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It seems there is much controversy over your machines. This is both in the good light and bad light. I would like to pursue doing a review of your machines based upon several tests set up in a scientific manner. This will be an un-biased opinion from 3 to 6 professional welders, certified in SS pipe welding, to conduct several tests in plasma cutting, Tungsten Inert Gas welding and Shielded Metal Arc Welding. The machines utilized will be a Miller Synchrowave 300, a Lincoln Precision Tig 250, a Hypertherm 800, and a Miller Spectrum 625. All tests will be conducted in a controlled environment with specific settings. A brand new digital positioner, with LED readout, will be used to maintain specific parameters in speed of weld and cut. Send your machine, I will pay shipping both ways. Any takers?John - fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!- bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:I think that would be a great idea. But to be fair (and more objective) the test should be conducted for 1 year, using a different machine from each supplier every month. That way you could objectively show how "good" the machine is. This way you could avoid any "ringers" that would happen to get pawned off to you.After one month, the machines are returned to the dealer, with any defects noted, such as consumables used, any repairs made, damages in shipping/shop time, things like that. Then the machines could be sold as used.This test would help the hobby users that need a TIG, Plasma for small projects or that one off project. In my case it's hard to justify spending $2000-$4000 on a TIG welder for one or two projects, but I could justify spending $700-$900 on one to weld aluminum, steel headers, gun repairs & such. I have been watching EBay & Craigslist for the past year, but cannot justify the expense of the high dollar machines.I would be very interested in the test results. Mainly for the reasons stated above.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:I would think in the order of fairness you should compare machines with similar amperage ranges and features. Also Longevity and everlast don;t seem to be really marketing themselves as products for pro welders...I could be wrong on that and I am sure they will disagree as soon as they catch wind of this topic. Just one mans opinion.'Mike
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZoneIt seems there is much controversy over your machines. This is both in the good light and bad light. I would like to pursue doing a review of your machines based upon several tests set up in a scientific manner. This will be an un-biased opinion from 3 to 6 professional welders, certified in SS pipe welding, to conduct several tests in plasma cutting, Tungsten Inert Gas welding and Shielded Metal Arc Welding. The machines utilized will be a Miller Synchrowave 300, a Lincoln Precision Tig 250, a Hypertherm 800, and a Miller Spectrum 625. All tests will be conducted in a controlled environment with specific settings. A brand new digital positioner, with LED readout, will be used to maintain specific parameters in speed of weld and cut. Send your machine, I will pay shipping both ways. Any takers?
Reply:i know they can write it off on their taxes. years ago, i owned a trapping supply company and made several modifications and even built several larger traps. i would send the larger hog and livestock traps to testers and it was a write off when i did. at the end of the testing period, i would then donate the traps to youngsters or ffa groups. you can't sell the product after you have written it off on your taxes, or at least that was what my cpa told me. well they could have the units tested and then donate them to younger welders that was looking to become a welder/fitter. i know i would have loved to have a welder at the age of 13.
Reply:What I'm saying is to have a professional welder test these & give an unbiased opinion of them. That would be invaluable for the hobby welder like me.I can make a MIG run ok, but I wouldn't want to take a job with my skills. They are ok for what I do, I trust my own welds & can repair things with it. I can weld with Oxy, stick, but not TIG. Never done it & it's one of those things I want to learn. As much as I will be TIG welding, a hobby welder will fit my needs. If I need more power, I'll either MIG or Stick it.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Sounds like a great idea to me.
Reply:Looks like the Original Poster should contact a few vendors...David Real world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:When I work for the boiler manufacturer, we would send stuff out for evaluation, and most of the testing facilities would set the rules, The test was clearly defined, with set operating procedures, and was set to the rating of the test units. If it buzzed and rattled the report would say so, if the unit failed either to run or meet specs, the report said so. They gave the supplier an opportunity to get a working unit to them if it failed and would retest using the replacement unit, but the report said so, and explained all differences and problems, and ended up not only doing the original test, but at that point tested the original unit against the replacement unit. Other than initial set up or being told the original unit had failed and a replacement was necessary, there was to be no contact between the supplier and the tester until the testing was complete. The final report was given out on a specific day, and the supplier and everyone else who was interested, got the report at that time, there was no preview of the report by the supplier, they had to live with the final results, and could if they wanted to, comment on the results at that time. Thats the way all of our testing was done, to give a clear and unbiased judgement. It will be interesting to see if any or all of them suppliers agree.Jack
Reply:I would really like to see that! If you could keep one of the neverlast welders running long enough to get a puddle that is! Based on my personal experience with the Everlast Super 160p and 200p - all four that I received over 7 months were DOA right out of the box. If welding was my only line of work, I would have starved to death. The vendor is bragging via email of a 80% success rate with good units vs defective ones - which seems like an abysmal failure to me. He also seems to feel I should be grateful for the $400 he spent shipping defective replacements for his defective merchandise.The vendor was however, kind enough to refund some of my money however I am still out $180.If they take the challenge, they should test the welder well beforehand otherwise all you will have to report on is how difficult it is to get one that really works.Have fun!
Reply:I think it's probably an unfair comparison to compare these machines to something like a Miller, or other big name brand... because they're simply not in the same class. however, perhaps that's what people want to see, how a professional machine varies from a hobby machine.Imagine a comparison of several machines, and at some point in a comparison chart, they be ranked as an overall rating...such as P1 would be a 1st class professional machine, and a H1 would be a 1st class hobby machine. You could then have P1, P2, P3, H1, H2, and H3.
Reply:I'm not looking for a comparison between "Professional" machines & these machines. What I'm looking for is an honest evaluation of these machines for performance as defined by the sales brochures.I would be very interested in a comparison between the two machines i.e. Everlast -vs- Longevity, model for model, sales brochure for sales brochure.I think Jack has the correct idea on how to perform the tests. Personally I would choose the winner of the evaluation for a purchase in the next year. Now is the time for the sales people to stop being "used car salesmen" (i.e. lying to everyperson they see to make a sale) & step up to the plate.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:I don't think there is much to compare between an Everlast and Longevity machine. They are in the same class, same price range........When I looked at the grey plasma cutter, the LWS said "take it and try it out", so I did. It claimed it would cut 3/4". It did and cut 1/2" like butter. Consumables last way longer than my older Linde unit with a PT31XL torch. Never brought it back, just wrote a check. DavidReal world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:And just "Who" will be the unbiased "Professional" welders???Not me..Count me out.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:It's funny to me that they will delete any post that does not boast their product within a few minutes even if it's true, yet this post has been up for several hours, and still no response from either of them. Guess they don;t have as much faith in their product as they like to pretend they do.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:I'll be trying achieve World Peace this year.( I probably have a better chance)Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Thanks for the backing of the idea. I think there is a fair way to conduct the test. They are touting these machines as equals to Miller, Lincoln and Hobart. So why not complete a full comparison test?John - fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!- bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZoneThanks for the backing of the idea. I think there is a fair way to conduct the test. They are touting these machines as equals to Miller, Lincoln and Hobart. So why not complete a full comparison test?
Reply:That's like comparing apples to oranges. All the big names use a different technology than these two. But to be fair, I would like to see a comparison to each other. That would be comparing apples to apples.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Day 2, still nothing. I also have a Clarke FCAW/GMAW machine that I will put up against their "import" units and its TIG or SMAW feature. I guess they don't make a MIG'er machine?John - fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!- bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterAnd just "Who" will be the unbiased "Professional" welders???Not me..Count me out.....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabZap, Micro said "professional" weldors...that pretty much excludes you anyways, doesn't it?
Reply:Well, I just sent them a PM letting them know about this challenge. I guess we will see now just how much they think of those machines. I Know these machines aren't in the class with professional machines, but if they are gonna make claims that they are, and then delete any criticism that shows up then I say it's time to find out.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabZap, Micro said "professional" weldors...that pretty much excludes you anyways, doesn't it?
Reply:If they really believed in their product they would put up some you tube stuff with at the very least some short video of them tiging some steel, ss, and aluminum. Then some stick with 6010(or 110 and some 7018 in all the various positions...or just weld up some pipe. With that said you will never see them do any of that. I say big friggin deal about their crap arsed video of them using their plasma cutter. Put up or shut up kids.'MikeHey John..I think it's a little past Snomobile time.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:A video of unpacking one, plugging it in and turning it on. Then making a phone call for a warranty replacement, because it won't power up. I do not like the fact they are deleting posts they do not like. If they would give us an ignore button for their forums so when someone hits New Posts their lame idea of advertising does not appear on my screen. One can only tell the majority of their posts are plants to try to gain excitement and creditability of said products. If this is a separate forum where Bob does not have control to delete posts and they do give us that button.Charlie
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterHey John..I think it's a little past Snomobile time.....zap!
Reply:We have one of the wse200 units here in our workshops in the UK. it's not a bad welder to be honest. However about a month ago it started to play up. Sent it away and it came back repaired stating the machine was full of grinding dust.Since it was returned it welds fine for maybe 2/3 hrs and then starts to play up. It's now back with them.Since then all the units we have now have filters on the rear of the unit to stop the ingress of grinding dust. It's amazing how quickly these filters get dirty. Hopefully this will increase the life span of all our weldersLast edited by Shox Dr; 07-06-2008 at 02:11 PM.
Reply:Hello All .. Sorry i found out about this challenge only today .. would be interested and i have new line comming inOleg [email protected]/650 588 8588 x201www.linkedin.com/pub/oleg-gladshteyn/48/b08/875
Reply:Originally Posted by ironman715I would think in the order of fairness you should compare machines with similar amperage ranges and features. Also Longevity and everlast don;t seem to be really marketing themselves as products for pro welders...I could be wrong on that and I am sure they will disagree as soon as they catch wind of this topic. Just one mans opinion.'Mike
Reply:OOOOO!Maybe time will tell after all.
Reply:This otta be good.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:MicroZone,We have a Cut50D that will do what the Miller 625 does. The Miller is $1,500, our unit is $500. We can send you a Cut80D that is our $1,500 unit?We would like to get a review from someone not with Everlast and I think you will be fair in that with your standings here at weldingweb.com.. Just let us know which unit on the plasma cutter.On the welder. You need an AC/DC TIG/MMA unit and 300 AMPS output. Syncrowave 300/Lincoln 6520 is $5,000+, we have a new unit that is $2,500 and we expect to ship them shortly. Would that be the unit you want to review?Last edited by EVERLAST_SUPPORT; 07-06-2008 at 07:23 PM.
Reply:I care nothing about price point. This is obviously important to your customers but is not important to me. What IS important is quality per dollar cost. If the quality suffers, then it is not such a bargain after all, correct? When you go out and buy a reliable vehicle to transport yourself and possibly your family, what do you buy? As far as the units, if the plasma is a 40 amp unit, then it will be compared to a 40 amp unit. If the welder is a 90 or 100 amp unit, it will be compared to a similar unit. I have quite a few machines that we use, that was just a base example. Have a good night.John - fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!- bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:Originally Posted by MicroZoneI care nothing about price point. This is obviously important to your customers but is not important to me. What IS important is quality per dollar cost. If the quality suffers, then it is not such a bargain after all, correct? When you go out and buy a reliable vehicle to transport yourself and possibly your family, what do you buy? As far as the units, if the plasma is a 40 amp unit, then it will be compared to a 40 amp unit. If the welder is a 90 or 100 amp unit, it will be compared to a similar unit. I have quite a few machines that we use, that was just a base example. Have a good night.
Reply:For the hobbyist these inexpensive machines may be just the ticket.But, for us business owners-Are you going to compare customer support?Warranties?Availability of consumables?So the machine may last 10 years or more. Will the manufacturer be around after that time for replacement parts if something fails? Will I be able to get it repaired locally or will it have to be sent across/out of the country?As a business owner, I like the peice of mind knowing my LWS, Miller, Lincoln, etc. will always be there for me with repair parts, a quick turn around and free loaner machines when/if they are needed. Time is money.If I have a machine failure, a quick phone call to my LWS will have me back up within the hour. Hard to put a price on that.
Reply:I am skeptical of the Everlast/Longevity machines because I have heard so many horror stories about DOA units and other things. Honestly its not about the cash per se...its about a quality unit. I mean there is a reason I am in the market for an HTP Invertig 201...it has good reviews from pretty much everyone who has one(same with the TA 185 I am also looking into as well). I have never been one to believe just because a company has big marketing that they are the best item. I have used brands like Hooker aero chamber mufflers when Flowmaster and Dynomax are all over the radar with advertrising. I found it to be a great item but almost no one in my gear head circles had ever really used one or really knew Hooker was making mufflers like that.I am not loyal to blue or red(or orange or whatever) I am loyal to a machine/company who has a legit product that works as promised. If Longevity or Everlast had a product that looked like it was geared for pro welders or a serious hobby welder then I would look much stronger into their stuff. I have a Hobart Handler 135(I think anyways) its a good machine but not what I would call a pro unit. At this point Hobart is not marketed as a pro machine so I don't expect pro machine standards ect...So UNTIL these "other guys" have a pro style machine I will look elsewhere. The fact is their stuff is not meant to be put up to the serious amount of useage that a pro(like myself and many others) or even a serious hobby welder are going to put it under. It seems like(if it works that is) that they are really meant for a cat who is building a car/truck/off road toy ect.. and needs a decent welder/cutter.Now all that being said just because its a hobby welder does not mean it should not function as advertised....to all the reports of DOA units and other serious issues I say shame on you for that. No excuse...saying you have a rate of 80%(or so) success in good units being shipped is not acceptable to this welder or any other. This ain't baseball where if you hit the ball 3 times out of 10 you are a super star with a 300 average...in REAL life thats a crap average and not even close to passing...How about this...people only pay you 80% of the time after you have shipped their unit...that suddenly does not seem cool does it Mr.Big shot welding machine company owner.Honestly why you don't test EVERY machine in a wide array of settings(tig and stick) in a wide array of amperages with various sticks/fillers is beyond me. Hire a guy just out of welding school to do this...or maybe hire an old retired crusty welder to test them. I mean come on guys thats plain BS. Its sad to say but YOU are giving your machines a bad rep...I mean what the hell kind of business plan is that? Now I am just a welder/ironworker and not a business guy but that seems a bit bassackwards to me. I will wrap this up by saying step up and take a swing kid. Show us your stuff is not crap and worth every penny and is an AMAZING deal.'Mike
Reply:Your new welder is comparable to a Miller is that because you modified some design features and told your China builder to copy them? BTW do you have permission to use Miller's name as a comparison?
Reply:i have to chime in here i bought a chinese plasma cutter over a year ago and i have been pleasantly suprised with it. on the other hand i bought a tig welder last october and it only lasted for maybe 5-6 hrs of arc time before it quit working. i think it is just a luck of the draw with these machines until they get better quality control sometimes you come out good other times you dont. they are probably alright for the hobby people but not at all acceptable for a professional.
Reply:Yeah and if they cant sell the machines after comparing them, they could have a contest or drawing for them. Or donate to FFA or a VoTech school.Miller Thunderbolt 225Millermatic 130 XPLincoln HD 100 Forney C-5bt Arc welderPlasma Cutter Gianteach Cut40ACent Machinery Bandsaw Cent Machinery 16Speed Drill PressChicago Electric 130amp tig/90 ArcHobart 190 Mig spoolgun ready
Reply:Better jump on this one MicroZone.David Real world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:There was a bad batch of Super160P/Super200P units. Normally, we have a 5% failure rate. And this bad batch only impacted that model, no other.Everlast recalled and replaced them under warranty as any company would.We would like to keep the posts positive and professional here on weldingweb.com, many seem to find that hard to do. On consumables. They are always in stock. As well, others as mentioned stock them.
Reply:A failure rate of any percentage over 2 means you have a lousy manufacturer period, no welding manufacturer in America would let a product out there door with out knowing they have or could have a five percent failure rate.
Reply:It sounds like a great idea to me. The important thing is that the test would have to be designed to compare critical features and performance issues. Here are a few that I would suggest:1. Input voltage / current capability....will the unit operate well in the field on a generator, or with varying input voltage?2. Ease of use, availability of consumables.3. Cost per foot of cut. This should be figured out by performing piercing and cutting a certain length and thickness of material....and when the consumables fail...or start to misfire constistently....then figure out how many feet of cut per consumable dollar spent. (If you just use price comparisons of consumables without figuring life and cut performance....then most of the well engineered systems would lose...as their consumable parts designs may be more complicated/costly)4.Power supply/torch design features. (power supply construction, weight, reliability, parts availability, warranty......torch design, safety features, drag cutting ability, pierce thickness, etc.Hypertherm would certainly be willing to provide a unit for this type of testing assuming that a proper test procedure was outlined...and that comparative models were used.I notice in the original post that it mentioned a "Hypertherm 800"....there is no such machine! Maybe the 600 was what was meant......actually, as of this week the Powermax600 is discontinued...and has been replaced with the Powermax45 http://www.powerfulplasma.com Hypertherm does internal comparison tests on most competitive systems in its facility in New Hampshire...the tests are used to benchmark the performance of all available plasma systems to ensure that our products provide what we consider to be the best value. We do not publish these tests as they would certainly be considered biased if our products proved to perform best. Once again...we would be happy to be involved in a good apples to apples independant review of competitive plasma systems!Jim ColtLast edited by jimcolt; 07-07-2008 at 08:12 AM.
Reply:I'm interested to see how this turns out as well. I have and probably always will buy Miller products but it will be good to see if there are other options available for others that provide good results.Chinese manufactured products are only as good as you want them to be. There are lots of companies that have products manufactured in China with exacting tolerances...my $1000 Olympus digital SLR camera for instance. I've never had any issues and the optics are amazing. Other China made products I've run into aren't so good...be it poor/no quality control, inferior components, etc.Although I do think there is some validity to "you get what you pay for", I don't think you can "rubber stamp" all China made products as being garbage.Just my $0.02. www.lindgrensupercars.comMiller Dynasty 350Miller Dynasty 200DX - retiredMiller Millermatic 210Miller Spectrum 3080Miller "Power of Blue" stool Miller Syncrowave 180SD - retired
Reply:Great Idea, Will WeldingWeb take on the challenge? Does WW do any product reviews? I looked quickly but didn't see any other than mfg info and press releases.For myself I would like to see machines compared by capacity not price. I am in the market for a AC/DC 200 amp Pulse machine so I would want to see a 1-phase 115/230v 200 AMP AC/DC shootout! Miller Dynasty DX vs. Lincoln V205T vs. ArcMaster TA 200 (or 185) vs. HTP 201 vs. WMSE 200P vs. IGBT 200 Ac/DC and let the chips fall where they may. Price is a concern of course. If they all cost the same I would pick XXXX and be done with it. I would like to know what I am loosing buy buying brand Z at 1/2 cost over brand Y and make my decision based of if its worth it for my situation.Bring it ON! Ca$h in HAND!
Reply:Originally Posted by F3XGreat Idea, Will WeldingWeb take on the challenge? Does WW do any product reviews? I looked quickly but didn't see any other than mfg info and press releases.For myself I would like to see machines compared by capacity not price. I am in the market for a AC/DC 200 amp Pulse machine so I would want to see a 1-phase 115/230v 200 AMP AC/DC shootout! Miller Dynasty DX vs. Lincoln V205T vs. ArcMaster TA 200 (or 185) vs. HTP 201 vs. WMSE 200P vs. IGBT 200 Ac/DC and let the chips fall where they may. Price is a concern of course. If they all cost the same I would pick XXXX and be done with it. I would like to know what I am loosing buy buying brand Z at 1/2 cost over brand Y and make my decision based of if its worth it for my situation.Bring it ON! Ca in HAND!
Reply:Originally Posted by ironman715I am skeptical of the Everlast/Longevity machines because I have heard so many horror stories about DOA units and other things.
Reply:I apologize, I've been busy working. EL - if you're ready, I can send my address via PM. I have 2 welders set up to run the trials, plus myself. I will be as objective as possible as I believe everyone and everything deserves a fair shake.John - fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!- bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:31:21