I'm starting a fab shop is there any suggestions for what I will need?

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Ok so I came up with a great idea and decided I'd go off on my own. I've been welding for 2 years and have been working in a custom fab shop for the last couple months. Here's what I have.Miller dynasty 200 tigThermal arc 130 tig Lincoln 255 migMillermatic 130HT 30 plasma cutterHorizontal band saw Drill pressAs well as assorted grinding buffing and polishing tools.Besides a milling machine which I don't know how to use well. What are some good tools I should look into getting?Any help would be much appreciated Cheers
Reply:Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Most important tool for starting your own business: a friend who is a CPA. Good ones are like gold. Taxes and paperwork sucks. You can probably handle the technical side, but can you handle the business side?The soldering toys pay for the welding toys.Hakko 928 dual iron, 4xHakko 936Madell 850D Hot Air SMT ReworkMiller 252, HTP Invertig 201 AC/DC, and a Hypertherm 45.
Reply:Ok thanks for the pic  ill rephrase. I getting to the end of my start up budget for equipment what could I get for under $2000 that will help me be more efficient. I am working by myself so obviously I will be out sourcing quite a bit until I can afford the niceties of a bigger shop.
Reply:Lathe, iron worker, shear, slip roll, various tube bending equipment, large shop press, brake, CNC plasma table... I can go on and on. All depends just what you will be doing. I'd save your money and invest as needed based on the jobs you take in, Balance whether it's worth it to buy the equipment and do the work yourself, or sub those parts out if you don't need to do those operations often, or if the quantity doesn't justify the expense.The really big thing you need to know is how to run your business. I wonder from the vague question asked, if you are really ready for this. I've seen tons of guys that can do the work, but their business fails because they can't run the business end. This means having a good grasp of where your business is coming from, and what you need among other things. I see lots of guys rush out and buy all sorts of "fancy" gadgets, that they either never use, or that cost way more than they get in return. I can see lots of jobs the above items could be used for and make money, but if that's not the type of work you are getting in, then that's simply money wasted.Too many guys think it's easy to just pick up some business and go out on their own. Have you looked into what the following will cost you?Insurance:Auto... Most personal policies won't cover you in an accident if you are using it for work. Get hit and have your welder or material come off and do damage, and there's a good chance you'll get left out in the cold if your policy isn't either a commercial policy or has a special note that it's for business use.General liability... Fab something and some one gets hurt, weld fails etc, and you had better have insurance to cover it. Also usually will cover slip and falls at your shop and so on.Inland marine coverage / fire/ theft etc... Do you have coverage to cover your tools/ materials in the event of loss? Most general policies won't cover contents. Get ripped off when the customer has already paid you for materials, and now you don't have the materials or equipment to do the job, and chances are high your new business will fold up right there...Workman's comp... Most places today require that you show proof that you have workman's comp to cover injuries if you do any on site work.Don't forget medical insurance... under the new health care plan, as the boss and worker you have to pay both ways.Licenses, permits, tax id...Social security,  vehicle costs ( fuel, maintenance, tolls, registration, inspections etc), general overhead ( shop rental, electric, water, phone...), taxes, misc expenses ( small tooling, nuts/bolts, and a 1001 other small items that always seem to get left off the big list of materials), accountants fees, legal fees, work clothing, safety gear, .. the list goes on and on... Remember most of these expenses keep coming in every month whether you are getting in work or not, and have to be paid.Most guys who own their own business usually end up working 7 days a week, often more than 10-14 hrs a day to do all the jobs it takes to make a business successful. Billing, drumming up new work, estimates, checking material pricing, locating specialized parts. materials or equipment, basic accounting, and so on..  oh and then there's the actual work that pays that still needs to be done at some point. All of this and you frequently will find you don't get to take home a check, because your money is all tied up in business related costs, materials, or out on the street waiting to be collected...I'd make darn sure you have this all though out before you go running out to buy new toys for the business....Last edited by DSW; 09-23-2012 at 07:44 PM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:The business side is pretty good I am kind of piggy backing off another well established business. They do custom carpentry so ill also have access to their clients to help with starting up.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joshua905Ok thanks for the pic  ill rephrase. I getting to the end of my start up budget for equipment what could I get for under $2000 that will help me be more efficient. I am working by myself so obviously I will be out sourcing quite a bit until I can afford the niceties of a bigger shop.
Reply:Ok sorry ill give more info. I was just looking for something small that can help in the long run saving time. My insurance is good to go. My tickets are up to date my business licences is in my office. I don't have a tax number yet because I don't need it until I start making over 30,000 per year. Fuel costs and other expenses have been calculated and I need to make $750 per week to break even. I have 8 jobs lined up that should take me through next month. In just wondering if any body knows any smaller equipment that I can buy to save me time and money  cheers thanks for all the replies.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joshua905The business side is pretty good I am kind of piggy backing off another well established business. They do custom carpentry so ill also have access to their clients to help with starting up.
Reply:Someone who had many years experience with bidding on steel fabrication pointed out to me that 75 % of any job involves handling.  If you target efficiencies in that area you will be rewarded.  Too many peiople worry about how many inches per minute they can do rather than the hour lost unloading or possibly the hours lost cleaning in preparation for paint.  Floor layout and handling equipment is most important.
Reply:Originally Posted by lotechmanSomeone who had many years experience with bidding on steel fabrication pointed out to me that 75 % of any job involves handling.  If you target efficiencies in that area you will be rewarded.  Too many peiople worry about how many inches per minute they can do rather than the hour lost unloading or possibly the hours lost cleaning in preparation for paint.  Floor layout and handling equipment is most important.
Reply:Originally Posted by Joshua905Ok sorry ill give more info. I was just looking for something small that can help in the long run saving time. My insurance is good to go. My tickets are up to date my business licences is in my office. I don't have a tax number yet because I don't need it until I start making over 30,000 per year. Fuel costs and other expenses have been calculated and I need to make $750 per week to break even. I have 8 jobs lined up that should take me through next month. In just wondering if any body knows any smaller equipment that I can buy to save me time and money  cheers thanks for all the replies.
Reply:Very well said DSW..I agree 100% and what alot of the others have said as well.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonSo where are you located, and what skills do you have? What materials are you working with?If you are going to buy materials, you need a resale certificate from your state office. You need to file for a fictitious name certificate if you are not going to use your own name. How old are you?
Reply:Originally Posted by Joshua905I'm in Ontario Canada ....
Reply:Ok but honestly Thanks for all the business advise. It does help and I will take it all into consideration but I'd just like to know if anybody knows any small tools that would help me out with a small shop. Ie. ideas for moving stuff around, types of drill bits that won't snap an last awhile. Things that I may not have thought of due to the fact that I haven't been welding for 30 years in a fab shop.
Reply:Sounds like you will be working out of a truck. When I go out I carry a couple of milk crates full of tools. I have 2 DeWalt 4.5" grinders with a hard disc, cutoff disk, blending disc, and sanding flapwheel disc, all mounted on 5/8-11 hubs so I can swap them without tools.I also have a couple of Leatherman tools, a hammer/multitool sniper tool, visegrip pliers, visegrip clamps, and dremel kit. The rest I bring from my shop as required, as I view the work site before hand. I would not burn up your cash too soon. Some tools you may never use, and most are available at the hardware store. My favorite supplier is McMasterCarr.com. They have everything and can have it to me the same day if I call in the morning.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Congratulations, and good luck. I went out on my own at the begining of the year and am doing fairly well for the moment. Just my two cents but any extra dough you got, if it were me i would spend on backup supplies or fold it over and save for the unexpected. No matter how prepaired you think you are, somebody will bring you something that you aren't able to deal with, and you as a business owner you will need to know your limitations or be able to tell your potential customer I can't weld that/or repair that. Respectivley the later would be the worst if you aren't equipped or can't become equiped to handle the job as a fab shop.Shake and Bake
Reply:Originally Posted by Joshua905 Ie. ideas for moving stuff around, types of drill bits that won't snap an last awhile. Things that I may not have thought of due to the fact that I haven't been welding for 30 years in a fab shop.
Reply:Cash is King.  Hold on to it and be a miser with it.  The work that comes in the door will dictate what you need faster than you can imagine.The main thing you need to get started is lots of work and the ability to price it right.
Reply:Keep it small, take it allIf the conversation isn’t money, then I’ll see you later.
Reply:As a suggestion- look into the smartphone credit card readers. The company gets a cut of about 3% off the top, but if it makes it easier for your customers to pay, then may be worth it.
Reply:A welding table, the bigger, the better. Cash on hand, the bigger, the better. Resist buying anything ahead of time that can be purchased on short notice. What you need will constantly change.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:Marketing to get jobs in the door. Network with other small business owners - word of mouth is the best advertising. Figure out your niche- who is in that space, and network with them.Do right by those you do jobs with and they will tell others.Put up a small, easy to find informational website so people can find you easy and get your contact info, example "Smithfab.com".  NelsonHobby-Machinist.com - The Friendly Machinist Forum®My toys: South Bend Heavy 10L Lathe (1973)Burke #4 Milling Machine (1946)Van Norman #12 Milling Machine (1942)South Bend 14" Drill Press
Reply:forklifts are handy as hell, overhead crane also. go to ritchie bros auctions rbauction.com they have lots of stuff ie, welders,forklifts,cranes miccelaneus shop stuff like storage and tables.!! Be careful here - most new business fail because they don't have a solid business plan/strategy, networks and cash role. I don't know what your previous experience is, but 2 years in a fabricating enviro is nothing unless you already have a similar trade (millwrighting, machining) to lend experience to....or a lifelong hobby even. Aside from your limited funds, do you have a shop and a decent truck already? What kind of fabricating are you thinking of? General welding, industrial service, ornamental iron, manufacturing? First thoughts on BASIC equip since you have the welding covered for general shop purposes;- **High speed cold saw** (Dewalt multi cutter or equiv) - No shop should be without one for quick cuts on run of the mill stock (much faster than your Horiz. saw unless you bundle cut) - Forklift, crane or means of hoisting- Shear - Low on cash? start with a Beverly Throatless hand shear- Handbrake, box and pan, 12ga capacity - upgrade as you grow- Ironworker or punchpress - nice, but not needed if you already have a good saw and drill press- Trailer or decent truck with full rack on itSome equipment isn't worth owning right off the hop. Sub out rolling, specialty forming, machining and CNC cutting until you are doing it with enough frequency for ownership to make more sense. This also frees you up for other billable work where the cash goes into your pocket as opposed to paying to buy & maintain seldom used equip.Thermal Arc Fabricator 2101970 Lincoln RedfaceMiller 150 STLStill need a Syncrowave and a plasma and a milling machine and a lathe and a bigger shop and a....
Reply:Originally Posted by Joshua905Ok sorry ill give more info. I was just looking for something small that can help in the long run saving time. My insurance is good to go. My tickets are up to date my business licences is in my office. I don't have a tax number yet because I don't need it until I start making over 30,000 per year. Fuel costs and other expenses have been calculated and I need to make $750 per week to break even. I have 8 jobs lined up that should take me through next month. In just wondering if any body knows any smaller equipment that I can buy to save me time and money  cheers thanks for all the replies.
Reply:Originally Posted by asdfAs a suggestion- look into the smartphone credit card readers. The company gets a cut of about 3% off the top, but if it makes it easier for your customers to pay, then may be worth it.
Reply:a startup business's biggest downfall and what takes out the majority of small startups is running out of operating capitol... 2k is nothing, a drop in the bucket, especially with a new business...to me the first thing you need to do is start making money and then still live like your broke, for a good long while... accumulating a nice back up cushion of cash that you really don't even know that you even need yet... the difference between a business closing it's doors or surviving another month or two to try and "catch up" or to finally "make it" can be the difference several thousands of dollars in reserve can make... until you're in business for 3 years or more you should always be as cash fat as you possibly can.... avoid loans, avoid financing and avoid running dry on money, especially without a rock solid professional business plan and even with that it's a gamble really...again, the truth is that MOST NEW STARTUP BUSINESSES WILL FAIL WITHIN THE FIRST 3 YEARS... this is just a fact... note it doesn't say the first 6 months or the first 1.5 years... because once the business really starts to roll is when working capitol will literally choke the life out of your business unless you have enough reserves to survive the intial growth into what we could then call an established business... if a business can make it past that 3 year mark it then has a good chance of becoming an established business with longevity... the biggest mistake most new business owners make is after 6-8 months everything looks rosy and bright so they let ther guard down and start spending like they've already ."made it"... then they choke at the first big dry spell or a few big unexpected expenses or liabilities pop up...miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:Originally Posted by cabletechMost important tool for starting your own business: a friend who is a CPA. Good ones are like gold. Taxes and paperwork sucks. You can probably handle the technical side, but can you handle the business side?
Reply:Find a good supplier, personally visit future customers and rent everything you can.
Reply:I'd buy them as needed since you're talking about bits and the little things eveyone forgets until they need it. I'd keep the cash set aside for all the little things that pop up.Cleveland Twist is a popular brand of bits, other than that I have no recommendations. Buy extras of your most common sizes. Moving materials indoors on a budget... A heavy duty flat cart with a removable handle worked fine for me. We had a tow motor and a cherry picker, but the cart was just faster/easier to grab.air tool oil--if you use air toolscutting fluidacetoneabrasives, lots of themcleaner/degreaser and box of ragsscribea couple of 12' tapes--I break a lot of tapessharpiescombination squaredeburring toolorbital sanderhand held belt grinder (forget the name of them)oil drybroom, dust pan and garbage cannote pads, pencils and pensextra gloves, glasses, ear plugs, face sheildcenter punch and other punchesrubber mats to stand onledger and something to keep documents and receipts in.exnsion cordsbrass hammerPeening hammermore clampsstrapstin snips (for cutting metal bands)bucketfire retardant blankettarp and bungiesfire extinguisherpry barsfilesThat's all that jumps to my mind. Sorry, I was trying to think of the simple/dumb things that can go overlooked.Good luck.
Reply:Just a quick question. Since you will be a general fab/repair shop. What about safety equipment? Where I work, we cant go over 6 feet with out a harness on. Every place I have worked at has been like that. Hard hats etc....
Reply:A lot of folks (including myself) talk about book keeping.  Not just for federal, but for state.  Business licenses, etc.  Want a nice program to handle all of this stuff?  Want to know where you stand financially with a few clicks of the mouse?  I highly suggest Intuit products, especially Quickbooks.  Have been using it since I started my business ten years ago.  Invaluable.  E-mail purchase orders, invoices, estimates, credit memos, customize various forms, reports, etc.  It is great!  With it, you can also run peep's credit cards, and ship with UPS.  Saves the time of going into another program, entering address data, etc.  Do it!-Aaronedit- Another thing you should seriously consider is taxing some tax classes put on by your local department of rapenue...er..revenue.  Most don't like paying the taxes, but you'll want to make sure you're paying the correct taxes, not overpaying, etc.  You'll also want to be properly classified under your state's tax / business structure.  Who knows, maybe you'll get audited one day, only to find you should have been paying taxes on manufactured goods this whole time.  That can add up to a big chunk of change.  Keeping the gov happy is probably akin to keeping your wife happy.  Sometimes, you  might want to do it, but most times, its best that way.Last edited by rabidchimp; 09-27-2012 at 10:39 AM.Reason: Added infoJet 17.5" Drill Press1942 South Bend 16x84 Lathe1980s Miller 320A / BP --- 2013 Power Mig 2562012 Jet 7x12 Horizontal BandsawVictor O/A Setup
Reply:Cheers thanks a lot. This helped a ton. I'll let you know how it goes in a couple of months.
Reply:just wondering how things are going? I have a bit of advice to add as well... The tools will be purchased as you need them, trust me. Quality and timeliness are of short order in thisbusiness no matter where you are. As for legal  advice ask locally because most laws are slightly different from area to area. The best advice I can give to drive sales is three things 1) product and service differentiation... If you have the same product and service as everyone else you are likely placing your business in what an economist would call a perfectlycompetitive market. This means that your sales are based strictly on price and price alone. However, if you can differentiate you then place yourselfin a monopolistic competition market and helps increase margins, sales, and total revenue. The best customers are the  ones worried about quality and not price.2) Network, network, network this means talk to everyone about your business,this does 2 things.. it gets your name out there and it helps them network as well. Networking is basically and external team foundation that should benefit everyone involved. Ethical business isgood business.Group advertising and special rates can sure help andadvertising budget. Take advice and lend an ear, you can learn a lot more from listening than you canfrom talking.3) Third and probably most important is employees. You may not have employees for a year or two but dont be affraid to bring in help. A business cannot grow in sales without growing where necessary elsewhere. I know it can be difficult to relinquish control, but mistakes are how we all learn, and if an employee makes a mistake do not scold themfor the mistake, commend them for their efforts and show them how you like it to be done. Also if employees have ideas on  anything atleast hear themout and try to actuall implement their ideas fromtime to time. An employee will receive more satisfaction from seeing their idea come to light than receiving a paycheck. Now this doesntmeandont pay them, it just means serve them the gratitude andlet them help you build a successful team. As your team growsstrongerso does your business.Business is like a jigsaw puzzle that is only complete when all the pieces are put together. Remember that puzzles take time to build and so does a business.There will be ups and downs but ifyoukeep yourhead up and thegrinder on the metal you will make it to the  promise land. For some excellent business strategy theories look up "red ocean vs blue ocean" strategies. For management theories that are sure to help you build a strong team look up "theory x and theory y management theory" also look up  "mazlows hierarchy of needs" these are some of the stronger theories that can help anyone grasp theconcept of team building leadership and management. this ismyBachelors ofbusinessandmyMasters of Business Admin all wrapped up in a very small nutshell. There is much more to it but this should give you a good starting point.
Reply:A marketing plan?Hey~!! It's a hobby. It's not supposed to make sense~!!
Reply:Magnetic drill and annular cutters should be on that short list. Ironworkers can save a lot of time on making mounting plates and a lot of other things around the shop. An ironworker can punch 30 holes in the time it takes to drill one, so lots of time saved. Same thing with shearing to length solid and plate stock, yes they are big and expensive but save hours of time on repetitive tasks.
Reply:Its funny, people asked for what kind of job you'll be making in your your shop, then you clearly answer some "railings and assorted other jobs" and no one noticed all the great tool that you have listed which you already own, you don't need anything else for now exept maybe a basic O/A torch if you don't have one now.Seriously if i only had your honrizontal bandsaw and only 1 welding machine i could already start to making all sort of stairs and railings for my local city, don't think tobig yet.You can do A LOT of job done now with what you have, if you need bend plate or rolled tubes or sheared plates you'll save big money if you pay some company that only does that kind of job, some big fab company don't even have a shear or a brake.Calculator > Bevel Square
Reply:If you were telling me that your 1st client is a big contractor in CanadaAnd the job that you bid was a big institutional building with a lot of stairs, some big architectural sheet metal panels, some stainless railings and you have tje whole thing, the structure and the architectural pieces, i would say, DUDEEEE GO FOR ALL THOSE BIG TOOLS. If its not the case, buy your O/A torch and start.Calculator > Bevel Square
Reply:a couple more years of experience..tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWWorkman's comp... Most places today require that you show proof that you have workman's comp to cover injuries if you do any on site work.
Reply:Subbed