Weld new muffler to old pipes?

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I need to replace the muffler on my 2000 Ford Ranger and need to do it on a budget.  I've been reading and all the muffler manufacturers recommend that if the old muffler had been welded on you need to replace the pipes that connect to it (tail pipe and connector pipe).  Is this due to length issues?  IE - if you cut the stock pipe to weld in a new muffler, it will be too short.  Or is it that they are worried about rust or something?  The length isn't much of an issue because I will be moving my exhaust so it comes out in front of the rear tire instead of at the back of the truck anyway.So, can I use a new muffler on the old pipes and weld away or do I need new pipes?  The tailpipe is solid, only surface rust from the looks of it, lots of metal left and no holes.
Reply:Hmmm.. don't know where to start.1.  In order to have a solid weld, you MUST have totally clean, rust free metal. In your case, with a 2000 Model Year Ranger, your vehicle is 13 or 14 years old.  Plenty of time for rust to form on the inside as well as outside.  In order to weld this, you'd have to remove all rust from both inside as well as outside the tubes.  I'm pretty sure your exhaust is stainless steel, but with that much time and heat, there's sure to be rust.  2.   To make this right, you'd have to weld around the entire circumference of the tube.  I other words you have to get access to the top, bottom and sides of the tube.  No way is that possible with that installed in the vehicle.  You'd have to carefully cut the old, temporarily place the new, mark everything PERFECTLY for orientation, remove the ENTIRE exhaust system from the vehicle, place it on your work bench, remove all the rust (without affecting your alignment marking system) and reweld.  3.   It takes exceptional skill to weld up thin metal like that.  I've only been a hobby welder for a few years, no way could I do that successfully.  Take some time, search this site.. look for postings on guys doing exhaust and manifold work.  Take a glimpse at what is involved.  This isn't easy. 4.   As for the length stuff.. a lot of that is related to the loading of the exhaust system.  Its long and rather delicate, for a part that has a lot of relative movement.  The engineers spend a lot of time ensuring that the balance / mounting points are precisely placed to ensure long life (no weird torsional loads) and quiet NVH (noise, vibration and harshness) performance.  And yeah, occasionally they can't get it perfect so that add dampners in the system to keep things quiet.    (I worked for a US manufacturer as an engineer & program manager.  I did spend a few years working on catalytic converter systems as a PM)In the old days before cars had stainless exhaust systems, the average life of exhaust parts was only about four years before you had to do repairs. You don't know how lucky you are. Take your time to research and find the right connections to do a quality job that will last.  Good luck with it.zip.Last edited by zipzit; 05-30-2013 at 11:17 AM.
Reply:The pipe will be off the truck while working on it, I need to replace the gasket between the connector pipe and caty anyway as that leaks too so I will have the exhaust down.Would it be better to just clamp it then?  I've always thought that welding was better than clamping exhaust.As to welding thin metal, I've had success welding 1/16" steel to 1/8" with my little 50amp buzz box running 1/16" 7014 rod.  The exhaust piping when new is 16 gauge (0.0598") vs the 1/16" I had been welding on (0.625") so it's pretty similar, I think I could do it.
Reply:You didn't say why you have to replace the muffler.  I'm assuming its because the thing is rusted out from the inside? (hint, hint.. if so, the entire exhaust system will have rust inside)  Remember, water in vapor form is a byproduct of the gasoline combustion process.  Is the entire exhaust system from the catalytic converter back intact?  If so, I think you would have nothing to lose from attempting to weld up.  The clamp on system will totally work.  Welding is probably better, but clamp on systems will work.  Clamp on stuff can be done with exhaust in vehicle.  If you have exhaust system out of the vehicle, and still want to weld it up, you could place the whole thing on your workbench.  build wooden holding fixtures to support the thing solidly on top of your bench.  You will be using these fixtures to get the thing perfectly re-aligned after cutting off the old muffler.  Remember you have to look at both the length relationship and the angular orientation of the tubes involved.  The key is to exactly hit the exhaust  hanger points.  I'd sure practice my stick welding.. you are bound to burn thru in places. See if you can close up burn thru holes on similiar tubing. You are right in that this would be a good welding challenge.  If you were just focused on getting the vehicle back on the road, go with the clamps.  If you want to challenge yourself, do something really cool, become a hero to us hobbyists here on welding web (me included) go for it.  I'll cheer you on!Zip
Reply:Well I think I will try welding it in.  Now I just need to decide whether to buy new pipe or not.  I think I will.  The muffler is getting replaced because it rotted out, and you're probably right that the pipes though they look ok, are rusty enough to cause trouble.**edit**I might try welding to the old pipes first, then if it burns through buy the new pipes at that point.  Honestly the truck won't be any louder with no muffler than it is right now and it is our #2 vehicle and only gets driven a couple times a week, so if I have to leave it with no muffler for a bit it's not a big deal.
Reply:Yeah, focus on the part about PRACTICE before you actually weld on the pipe.It is always best to get some pieces of scrap material that duplicate (or as near as you can get) the actual welding project materials or specimens.That allows you to get a "real feel" for what you will encounter on the actual project itself.As was mentioned, the practice sessions will allow you to test and correct burn through ahead of time instead of ending up ruining the parts that go on the truck.Personally, if the new muffler pipe diameter is identical to the pipe diameter, I would buy a short adapter pipe (3' t0 6" long) that fits snugly over both pipe and shove that pipe over the existing pipe on truck, then shove the muffler into that pipe, with the center point of the larger pipe resting squarely at the butt of the OEM pipe and muffler inlet pipe.Then use U-clamps or stainless steel band clamps to secure and seal the pipes together.But if you are determined to make this a WELDING project, you might be better off to just buy an "adapter nipple" pipe that you can weld to the new muffeler, and the other end of the adapter slips OVER the OEM pipe, and attach that slip end with a clamp of your choosing.
Reply:I did this with my 02 Superduty. I posted it somewhere on here. I Tiged it as well. Zapster also did it to on his truck. The factory pipes are so much thicker wall then the replacements. I got my muffler at rockauto.T.J.www.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:0.023 wire is best to use and then it is not too bad. When I would start gettting burn through I would just do seris of spot welds around the pipe. I have not had either of two that I had done break. Just mark your alignment with a deep scratch using a screw driver or something.Use a twisted wire wheel on your grinder to clean upWeld it all up and installIf you mess it up just cut and clean and try it againmake sure to save your hangers as most aftermarkets dont have them
Reply:In response to the clamping question, I prefer flanged connections anywhere the exhaust needs to be broken.  That way, good welding can be done up on a bench and then when you're underneath the vehicle, you're just bolting things together instead of trying to get good welds in awkward positions with limited clearance.This is the cat-back on my 300ZX:The system goes like this:headers --> 3-bolt flanges --> cat pipes --> 2-bolt flanges --> cat-backSo the exhaust flow only sees two joints from the headers downstream.  Of course, this is going to vary from vehicle to vehicle and how torturous the exhaust path is.  Flanges aren't too expensive to buy if you need some:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wlk-31897/overview/
Reply:Originally Posted by dbotosIn response to the clamping question, I prefer flanged connections anywhere the exhaust needs to be broken.  That way, good welding can be done up on a bench and then when you're underneath the vehicle, you're just bolting things together instead of trying to get good welds in awkward positions with limited clearance.This is the cat-back on my 300ZX:The system goes like this:headers --> 3-bolt flanges --> cat pipes --> 2-bolt flanges --> cat-backSo the exhaust flow only sees two joints from the headers downstream.  Of course, this is going to vary from vehicle to vehicle and how torturous the exhaust path is.  Flanges aren't too expensive to buy if you need some:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wlk-31897/overview/
Reply:All of the muffler shops I hung around in in my youth would have welded it up with oxy-acetelyne, most of the shade tree mechanics used coat hannger wire for filler rod.I offer three choices: Good, Fast, & Cheap. You may pick two.Hobart AC/DC StikMate LXHarbor Freight AD HoodHarbor Freight Industrial Chop SawDeVilbis 20 Gallon, 5 HP Compressor
Reply:Originally Posted by nadogailAll of the muffler shops I hung around in in my youth would have welded it up with oxy-acetelyne, most of the shade tree mechanics used coat hannger wire for filler rod.
Reply:I say get it as clean as possible, including ridding of the rust as much as you can, and weld that sucker up! 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:Originally Posted by OscarI say get it as clean as possible, including ridding of the rust as much as you can, and weld that sucker up!
Reply:Originally Posted by nadogailAll of the muffler shops I hung around in in my youth would have welded it up with oxy-acetelyne, most of the shade tree mechanics used coat hannger wire for filler rod.
Reply:Originally Posted by joecool85I need to replace the muffler on my 2000 Ford Ranger and need to do it on a budget.  I've been reading and all the muffler manufacturers recommend that if the old muffler had been welded on you need to replace the pipes that connect to it (tail pipe and connector pipe).  Is this due to length issues?  IE - if you cut the stock pipe to weld in a new muffler, it will be too short.  Or is it that they are worried about rust or something?  The length isn't much of an issue because I will be moving my exhaust so it comes out in front of the rear tire instead of at the back of the truck anyway.So, can I use a new muffler on the old pipes and weld away or do I need new pipes?  The tailpipe is solid, only surface rust from the looks of it, lots of metal left and no holes.
Reply:If you have access to a TIG machine then it won't be a problem..Been there done that MANY times...Get the old pipe as clean as you can and have at it!...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I second all votes for welding it up. I'm in the middle of doing it on my frontier. Get it clean and watch the old rusty stuff for burn through. I focus the arc on the new pipe and the bring the puddle on to the old to prevent burn through. Tig makes it easy to control the heat input.
Reply:Here is a post showing what I did. As stated before if you can TIG it, do it.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...erduty+mufflerwww.tjsperformance.comDynasty 300 DXHTP 240HTP Microcut 380Hyperthem 85JD2 Hyd Bender and HF Hyd Ring Roller all in one =(Frankenbender)Bpt. Mill/DRO4' x 8' CNC Plasma TableInstagram: tjsperformanceYT: TJS Welding and Fabrication
Reply:No TIG available, just a 50amp fixed AC stick welder and my pack of 1/16 7014 rods.
Reply:I stick-welded some 22 ga (0.030") with 1/16" 7014 last summer:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=140541See post #11 in that thread.  The trick for thin stuff seemed to be to make a bunch of tacks.On the mower shed, I didn't really care if the bead protruded to the inside, but on your exhaust, you may want to keep your welds somewhere between vertical and overhead, that way any gravity sag won't protrude into the inside of the piping.
Reply:Just take en to a shop bro! Let them deal with the welds!
Reply:There is aways this option, just make sure you make the cut as close to the new muffler length.  You will need the same end to end dimensions as the one hanging there now.http://www.summitracing.com/search/d...section/clampsMagazines have issues, everything else has problems
Reply:The fine art of welding rust to air.....Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by joecool85No TIG available, just a 50amp fixed AC stick welder and my pack of 1/16 7014 rods.I replaced a section of destroyed exhaust pipe with a glasspack(on my jeep) and welded it up with a chicom flux core welder.Had basically two settings...maxxed out, and off.Its been a year and holding 100%.What's the worst that can happen? You get it to stick well enough to last a year or two, or, you burn through everything and have to take it to a shop.
Reply:I weld up exhaust every day.Get to solid pipe (pipe that doesn't disappear when you hit it with a hammer or wire brush it), wire brush it a bit to get the loose stuff off, and weld that shart up! Sometimes you have to slip on a pipe over the old pipe to make up the length but its no big deal.
Reply:Got it on no problem at all.  No issues with burn through, if anything I could have used more heat.  50 amps, 1/16 7014 rod.  It's quieter than the old rusted out muffler, but substantially louder than stock.  Not pretty welds, and no doubt they could be stronger, but they don't leak and the pipes aren't going anywhere any time soon.  The muffler is a Jones ATT12S-3 Turbo Tube muffler (not a glass pack).  I have just under $60 into it for the muffler, new tailpipe, exhaust gasket and spring/bolt kit all shipped to my door from SummitRacing.com, I'm pretty happy.Here is a video:  Attached ImagesLast edited by joecool85; 06-24-2013 at 12:43 PM.
Reply:Nice job.  Winner winner, chicken dinner! (in the lower right corner ) 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:We have chickens too!
Reply:and to think I use to stick weld exhaust.  of course that was before I knew what I was doing.  I was young lances age putting duals on all my buddies trucks.  cherry bombs, hush thrushes, and straight pipes were my specialty.  if it wasn't loud we did put it on.
Reply:Originally Posted by Scott Youngand to think I use to stick weld exhaust.  of course that was before I knew what I was doing.  I was young lances age putting duals on all my buddies trucks.  cherry bombs, hush thrushes, and straight pipes were my specialty.  if it wasn't loud we did put it on.
Reply:Nice job Joe.How'd you like the 7014?I've done the same with 6013, when it's too breezy for mig.Lincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:Originally Posted by Scott Youngand to think I use to stick weld exhaust.  of course that was before I knew what I was doing.....
Reply:Sure you can. It just takes practice.  It is easier once you get the hang of it due to being able to bend your electrode.
Reply:I used to stick weld exhaust way way back in my days. The only stick welder I have around now is my TIG.
Reply:Yeah, not sure why everyone said it would be so difficult.  Granted I did almost all of the welding off the vehicle.  I did weld the hanger in place on the truck though.The 7014 made life easy, my welder loves it   Which is good since I can't run a whole lot of anything else on it.I did pick up some 5/64" 6013 which should be good for this machine but haven't had a chance to open the package and try it out.  They're all sealed in plastic though so no worries there.  I was going to try it on the exhaust if the 7014 wasn't working out, but it went so easily that I didn't even bother trying the 6013.