ESAB 280 vs Miller

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I was going to buy myself a nice little welder and wanted to get something that I would grow into moving up from a 180.  I'm torn on price point at this time between a ESAB 280 and a Miller 252.  The ESASB being a few hundred less.At this point, I think I am going to be limited to a 50A outlet that I ran. So does anyone have experience with the ESAB 280 ?  I was at the local welding place, and the ESAB was able to be dialed down to some really thin material as well as have no issues welding some thick stuff.  They only has a 212 there, and to me seemed the 212 did not do as well when I was welding it on thinner stuff (not sure if it was me or not, I could not dial it in, but on thicker stuff it was a breeze).Both the 252 and 280 from the data sheet call for more than my 50A inputSo the question I have is, if I do not run these 100% duty cycle at its max, can I run it on a 50Amp line until I run a bigger circuit ?Any experience on the 280 would be greatly appreciated.
Reply:Not sure what price you found on the Miller, but there are welding supply places that sell through Ebay that will deliver the Miller 252 for under $2200.  At your local LWS, 15% off list price should be easy to get, 25% off is more like what you see online.The Miller user manual is available on their web site, I suggest you download it.  There is link to look up manuals by serial number or by name.  There might be slight feature changes so ultimately serial number is important.  I know the 251 had charts down to 22gauge.  I assume the 252 is similar.  MIG welding stuff that thin is for the birds.  It can be done though... at least in theory.  Again check the manual.Keep in mind that in the US, most houses have about 240-250V actual input.  The MM252 lists something like 46Amps at rated output.The miller has two gauges, one for wire speed and one for voltage.  Voltage is adjustable in increments of .1 V.  For me, a relative amateur, the voltage and wirefeed displays are crucial.About the only real difference I can see is the Miller will take a push pull gun (if heavy aluminium welding is in your future)The Esab is a tapped unit.  Something like 21 different voltage settings.  Not a big deal, but definitely not in the same class.  You will be fine tuning with wire speed so it probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference in the end.Overall the Esab seems to have more power/duty cycle - call it a 300Amp machine.  If your are welding 1/2 plate, its definitely a consideration.  One thing, I don't see where Esab publishes under what condition they come up with the duty cycle numbers.  I suspect it similar to Miller, but I don't think anyone comes close to the details published by Miller.  Saying 300Amps at 40% duty cycle doesn't mean a whole lot.So features, a nod toward the Miller.  Power a nod toward Esab.  I'm not sure where you are located but around here ever welding supply place has parts for the Miller Mig gun (not true for Benard Q that the bigger Miller 350 has) so for me, another nod toward Miller.  Miller is assembled in USA.  Esab in England.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Originally Posted by padronanniversaryBoth the 252 and 280 from the data sheet call for more than my 50A input.
Reply:Curious, where do you get a true 50 amp circuit ?  Is that a derated 50 amp circuit for a welder ?  I recall the NEC allowing derating.  I thought 50 amp breaker, 6g wire.
Reply:I don't know about the esab 280, I have used and love the esab 250.  I have drooled over and would love to have an esab 275 and was a day short of ordering it when the bottom fell out in my world.  I am glad I waited.  I would still love to have a 275 it just isn't in the cards yet.I haven't read any report on the 280 so I can't speak concerning it.  As for the 252, you won't find a nice machine.  I have welded with the miller 185, 210, 250, 251, and 252.  I love them all.  I don't think you would dissapointed in them at all.I am interested in what the 280 is like.
Reply:Originally Posted by padronanniversaryCurious, where do you get a true 50 amp circuit ?  Is that a derated 50 amp circuit for a welder ?  I recall the NEC allowing derating.  I thought 50 amp breaker, 6g wire.
Reply:Oh man, decisions decisions.  I picked up 6/2 wire today to run my welder circuit and a 50 amp breaker.   I should have that done shortly.  Now its a matter of yellow or blue.  The ESAB 280 is $300 less at $1800 vs. about $2100 delivered to my door.  I'm torn which way to go still.  I hardly will ever use it at the higher ens of both machines, but when I do, I'll have it.The big plus seems to be the availability of the consumables.  I'm just not sure how long esab will be around compared to miller.  Yes, I have a local dealer for esab, but if I move I know I'll always have Miller LWS.  So what do you guys think ?  Does anyone ever use the variable inductance to slow things down ?
Reply:If it was a 250 or 275 I would say go with the the esab.  In this instance, not having any real review of the 280 i would most definately go with the miller.
Reply:My vote goes to the miller!Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:nevermindLast edited by Scott Young; 12-15-2010 at 06:15 PM.
Reply:oh boy, you guys are making me go blue. I figure I'll wait a few more weeks if I go blue to cover the costs, but man that yellow sure is buying their way into the market
Reply:I haven't seen the 280 yet but my 250 uses Tregaskiss-style guns so consumables are no problem.ESAB will be around for a long time in some form, but I'd go Miller. ESAB is killing off welder production in their Florence plant that made the 250 and similar, so the grand old Union Carbide//Linde/L-tec line of equipment is headed to extinction. ESAB still make excellent gas apparatus (Purox, Oxweld, etc) in the US. Keep jobs in the USA where possible, and where a company has mixed sources, buy gear that comes from the US. The job you save may be your own. FWIW, when I asked the welder repair techs at the outfit who handle our school systems (and have no dog in the fight since they do all brands), their UNANIMOUS favorite for service and repair work is Miller.
Reply:I just checked and they are still selling the esab 275.  I would go with that over any.
Reply:Originally Posted by Scott YoungI just checked and they are still selling the esab 275.  I would go with that over any.
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XWhere did you check? The Production line was shut down, the last time my friend was at the SC plant. The 260 was still being made at the time.I like the 275,(still a great welding unit) but the 260 is step above in the short-arc. The drive roll setup on the 280 looks to be a step backwards too. The 250 (275), and 260 have a long track record, something the Swedish 280 does not have. The Miller 252 never has been one of my favorite short-arc machines, although it's a solid machine.
Reply:If you can swing it, the Esab Multimaster 260 is the way to go. It is the best one Esab has put out, IMO. Its tons better than any of my Miller's are and were.QamuIs Heg qaq law' lorvIs yInqaq puS
Reply:Originally Posted by Brand XWhere did you check? The Production line was shut down, the last time my friend was at the SC plant. The 260 was still being made at the time.I like the 275,(still a great welding unit) but the 260 is step above in the short-arc. The drive roll setup on the 280 looks to be a step backwards too. The 250 (275), and 260 have a long track record, something the Swedish 280 does not have. The Miller 252 never has been one of my favorite short-arc machines, although it's a solid machine.
Reply:The drive rolls setup is just cheaper in the area of the outlet guide, and spool tension setup. Overall kind of cheesy. Having a Esab 250/ Esab 250 plus, and two 250 Mutimasters/ two 4-30 feeders, I know what ones are proven, and work. (other esab's too)There are a few 275 machines around, and I would jump at one,if I needed a proven mig machine. Upgraded 250,and has most of the good things of the 250 plus model.Here is a look at the drive setup. Looks like a non driven top roll. I do know the C-420 machine is a nice running machine. That's the 3 phase setup.  There is a chance that the 280 is a excellent machine in it's own right. 350 pounds, means it has some guts somewhere.http://www.esab.ca/literature/Arc%20...0301%20165.pdfLast edited by Brand X; 12-16-2010 at 11:45 PM.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:ive ran the miller and the migmaster 275 and the esab would be my choice every day i have the migmaster 250 but the 275 has the slope settings on the front u can switch between. it runs like a true esab or a smooth arc like the miler
Reply:Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLCive ran the miller and the migmaster 275 and the esab would be my choice every day i have the migmaster 250 but the 275 has the slope settings on the front u can switch between. it runs like a true esab or a smooth arc like the miler
Reply:so what does a true esab run like ?
Reply:Originally Posted by padronanniversaryso what does a true esab run like ?
Reply:Originally Posted by padronanniversaryso what does a true esab run like ?
Reply:Originally Posted by padronanniversaryso what does a true esab run like ?
Reply:I guess I am just trying to understand the arc quality as you put it compared to a miller 252.  I am about 99% sure now to pull the trigger on a esab 280, I'm hoping that will be the right choice.What spool gun would you recommend for this for light fab and light structural work (i.e. trailors, snow mobiles) for AL ?Lets just say, the arc is not the new wave electronic type..This Spool-gun is fine, and less then half the cost of the ST-23 model.http://www.bakersgas.com/ESA36779.htmlEsab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i
Reply:The advertised low end of 16V @ 40 amps for the Migmaster 280, has me suspecting it isn't going to be as good of a thin ga sheet metal (auto sheet metal) unit as my Migmaster 250. I haven't ran a 280; however,  I'm definitely not impressed with the wire drive on the unit. I wouldn't be suprised to discover that the unit has an occassional feeding issue with a 15ft gun. Or at least is a little finnicky to get tuned in so that it doesn't have feeding issues.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:if you ever want a spoolgun go with miller they make the bestand in the future i dont see all three us brands surviving(red blue and yellow) with all the china junk on the market
Reply:The CK version will do all he needs, and he won't have to mickey mouse a Miller gun to the Esab. Esab, Miller, Hobart. and Miller will be around for a long time, Not real sure about Thermal-arc in it's current form??Dan, is right on the low-end of the 280. Just might have to run a bit faster to control the burn though. If the other taps run out nice, (bead wetout) then the 280 with a 12 ft gun might be just fine. Still a step down from all the other USA Esab machines.By the way Dan, sold the 260 yesterday. Guy has only has only welded with the 250, but it was enough to get him out here. He was really impressed with the 260 running Forney .035 solid wire. ( I am too!)  Now I can buy a Lincoln LF-72 feeder for my Esab.Last edited by Brand X; 12-19-2010 at 10:17 AM.Esab/Lorch ET-220iEsab 160i caddyThermal LM-200 Lincoln feedersThermal Pee-Wee 85sThermal 60i- 3phase /RPC powered (Beast)Thermal Drag-gun 35CINE 1500 Klutch 140i