rolling while handling the spool.  Then I un-hook the wire end from the spool, cut off the bent end, straighten the last 3 or so inches of it in my fingers, then put it into the wire guide tube and clamp it down with the roller.  Accidents can happen at any time in this trade, unfortunately.   Good to see you learning the welding skill despite your injury.  All the best to you.  MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:You'll need the Spindle adapter to run the bigger spools of wirehttp://www.buyweld.com/m15445-1.htmlLWS may have one in stockEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1You'll need the Spindle adapter to run the bigger spools of wirehttp://www.buyweld.com/m15445-1.htmlLWS may have one in stock
Reply:The method Desertrider mentions works great.The little rolls are a PIA, the tension nut starts to loosen while welding and then whammo BirdsnestEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:That brings up the question of why they all don't put left hand threads on the spindle???                                  MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Hey Monica,I see DR33 got to the response to "drag"(pull) the f/c wire instead of "push". That will insure much better penetration. I use NR211MP 90% of the time & use both .030 & .035. I didn't notice anyone suggesting to try some .030 that may render you better results. I like it up to 1/4". You may have to play with heat/w-f a bit, but you will find the "sweet spot". DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey Monica,I see DR33 got to the response to "drag"(pull) the f/c wire instead of "push". That will insure much better penetration. I use NR211MP 90% of the time & use both .030 & .035. I didn't notice anyone suggesting to try some .030 that may render you better results. I like it up to 1/4". You may have to play with heat/w-f a bit, but you will find the "sweet spot". Denny
Reply:That 211MP really does favor a lower voltage at around 15-17ish or so. That's something to think about. I like to run higher so I moved on to either Hobarts' T-11 or someone elses. Not that I don't like the Lincoln wire, just other brands seem more forgiving. They're all pretty good, even the Forney. The Lincoln is finicky is all. I've noticed it's getting a little tougher to get the .030 in the 8" rolls without hunting for it or paying premium prices. I haven't ran any .030 in quite awhile."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Thanks Sandy, I'll keep that in mind..  Lowes and HD carry the Lincoln consumables while Northern Tool down the road carries Hobart.  Lowes has the better prices of the three; NT the most expensive, but usually the better accessory/tools selection.  I surely helps me to have options.Lincoln AC225 and CartLincoln WeldPak HD and CartOne hand
Reply:Depending on which spindle shaft is in your welder, The newest has a metal wing nut and a plastic keyed washer, The older design has an allen set screw in side the shaft that is a stop for the plastic thumb screw. It is adjusted for proper brake tension and keeps the thumb screw from moving. Try using an oval circle as you weld. I find with flux core I get a better looking bead than if I use round circles. It's like a back step. The second pass floats the flux up and smooths it out.
Reply:Originally Posted by ccawgcDepending on which spindle shaft is in your welder, The newest has a metal wing nut and a plastic keyed washer, The older design has an allen set screw in side the shaft that is a stop for the plastic thumb screw. It is adjusted for proper brake tension and keeps the thumb screw from moving. Try using an oval circle as you weld. I find with flux core I get a better looking bead than if I use round circles. It's like a back step. The second pass floats the flux up and smooths it out.
Reply:My favorite fluxcore wire in .035 size is McKay Speedsheild GS, which is an E71T-GS wire for general purpose and galvanized use.   This, I believe, is the same wire as Hobart Fabsheild 23, which is also a T-GS wire.  Other fluxcore wire I like is Hobart Fabsheild 21B, which is an E71T-11 wire that I run in .045 size in the Suitcase feeder for thicker applications.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Thanks DR.  I'm going to pick up more wire today along with a few errands so I'm debating which size and how much.  I'd like to try the .030 to see what it's like but I'm not convinced I should give up on the .035.I took a look at the spool and flipped the spacer around so that it was the short lip sitting against the spool instead of the long lip that Lincoln has pictured.  It relieved the drag enough to not squeak when feeding but it still seems like more drag than is necessary.Lincoln AC225 and CartLincoln WeldPak HD and CartOne hand
Reply:?? Lincoln's NR211 is a relatively 'easy' wire to run IMHO.It -is- made to run with a relatively low voltage, especially compared to some other wires (solid with gas or fluxcore).  But that is kind of what it is made to do, run with the smaller lower-powered 'home' welders (not that it can't run with bigger 'industrial' welders, they just turn the voltage down a bit).Also, on a small Lincoln machine running Lincoln NR211 wire, the manual and/or door chart -usually- give suggested machine settings that are pretty close.  On a small tapped-voltage Lincoln, I seem to remember that the 'suggested' voltage tap for running NR211 was usually OK but I sometimes tweaked the WFS a little bit.Hmmm, if you are running the machine off of a 'long' extension that is marginal in size (AWG) for the machine's amperage draw you may have a bit of voltage drop in the extension cord going on.  That could interfere with the machine being able to put out the desired voltage and amperage a bit.  Also, if your voltage at the outlet is a bit low (POCO running on the low side, marginal house wiring, etc) that could have an effect on the machine (and your welds) as well.Regarding using 0.030 or 0.035 fluxcore wire, a generalization is that fluxcore usually runs 'hotter' than solid wire and that you can sort of think of a roughly 'equivalent' solid wire size as the next smaller size of solid wire (ignoring the 'hotter' factor).  So 0.035 fluxcore wire is about the 'same' as an 0.030 solid wire and 0.030 fluxcore is about the 'same' as 0.023/0.025 wire.  This is because part of the size of the fluxcore wire is the actual flux core.  As to the contact tip size, use the tip size that matches the wire size.    0.035 wire ?  Use the 0.035 contact tip.  0.030 wire?  Use the 0.030 contact tip.  (fine print note:  aluminum wire is sometimes different, because the aluminum expands much more when heated compared to steel, so a -slightly- bigger tip size or a 'special' made-for-aluminum tip is used which is -slightly- oversized compared to its marked size.)Also regarding sizes, make sure (or double check) that the drive roller(s) are correctly sized for the wire being used.And then, once you have the correct drive rollers and contact tip size for the wire being used, remember that the spool only has to be tightened just enough to keep it from unraveling itself.  Any tighter than that and you are just making the drive rollers and drive motor work harder than they should and possibly causing feed speed problems.  Feed speed problems = problems when welding because the wire is not feeding smoothly and consistently.For a general-purpose name-brand fluxcore wire, it's kind of hard to beat a 10 lb spool of NR211 from Lowes at ~$40.  Cheaper wires are usually, well, cheaper.    And more expensive wires are more expensive.Also, if you were using the 'little' 4 inch diameter spools, they kind of may feed a bit erratically (= welding problems) towards the end of the spool.  That's because the small spool has the wire wrapped pretty tightly around the small spool and the geometry of the spool to the feed rollers and such gets a bit 'iffy'.  If your machine can use the 8 inch diameter spools (10-12 pounds of wire usually), not only are they less expensive per pound and don't have to be replaced as quickly (because they have LOTS more wire than the little spools), but they also seem to feed a bit more smoothly than the little 4 inch spools.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Oh, another thought.The 'little' wirefeed welders don't have a lot of voltage 'under the hood' so-to-speak.  Especially compared to most stick welders.Open-circuit-voltage on most 'little' wirefeed machines is about 33 volts or so.  OCV on stick welders (like the tombstone buzz-box in your sig) is around 80V or so (ignoring higher-end machines with OCV limiter).Why does that matter?  Because if your work-clamp (aka 'ground' clamp) is not attached nicely to some pretty clean shiny metal, the 'little' machine doesn't have enough voltage to 'punch' through much (if any) crud at that connection.  Grease, oil, paint, rust, mill-scale, etc all can and will interfere with the electrical connection of the work clamp to the workpiece.The higher voltage and overall higher power level of the stick machines can usually get through a bit of crud easier than the wirefeed machines.I'm not sure if an 'iffy' work clamp connection is more annoying than -forgetting- to attach the work clamp at all.      Forgetting the connection usually results in a "WTF?  How come I don't have any arc at all?" and then you slap your head.  And 'iffy' connection can drive you bonkers as you adjust voltage and WFS and whatnot as you try to get a decent bead to happen.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...