A little work on a water truck

admin

this is a water truck that i did for a customer over the weekend.i made a pintle hook on the back. i didn't get to many pictures of it because i was under a time limit to get it done! there are 15x15 triangle gussets that tie the center of the hitch to the frame but didnt get any pictures of those so please dont flame me for that!my neighbors have to love me! mocking the plate got to love the magdrill! life saver!i dont get to do alot of stick so this was fun! 22 lbs of 1/8 7018!SIN CITY METAL WORKSvisit my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/devvon
Reply:Are you insane:? you built a part for the back of a truck that might actually tow something, and on the road as well,  You will surely be jailed by the liability police here.  Brace yourself, you are in for a tremendous beating.   I think it looks good, and I'll bet it will hold up just fine, in that you will tear the truck frame off before it breaks.   Like that welding table to.  I see your ground lead at the base clamped on, what is the terminal and cable hanging from the center, is that part of the build for another accessory?Ground?Last edited by kolot; 09-18-2011 at 05:11 PM."Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:holy cold weldsMiller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:You have the PERFECT situation for a hitch that I described in an earlier thread:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=59508You could have made it properly, and had a nice, safe tow apron that would provide years of reliable safe service... But instead you built THAT.I'm not gonna flame you, but this is another example of a half-baked idea put into practice that might get someone killed.Later,Jason
Reply:Oh no you just killed a bus full of nuns!!!Looks good.  what would a water truck need a hitch for?
Reply:In order the better assess your water truck hitch, we'll have to see better pictures of the VW in the driveway!  "These instructions are at our present level ofknowledge. Legal requirements do not exist.Technical issues subject to change."_________________________________________Lincoln MIG PAK 180Lincoln AC-225
Reply:Could you better explain where the gussets are located. Maybe draw them into the pictures you have already posted.
Reply:Here drew this to showSIN CITY METAL WORKSvisit my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/devvon
Reply:Why didn't  you take the plate out to the edges of the frame rails? Hope the gusset is attached to something more solid than that cross member."Liberalism is a mental disorder" Dr. Savage
Reply:Originally Posted by h8to wrkLooks good.  what would a water truck need a hitch for?
Reply:Originally Posted by h8to wrkOh no you just killed a bus full of nuns!!!Looks good.  what would a water truck need a hitch for?
Reply:The welds look a bit porous and cold, did you clean the base metal? A bit of leverage on the design.  The people I work for make my grind out the spongy beads and redo. With 22lbs of 7018, maybe could hold though? I fabbed 2 pedestrian bridges a while back, put a sign on them saying 500 lbs max just to cover my a$$, even though they could of held 10,000 lbs. something to think about.
Reply:With gussets behind it should work.  Lo-Hi sometimes will give you a bit of porosity at start...(keep a tight arc at start)  Would have been nice to grind out those locations and fill but more than enough weld along the top.  The gussets will be taking most of the load.
Reply:no one will ever steal your welding table!!  sweet
Reply:Originally Posted by donnyno one will ever steal your welding table!!
Reply:you cant even watch the news, without seeing a run away trailor that kills people I have a friend that done his own welding on his pintle hitch for his dump truck and he pullsa John Deere 200 LC (48,000 lbs)  designs not much different from WD 40s. been pulling it for years. I also have not heard of anyone in Florida being killed because of a run away trailor i.e. Ed Mac. When that trailor hitch fails, scrap metal thieves will get it before the law gets there anyway, no evidence to be found.Last edited by g-man; 09-24-2011 at 07:55 AM.
Reply:it is more dangerous to post a picture of a pintle hitch install here than the QC at a atomic reactor. i know we all strive for safety and quality, but this guys hitch would hsve no problem pulling anything that truck is capable of. every single drop of spatter doesn't have to be analyzed. flame some piece of garbage that deserves it, but lets spare the drama and give credit where its due. good job as far as i can see. do you think the weakest point in this hitch is the hardware holding it on or the structure of the hitch casting/forging? lets lighten up a bit.
Reply:Eh, it'll hold Nice work buddy.[Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:Originally Posted by g-manyou cant even watch the news, without seeing a run away trailor that kills people I have a friend that done his own welding on his pintle hitch for his dump truck and he pullsa John Deere 200 LC (48,000 lbs)  designs not much different from WD 40s. been pulling it for years. I also have not heard of anyone in Florida being killed because of a run away trailor i.e. Ed Mac. When that trailor hitch fails, scrap metal thieves will get it before the law gets there anyway, no evidence to be found.
Reply:if the gussets are tied in good im thinking it will be plenty strong.
Reply:Originally Posted by dbl612it is more dangerous to post a picture of a pintle hitch install here than the QC at a atomic reactor. i know we all strive for safety and quality, but this guys hitch would hsve no problem pulling anything that truck is capable of. every single drop of spatter doesn't have to be analyzed. flame some piece of garbage that deserves it, but lets spare the drama and give credit where its due. good job as far as i can see. do you think the weakest point in this hitch is the hardware holding it on or the structure of the hitch casting/forging? lets lighten up a bit.
Reply:Originally Posted by welloyour joking right
Reply:am i missing something here? the original poster may not of put the prettyist of looking mounting plates on the frame rails, but it looks to me that he has welded the crossmember to framerail connection completely and has tied his hitch plate to the bottom of the framerails with some very large gussets which appear to extend to the bottom of the vertical plate. i am assuming he has welded all contact areas of the gussets between the hitch plate and the frame rails. the hitch is held on by four 3/4 inch flange style bolts (grade 8). please tell me where the weak point is with all this welding and reinforcement plates, the steel, the welds, or the fasteners? i learn new things every day, even after doing code work and custom lift fixture fabrication for the last forty years. thanks, tom
Reply:Originally Posted by dbl612am i missing something here? the original poster may not of put the prettiest of looking mounting plates on the frame rails, but it looks to me that he has welded the cross member to frame rail connection completely and has tied his hitch plate to the bottom of the frame rails with some very large gussets which appear to extend to the bottom of the vertical plate. i am assuming he has welded all contact areas of the gussets between the hitch plate and the frame rails. the hitch is held on by four 3/4 inch flange style bolts (grade 8). please tell me where the weak point is with all this welding and reinforcement plates, the steel, the welds, or the fasteners? i learn new things every day, even after doing code work and custom lift fixture fabrication for the last forty years. thanks, tom
Reply:heres a few pics of another way to do it as much the same as Jason's Creative metal Creative metal Facebookfirst class job, excellant looking welds, bolts in compression, obviously fabricated in a professional shop, for a commmercial user. no flames possible here unless there will be elaborate comments about paint procedures! LOL! HAVE A GREAT DAY MEMBERS.
Reply:Originally Posted by dbl612first class job, excellant looking welds, bolts in compression, obviously fabricated in a professional shop, for a commmercial user. no flames possible here unless there will be elaborate comments about paint procedures! LOL! HAVE A GREAT DAY MEMBERS.
Reply:Originally Posted by dbl612am i missing something here?
Reply:To finish off the thought above, here are a couple photos to show a better way to fab up the tow apron.  I would not recommend anything vertical below the rails as that just gives the plate leverage as it works.  Instead, I begin to taper the apron from the bottom flange of the rail to the hitch attachment point.  When I box the apron in using the flat bar (or plate) I go from frame rail web to frame rail web.In the pics below, the red channel is the existing bus frame and the bright green in the overlap of the flat bar (or plate) past the tow apron to have room for  fillet welds.  No, the frame rails do not have to extend through the tow apron, I just showed them on this side for reference.Normally, I do not weld tow apron to the frame as a lot of our local industry requires trucks to be switched from gravel trucks to 5-axle log trucks and back and forth, so there is a lot of swapping of tow aprons and frame extensions.You will have to check with your local regulations, but up here welding on the frame rails is allowed as long as you are in front of the front suspension, or behind the rear suspension.  If you are anywhere between the front or rear suspension pickup points, then special considerations apply. Attached ImagesLast edited by Black Wolf; 09-29-2011 at 12:36 PM.Later,Jason
Reply:The pictures I have posted show the tow apron extending vertically the full height of the frame rails but I have built several that have the tow apron beginning below that frame rails that work the same as the one that Neil posted.  Neil uses a heavy formed channel and a stout re-pad to tie between his vertical frame plates and I use a tapered flat plate and box the outside perimeter to give it strength.  The outside perimeter is formed out of one piece with a press whenever possible - It just speeds things up.  Weld in the tow apron, position on the truck frame and use a mag drill for mounting bolts.  They are fairly common on body job gravel trucks where we have to notch the top of the frame rails to install the hinge components for the dump box.  On lighter duty applications, I have removed material from the side plates below the frame rails, and along the bottom of the apron. Caution must be taken not to be too drastic with the removal as this increases the lines of stress in the side plates.  Use reasonable material reduction and smooth transitions.My diagrams are for illustration purposes only.  I am posting them to explain the concept since I don't have any pictures on hand like Neil.  I am not telling anyone to "Only use 6 bolts" for example - I am not the best on Google SketchUp so I only showed the 6 holes.  Longer plates = more holes.Anyway, I hope I have explained adequately.  It is not my intention to flame the OP or his work, but that is NOT the correct way to install components that will be towing weight along a public roadway.Have a Good Day. Attached ImagesLast edited by Black Wolf; 09-29-2011 at 01:15 PM.Reason: Further explanationLater,Jason
Reply:I'll go along with all the other nay-sayers. I am not qualified to speak to the welds, but I am qualified to speak to the design.it should definitely be bolted to the web. there are warning on ever new truck I have seen to not drill the flange or weld anywhere. look at how the trucks are made at the factory. It all bolted or riveted to the web. The frame rails are high strength steel. they are not ment to be weldedI also have to question the use of diamond or tread plate. I know its what you had, but it is weaker than the equivalent smooth sheet. Those bumps will just act as stress risers and be a place for cracks to start propagating from. Probably not that big a thing, but it is something.These other designs posted up are much better, but If I were to do it, I'd 1-up them by having material up against the flange. Maybe gusseted tabs. Maybe build it around some big pieces of angle iron that sit under and around the frame or better yet a properly sized channel to fit tightly around the frame, then slide it on and bolt it in place.Now that the damage has been done, I don't know if cutting it off would be the best bet, or would you be better off just reinforcing what is already there.at least weakening the frame were you did doesn't look like it would be too disastrous to the integrity of the truck, but I'd expect cracks to start up were you welded the hitch to the frame rails
Reply:Wouldn’t a rivet be the best bet for a  fastener? I ask this because I was always told the rivet is better due to the fact that in completely engages the entire hole on both objects being fastened and there is void(or possibility of void) around the fastener.
Reply:Originally Posted by Letzgoracin301Wouldn’t a rivet be the best bet for a  fastener? I ask this because I was always told the rivet is better due to the fact that in completely engages the entire hole on both objects being fastened and there is void(or possibility of void) around the fastener.
Reply:Originally Posted by GrooThese other designs posted up are much better, but If I were to do it, I'd 1-up them by having material up against the flange. Maybe gusseted tabs. Maybe build it around some big pieces of angle iron that sit under and around the frame or better yet a properly sized channel to fit tightly around the frame, then slide it on and bolt it in place.Now that the damage has been done, I don't know if cutting it off would be the best bet, or would you be better off just reinforcing what is already there.at least weakening the frame were you did doesn't look like it would be too disastrous to the integrity of the truck, but I'd expect cracks to start up were you welded the hitch to the frame rails
Reply:I argue with people all the time about the instalation of washers.  Ive always thought the flat side should go to the job, tappered side to the nut/bolt head, as Black Wolf mentions.First time ive seen anyone mention this before.  Im now glad im not alone.Must be working with idiots.