Trailer tongue replacement.

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First off, I have NEVER been near this trailer with anything other than a camera!That said, it belongs to a friend of my friend. He does concrete work and uses this trailer for, well, anything! He called me up asking if I can put a new tongue on his trailer. I told him I would look at it. Now I know I can do the job, and I would make it alot heavier duty than it is. And the actual frame of the trailer is not rusted out or anything. At first glance it looked very strong. I WILL be looking at it closely. I just wanted to show people here what happens when you grossly overload a trailer! Look at the negative camber on that axle. And that worries me. Not that I will be blamed. But it really pisses me off that this guy is proud to have hauled "10k lbs., and checked it on a scale"! (I find that hard to believe, but then I consider the source!) To me that is moronic. And he has every intention of getting it fixed, either by me or another shop, and he will most definately overload it again. Opinions?"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Sticky, as your partner in crime, I would suggest you be too busy to fix it.  We're going to Ghana anyway - you won't have time to be working on that.
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-man But it really pisses me off that this guy is proud to have hauled "10k lbs., and checked it on a scale"! (I find that hard to believe, but then I consider the source!) To me that is moronic.
Reply:Stay away....far away, anything happens it's your nu*s in a wringer. Not only that, how much is your reputation worth, it takes a lifetime to get one, a minute to lose it...Mike
Reply:Give him an outrageously high quote to rebuild it to be a 10k trailer...frame, neck, axles, tires and wheels, plus the added breaks and electrical.
Reply:Originally Posted by GrooGive him an outrageously high quote to rebuild it to be a 10k trailer...frame, neck, axles, tires and wheels, plus the added breaks and electrical.
Reply:personally i think he is a bull**** artist trying to make you think he's a big strapper and  boost his own ego telling you he loaded it to 10k unless he loaded on the scale and never moved it. did he show you the certified scale tag? no doubt he lost it. first little bump would have blown the tires,snapped springs, laid the frame on the ground or at the very least did far more damage to that light tongue than what we are seeing. from what i see the fool had to much tongue weight and like DSW said parked on a slope and jack rolled sideways to the right and twisted the left frame rail it's attached to but not the right side. maybe even rolled off a block and compounded the stress. like the others have said tell him to go find somebody else to pay his lawsuit.Last edited by jbmprods; 10-21-2011 at 10:46 AM.225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:Yep I agree with others, that is just straight up overloaded trailer abuse and you don't want any part of it...     He needs to buy the right tool for the job and stop putting other people at risk...Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:Originally Posted by tbone550Sticky, as your partner in crime, I would suggest you be too busy to fix it.  We're going to Ghana anyway - you won't have time to be working on that.
Reply:Originally Posted by tbone550Sticky, as your partner in crime, I would suggest you be too busy to fix it.  We're going to Ghana anyway - you won't have time to be working on that.
Reply:I've got to agree with Groo and speedfreak. Don't touch it unless you're turning it into the trailer he should be using, not just turning it back into something that will be abused.Remember, if you've got pockets, the lawyers are going to come after you aswell.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:by the way Sticky i have a bone to pick with you and Tbone....literally lol. i reread that discussion we were having the other night about you 2 and DSW going on the safari and i  was laughing so hard i had to cough. well to say some guys have all the luck has never applied to me. when i coughed i felt a pop in my left side that bent me over so hard and fast i darn near ate the monitor. to make a long painful story short 8 hrs later i had my niece take me to the ER room at the hospital. well the bone i have to pick with you is the rib bone that i broke. with all the abuse my body takes who would guess something so dumb would happen. under the circumstances can we hold off on your shopping spree in my shop lesson ya wanta bring Mr TB and DSW with ya to help you load up. oh and can ya bill me for the $5 for gas cuz i gota put it towards the ER visit. good thing is i'm buzzin pretty good on the drugs for the pain.225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt.  I try to tell people on this forum to quit fooling around and act right, and do they listen?    Stick-man, do you listen?????    No.Well, here is a good example of what happens.  Mr. JBM was minding his own business, not contributing at all to the stupidity on that thread until Sticky came along and twisted his arm.  Next thing you know, the poor man is in the emergency room. I think it's time you all grow up and act like me.
Reply:Sorry about your rib bone jbmprod; yikes, this site can be right dangerous!Most I ever managed reading a post was to spray coffee on my monitor.Your story... Too Funny! Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VSorry about your rib bone jbmprod; yikes, this site can be right dangerous!Most I ever managed reading a post was to spray coffee on my monitor.Your story... Too Funny!
Reply:Originally Posted by jbmprods to make a long painful story short 8 hrs later i had my niece take me to the er room at the hospital. Well the bone i have to pick with you is the rib bone that i broke..
Reply:I would simply tell him that I would not do it period, not for any price that thing is surely a DEATH trap just waiting to happen.wboldenMiller Shopmaster 300Miller Syncrowave 250Miller Thunderbole 250/150 AC-DCMiller Weldpack 140 w/autosetMiller S-22 WirefeederLincoln 255 xt Mig welderLincoln 216 Mig welderVictor,Smith and Harris OA7X 12 JET BANDSAW
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWQuote:Originally Posted by jbmprods  to make a long painful story short 8 hrs later i had my niece take me to the er room at the hospital. Well the bone i have to pick with you is the rib bone that i broke.. Quote:Originally Posted by thorshammer  pics or it didn't happen. .....
Reply:Tbone, Dude, I can believe Mr. JBM, cause you really get me laughing. I still can't respond to your long post over in "Off Topic". I just can't think of anything good enough to compete!!! But when you refer to yourself as , I kinda think you should be thinking  or maybe even  cause you really make all of us here  to the point that we can't wait till you go to  even if you think you are just too . And now that JBM got hurt and is  and he even had to call his niece for , I think you should apoligize so he can  again!Alright, dump the OP because this got too out of hand. Mr. JBM, if you really cracked a rib because of us, I am sorry, but THAT is just too funny. I DO NOT mean to be rude, but what are the chances. And as long as you're ok now, it is too funny and we can laugh WITH you. Please don't be mad."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:ok guys if you really want to see pictures on here of something broken so bad that you want me to produce them of my lower anatomy.....lol...i guess  i could break out the camera and stand in front of the mirror and try to get the angle just right to make sure everything is in focus for a large clear unobstructed view so you curious ones can get a close up and personal look see to properly visualize, and psychologically evaluate my overwhelming discomfort and pain while you fellows with your wide array of knowledge and techniques discuss the said knowledge and techniques and try to impress the less experienced  newbies on here in the art of manipulating your rods, stingers, torches, and leads while making  sure everything is secured with proper hold downs to prevent twisting, warping, etc and any movement in general so with the proper tried, tested and proven use of standoffs, stick outs, heat distribution, tongue-stuns, grinding and drilling methods and which speeds and lubes to use to prevent loading and burning so as to protect your tools and prevent further damage from the heat effected zone..... to this all i am able to contribute because of the pain and suffering endured while writing this  is the knowledge that while you experts and beginners alike are anal-lizing  my situation is the fact that if something is broken and needs to be fixed properly and usually made better then before is trust in the folks that breath fire and smoke and physically assert themselves on a daily basis and gain less respect and financial stability over the so called self proclaimed experts that still practice the profession of healing, mending, fixing and preventing further complications. as a footnote it's kinda nice to kick back put my feet up (gently) and enjoy the drugs knowing that my employer (me) has a note from the "professional" giving me an unpaid week off. ok guys and gals i'm in your hands.....och....be gentle damnit. be quick now so you can get back to helping Tbone fix Sticky's tongue.225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:Let's get serious and back on topic here....Cut the top rail off(not needed because he has the plywood as sides).Cut the tongue off flush with the front of the trailer.Use some of the angle from the top rail to make a new tongue, butt welding the 2x2 angle to the 3" channel and call it good.With all the weight saved, there will be no need for a new jack.As for the axle, turn it over, gets more ride height and fixed the bad camberThats how we would do it in Texas.
Reply:Originally Posted by AMC724Let's get serious and back on topic here....Cut the top rail off(not needed because he has the plywood as sides).Cut the tongue off flush with the front of the trailer.Use some of the angle from the top rail to make a new tongue, butt welding the 2x2 angle to the 3" channel and call it good.With all the weight saved, there will be no need for a new jack.As for the axle, turn it over, gets more ride height and fixed the bad camberThats how we would do it in Texas.
Reply:I AM225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:In case of imminent capture by the enemy, destroy ordnance by all means available, including axes, explosives, firearms, fire, or any combination of the above.  That's right out of the technical manual. You could try a sticky bomb! City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverIn case of imminent capture by the enemy, destroy ordnance by all means available, including axes, explosives, firearms, fire, or any combination of the above.  That's right out of the technical manual. You could try a sticky bomb!Tell him it's time for a new trailer.  If I was to fix it, the repair bill would include new axle, maybe wheels and tires, springs, hangers, jack, material for tongue, labor, maybe new deck material, lights, wiring, and a thump with the dumb stick.  By the time to tack on an idiot tax the total would be pretty close to what a new trailer would cost.  I'd prolly try to steer him towards a used trailer about the same size, but with tandem axles.  I'm sure one could be found in the $500-$800 range in good shape with a bit of lookin.  I see them pop up on craigs list sometimes.My name's not Jim....
Reply:My Dad has a very similiar trailer made up here by SWS out of Westlock - The only difference being that Dad's trailer has a dump feature. In all seriousness, the trailer is more than repairable... It will probably require a new axle in addition to the new pieces for the hitch A-Frame as previously mentioned.Putting the appropriate jack back in the center of the A-Frame would be a good idea as well - Angle Iron is not designed for torsional loads so it is no wonder that if failed with that side mounted piece of crap.I agree that the trailer is being overloaded and abused, but that is beyond the welder's control.  The best that a welder can do is make proper and appropriate repairs to bring the piece of equipment back to OEM and make it safe for it's designed use.Repair the trailer to OEM and take his money.  You CAN'T Fix Stupid.Side NoteI am sure most on here know me to be Extremely Anal within the realm of Public Safety and I am not shy on sharing my thoughts to that effect, but this is not someone's cobbled up project that is poorly conceived - It is a readily available production trailer that has failed because of overloading and abuse.  The TRAILER is not at fault - The OWNER is.  If your decision to not repair the unit will only send the owner to secure the services of a much less capable, and shady individual who will make a poor repair, then in MY Opinion, your first obligation is to do the repairs yourself to bring it back to OEM. I would have no qualms repairing the trailer.  Beyond that, it will be a personal decision to confront the Owner, or contact the Authorities to report him and I cannot help you with that - It is between you and your conscience.Have a Good Day.Last edited by Black Wolf; 10-22-2011 at 11:41 AM.Later,Jason
Reply:if i'm not mistaken Black Wolf the US has quiet different definitions of liability than Canada. if Sticky welds up the trailer to original specs and this yahoo overloads it again and he will, Sticky most assuredly could/would be named in a legal or civil suit if injuries are involved or substantial property values. you are very correct in your sig statement with regards to free information sharing. the major problem being if it's free it isn't necessarily without cost.225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:I deleted my initial post because I couldn't find the correct wording that I thought would avoid confrontation.  I will try again.If I am to understand you correctly, there is a chain of liability that would make ANYONE who repairs this trailer liable for ANY future incurred damages?So why doesn't the owner of the trailer go back to the individual who installed the side-mounted swing away jack to repair the A-Frame?  It clearly is not the OEM part, and it clearly contributed to the failure of the driver side of the A-Frame.  Applying what you have said, the individual who installed the alternative jack should be held liable for the damages that incurred ie - The failure of the A-Frame.What I am having trouble wrapping my head around is how any welder could be held responsible for the end user loading 6,000 or 8,000 pounds (as an example) onto a trailer marketed and sold as a 2000 pound trailer.  Shouldn't there be some sort of operator negligence that applies in this case?If I were to weld appropriate replacement components onto this trailer, using a process that was equal to, or exceeding that of the manufacturer, my repairs should have at least the same results as OEM.  If I have a catastrophic failure, then clearly I had no business welding on the trailer in the first place, and I have opened myself up to Legal Action.Yes, arguements can be made for metal fatigue etc etc, but since few on this forum are educated to speak on that topic, I will speak on what I know, and I know that the A-Frame on that trailer CAN be replaced and the trailer CAN be put back into use.HOW the owner uses it, I cannot control.Last edited by Black Wolf; 10-22-2011 at 01:11 PM.Later,Jason
Reply:first the end of my reply was meant to be snotty but not towards you. towards the legal system of this fine lawyer infested country we/i live in. as for the maker or manufacturer being held accountable the best example i can site is the cigarette makers. need i say more. yes. nobody made me smoke i chose to be cool and got hooked. for how long has the system in this country been trying to make gun manufacturers liable for victims killed by one of the guns they produced. why do you think everything you see on tv is commercials that say "if you or a loved one has taken, been a victim, or etc contact our law firm". with deep pocket digging ambulance chasers being not born but produced everyday not only are the manufacturers being sought out to support them but also the little guy. guaranteed if you repair something and that something is involved in lawsuit you will come under scrutiny. you may not be found accountable if you pay the price to not be but your life will be hell till the bottom line is met. sure you can say but i have insurance for that. even that "BUT" brings no peace when you are involved in a suit until it is final. big question is when is it final? things are brought back to court regularly. now for Sticky to fix this mans trailer after he acquired the knowledge of the extent of abuse and with reasonable belief that this man will repeat the abuse, and if the damages above mentioned (earlier reply) occur, to what extent do you think the courts might find him at least partially liable?  i'm no lawyer but to this all i can say as a lifetime self employed businessman is i hope he has a good lawyer and a bank account to match. i ask is a few hundred bucks worth it. there has to be a lawyer with a welder that could step in here. sorry if i got wound up and bored you folks......jimP.S. this whole thread is public knowledge and that $%^$#@& lawyer would use it.225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:Awww Crap - You responded to my original post while I was Editing it.Sorry for any confusion to the members trying to follow the conversation - I was asking if the manufacturer was responsible for damages incurred by the end user and cited a couple of examples but I couldn't get the wording right.Jim - Thanks - I understand the point you were trying to make, and I appreciate the time you took to post your reply.  I have heard that the U.S. is rather Litigation Crazy but have no first hand knowledge of it.Have a Good Day.Last edited by Black Wolf; 10-22-2011 at 01:24 PM.Later,Jason
Reply:Originally Posted by Black WolfAwww Crap - You responded to my original post while I was Editing it.Sorry for any confusion to the members trying to follow the conversation - I was asking if the manufacturer was responsible for damages incurred by the end user and cited a couple of examples but I couldn't get the wording right.Jim - Thanks - I understand the point you were trying to make, and I appreciate the time you took to post your reply.  I have heard that the U.S. is rather Litigation Crazy but have no first hand knowledge of it.Have a Good Day.
Reply:lol you responded to mine while i was writing225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:stick man would get in trouble whe the trailer fails and the original manufacturer gets sued than their legal team will go looking for someone to blame andwhoever welded on that pos would be the guy. That being said I would probably fix it or maybe show the guy some heavier trailers that wouldn't cost alot more than the repair job.Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Even if cleared in court from the lawsuit, it would cost you legal consultation, time loss from paying work and some local people may take it the wrong way if you were named in newspaper stories ffrom the accident or court. The reputation may be the harsdest thing to fix.Millermatic 200Hobart Handler 120Victor O/A & Ramco BandsawLincoln 225 ACSnapOn AD HoodMiller XMT304/22AHypertherm Powermax 1650 G3Lincoln Idealarc DC600 w/Extreme 12 VSMiller Digital Elite "Joker"
Reply:we are getting at the heart of the problem with the US legal system.It doesn't matter if its his fault, he could very well get dragged in to the suite. the original builder will get named, but they have lawyers and it was "messed with afterward" so they are out. the owner is the real responsible party, but he doesn't have money, so he is out. Who is left to bear the brunt of the suite? maybe the odds of the suite happening are rare, but the costs would be great win or lose. That is the gamble you take.At the very least make him sign a paper that he will not load the trailer over X pounds and go over the thing with a fine toothed comb before releasing it.
Reply:Fix the tongue, weld on a plate that says max load #2000lbs. Something happens say "look at the plate, he over loaded it".