Miller 200DX or HTP 221

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Hello everyone,My boss is getting ready to pull the trigger on a tig machine.  He is willing to spend the $4000 on the Cyberweld contractor package (will probably just piece everything together).  I just want to know if this the best option for what I am going to be using it for.  We do a lot of pretty small intricate SS fabrication using mostly silver solder.  I want to move the tig process as the post weld cleanup is practically nil.  Is the Dynasty with the Blue Lighting going to give me more stable and consistent arc starts on low amperage DC compared to the HTP?  Also, on aluminum, how important is the individual amperage adjustment for EP/EN on thin or tiny intricate work?  Last, we have 208 3 phase at work, will the HTP be able to deliver the rated output power (220 amps) with this feed or will it bring it back down to the 200dx output level on the top end.  Thanks ahead of time for the help.Regards,Justin
Reply:I've never used the 200dx although I really want to try it. I can tell you I love my 221. It's very stable, no issues whatsoever. It runs no 220v single phase, so you would have to drop a leg on your 3phase. I think that's how you do it.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleI've never used the 200dx although I really want to try it. I can tell you I love my 221. It's very stable, no issues whatsoever. It runs no 220v single phase, so you would have to drop a leg on your 3phase. I think that's how you do it.
Reply:It will run on 208,220,240.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Not voting for one or the other, but you could always call USA Weld.  They answer the phone.  You would probably be happy with either machine if it fits your requirements.
Reply:If you can get the HTP221 to work in your setup, I'd get that if I were you. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:I called USA Weld and the lady I talked to said it will run on two hot legs of 208 3 phase but the maximum rated output will be lower.  She didn't know what it would be though.  So at work there may not be a difference between the two (top end).
Reply:No it will run on single phase only.Read, bottom of page 5http://www.usaweld.com/v/vspfiles/pd...221_Manual.pdfTorchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:My personal opinion, if you were going to get the dual voltage HTP and it wasn't on sale, I would just spend the extra bucks and get the Miller.  If it was the 220v model and it was on sale it would be a harder decision.  If I were spending the bosses money on a machine, the Miller hands down, and wouldn't think twice about it.
Reply:ESAB 281i.    See related thread about it.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:I cant tell you which is better but i had to make this choice not long ago and this it what i know. Both machines are great. Htp has a lot going for them in the customer service side they have a good warranty too. They seem to cater more toward the automotive folks though and i have a hard time believing that an automotive welder is going to use it as much as a full time welder. I dont know if that matters, but i want a machine that is going to be used hard and often and last for years to come. Htp dosnt seem to have been producing these machines for long enough for any real data to be known yet on these machines. I am not saying this is fact i just couldnt find this out. Miller speaks for it self. It is an amazing machine but customer service is a bit harder to come by. I use the pulser a lot and the ac balance and frequency adjustment too beyond that all the bells and wistles seem a little unnessissary most of the time.i havent used the htp i went miller. I love the autoline feature. If htp had that and sold it for the base price then i would have gone with them. I dont think you are going to have a problem with low amp arc starts with either machine. They both seem to be great machines and i dont think that it is ever a black and white decision when you are spending this kind of money unless you have already used both machines extencively. Please excuse the horrible grammer and spelling. Thats my 2 cents and it is probably all it is worth.2 invision 456 mp, 456 pheonix, 3 hypertherm 1250, Hypertherm 45,Dynasty 200dx, Millermatic 210 w/ spoolgun, Bobcat 250, 12vs extreme, slugger dry cut saw, slugger mag drill, O/A rig, Piles of tools
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleNo it will run on single phase only.Read, bottom of page 5http://www.usaweld.com/v/vspfiles/pd...221_Manual.pdf
Reply:Originally Posted by 96708I cant tell you which is better but i had to make this choice not long ago and this it what i know. Both machines are great. Htp has a lot going for them in the customer service side they have a good warranty too. They seem to cater more toward the automotive folks though and i have a hard time believing that an automotive welder is going to use it as much as a full time welder. I dont know if that matters, but i want a machine that is going to be used hard and often and last for years to come. Htp dosnt seem to have been producing these machines for long enough for any real data to be known yet on these machines. I am not saying this is fact i just couldnt find this out. Miller speaks for it self. It is an amazing machine but customer service is a bit harder to come by. I use the pulser a lot and the ac balance and frequency adjustment too beyond that all the bells and wistles seem a little unnessissary most of the time.i havent used the htp i went miller. I love the autoline feature. If htp had that and sold it for the base price then i would have gone with them. I dont think you are going to have a problem with low amp arc starts with either machine. They both seem to be great machines and i dont think that it is ever a black and white decision when you are spending this kind of money unless you have already used both machines extencively. Please excuse the horrible grammer and spelling. Thats my 2 cents and it is probably all it is worth.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawESAB 281i.    See related thread about it.
Reply:Originally Posted by ja_cainHello everyone,My boss is getting ready to pull the trigger on a tig machine.  He is willing to spend the $4000 on the Cyberweld contractor package (will probably just piece everything together).  I just want to know if this the best option for what I am going to be using it for.  We do a lot of pretty small intricate SS fabrication using mostly silver solder.  I want to move the tig process as the post weld cleanup is practically nil.  Is the Dynasty with the Blue Lighting going to give me more stable and consistent arc starts on low amperage DC compared to the HTP?  Also, on aluminum, how important is the individual amperage adjustment for EP/EN on thin or tiny intricate work?  Last, we have 208 3 phase at work, will the HTP be able to deliver the rated output power (220 amps) with this feed or will it bring it back down to the 200dx output level on the top end.  Thanks ahead of time for the help.Regards,Justin
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelon3 phase you say?Buy a 3 phase designed machine.  You ROI will thank you.
Reply:Originally Posted by 96708I cant tell you which is better but i had to make this choice not long ago and this it what i know. Both machines are great. Htp has a lot going for them in the customer service side they have a good warranty too. They seem to cater more toward the automotive folks though and i have a hard time believing that an automotive welder is going to use it as much as a full time welder. I dont know if that matters, but i want a machine that is going to be used hard and often and last for years to come. Htp dosnt seem to have been producing these machines for long enough for any real data to be known yet on these machines. I am not saying this is fact i just couldnt find this out. Miller speaks for it self. It is an amazing machine but customer service is a bit harder to come by. I use the pulser a lot and the ac balance and frequency adjustment too beyond that all the bells and wistles seem a little unnessissary most of the time.i havent used the htp i went miller. I love the autoline feature. If htp had that and sold it for the base price then i would have gone with them. I dont think you are going to have a problem with low amp arc starts with either machine. They both seem to be great machines and i dont think that it is ever a black and white decision when you are spending this kind of money unless you have already used both machines extencively. Please excuse the horrible grammer and spelling. Thats my 2 cents and it is probably all it is worth.
Reply:Originally Posted by ja_cainHello everyone,My boss is getting ready to pull the trigger on a tig machine.  He is willing to spend the $4000 on the Cyberweld contractor package (will probably just piece everything together).  I just want to know if this the best option for what I am going to be using it for.  We do a lot of pretty small intricate SS fabrication using mostly silver solder.  I want to move the tig process as the post weld cleanup is practically nil.  Is the Dynasty with the Blue Lighting going to give me more stable and consistent arc starts on low amperage DC compared to the HTP?  Also, on aluminum, how important is the individual amperage adjustment for EP/EN on thin or tiny intricate work?  Last, we have 208 3 phase at work, will the HTP be able to deliver the rated output power (220 amps) with this feed or will it bring it back down to the 200dx output level on the top end.  Thanks ahead of time for the help.Regards,Justin
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelsonI have a dynasty 350, but the features are similar. Is the Dynasty with the Blue Lighting going to give me more stable and consistent arc starts on low amperage DC compared to the HTP? ****depends on what you like for an arc start. I now do all arc starts-AC & DC, custom tailored in the Gen program settings. The Blue Lightening start was waaay too much amperage and violent to my liking. For small and thin items, a soft, civilized start that YOU can ramp up-not the factory-helps. Also, on aluminum, how important is the individual amperage adjustment for EP/EN on thin or tiny intricate work?***The independent EP/EN programming is not available on the 200DX, only the 350 and larger.This is one very big reason as to how and why....relatively thick to massive parts of ALare welded with small electrodes, precisely and quickly. Miller's Chris Razor videos of welding large AL engine blocks point this out. Massive, focused, unbalanced arc succeeds where all other methods fail. The EP/EN feature allows much more heat input--thru the ground cable,not the torch. Ditto for running unbalanced. This intense focused arc is just as important on thin and small AL.On the HTP, I'd suspect that it will run AL nicely-running fully unbalanced.There's more arc wander that can be compensated by AC freq. increase (which reduces the heatinput) and by operator techniques in dealing with the arc wander.What will help on AL is the range of AC freq. settings and the amount of 'unbalance' that is available.***The AC waveform selection available with the 200 DX is helpful, as well.Pulsing on SS is ditto helpful.Advanced tiggers with lots of bench time, can notice/appreciate/use the advanced features of a 200/350/700 more readily than those with low time--who don't really know what theyshould be looking for in the arc characteristics, how to read the heat and work the puddle.
Reply:Dave,Also, thanks for your insight/input on the blue lighting arc starts.  That is exactly the info I was looking for.  When you are welding small SS parts you definitely don't want a stong/violent arc start unless you like blowing holes in stuff.  I like to have enough time to  shape/form/establish the puddle to my liking.Justin
Reply:Where are you located at? Perhaps someone in your area has one or the other and you can try it out. All the specs in the world don't mean anything unless it feels right.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleWhere are you located at? Perhaps someone in your area has one or the other and you can try it out. All the specs in the world don't mean anything unless it feels right.
Reply:Originally Posted by ja_cainDave,Thanks for touching on the advantages of individual amperage adjustment and a/c frequency.  It makes sense that by being able to focus more power in the EN direction for penetration and just enough power in the EP direction for breaking up the oxide layer can allow for much better performance with the smaller more focused tungsten (especially with increased frequency).  I would assume that you could also get away with using an air cooled torch at higher amperage with the individual amperage adjustments too.  It's a bummer miller didn't include this feature in the 200dx.  What are your thoughts (if any) on the new ESAB  281i?  I don't think it includes individual amperage adjustment though (I could be wrong) http://www.esabna.com/us/en/products...roduct_ID=1351The HTP 221 has the individual adjustment parameters plus you can store a lot of custom settings too.  One thing I could do to overcome the low source voltage (208) is to use a bucking transformer.  I just implemented one in a chiller setup that would only work on 220 single phase and it bumped the voltage to 230 and the chiller worked fine.  The transformer was reasonably priced for the 30 amp rated one too.  I spec one that will work for the HTP current requirements.  Thanks again everyone for the helpful input and discussion.  I am learning a lot!Justin
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelson" I would assume that you could also get away with using an air cooled torch at higher amperage with the individual amperage adjustments too. It's a bummer miller didn't include this feature in the 200dx.  What are your thoughts (if any) on the new ESAB  281i?  I don't think it includes individual amperage adjustment though (I could be wrong) http://www.esabna.com/us/en/products...roduct_ID=1351"-running unbalanced puts most of the current thru the ground, not the torch-the specs. for those ESAB units, look similar to what was on my TA 300 GTSW (ac/dc tig),which died on me after 16 years service. On DC tig it was very good.AC tig, I'd run (most of the time) 90% unbalanced with AC freq. at the min. of 20 CPS.These settings were for max heat input. The arc wandering was tolerable and could bemanaged with torch manipulation. IOW, the spec's. of those ESAB machines are for good, basic inverter units that are highly capable.The dynasty 200 and especially the 350/700 have a host of other features (including tailoringheat input on DC pulse for SS). Coupled with the computerized menu, sub menus and routines,it's a steep learning curve, takes practice and study to figure out one's way for a basic setup.I realized after a while, that everything I thought I knew about setting up a trannie or inverter,I needed to ignore in setting up the 350. With the raft of various features available, there's more than one way to get decent results--a big part of that dependent on the operator skill.In trying various setups both AC and DC, I continue to be amazed at just what the machinecan do as the arc is tailored--tailoring it in ways that would never work on a basic trannie orbasic inverter. It's a real hoot!      I keep a running, written log of various setups, along with setup notes on work thathas pic documentation, to help remind me of what worked-on what/why/how. There's routinesstored in the memory, but those get constantly modified from one job to the next-that's whythe notes. Almost all of what I do is one-off, repair or fab-not production runs.
Reply:Originally Posted by ja_cainDave,Thanks again for all of the great info.  Small/intricate/thin SS stuff has been our bread and butter historically.  Everything we do here is one off or repair work.  My buddy collects old chainsaws and says that he has a lot of repair work on the mag cases that he could send me.  I would love to have a 350dx, as it would be the last tig I would ever need.  I could always go with the 200dx and then sell it later to upgrade as I see that they hold their value.  Also, I like that you take notes on various jobs with photos so you can refer back.  This is something I am going to implement asap on all of the welding processes I use.JustinOne thing to take note of, the Dynasty can go down to 1Amp.  What this means, when you use pulse, the low side of the pulse can be as little as 1 Amp.  Not sure how low you have to go but most inverters seem to start at 4-5 amps (the Dynasty 350 is 3).If you happen to welding at say, 5 amps , you essentially don't have pulse anymore because the low side would be capped at 4-5 amps.On the flip side, the higher AC frequency of the Dynasty is probably a non issue.  I've only experimented with running higher that 120.  Basically a feature you don't need.As for separate control of positive vs. negative.  I use it.  One thing it does it lets you push a smaller tungsten a bit further.  Tungsten can take EN better than EP (significant difference), however, for aluminum repair, the wave forms might be more useful.   Triangle wave allows for high peak current (to burn through anodizing, even existing oxides) yet let you control the average heat.  Bottom line, if you are doing aluminum, and cost isn't a real issue, go for the dynasty.If I were running a business, I would figure out which welders the LWS carries and services (and maybe rents).  Down time, although rare, when it happens it can easily suck down any savings in cost you thought you had.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Originally Posted by con_fuse9One thing to take note of, the Dynasty can go down to 1Amp.  What this means, when you use pulse, the low side of the pulse can be as little as 1 Amp.  Not sure how low you have to go but most inverters seem to start at 4-5 amps (the Dynasty 350 is 3).If you happen to welding at say, 5 amps , you essentially don't have pulse anymore because the low side would be capped at 4-5 amps.On the flip side, the higher AC frequency of the Dynasty is probably a non issue.  I've only experimented with running higher that 120.  Basically a feature you don't need.As for separate control of positive vs. negative.  I use it.  One thing it does it lets you push a smaller tungsten a bit further.  Tungsten can take EN better than EP (significant difference), however, for aluminum repair, the wave forms might be more useful.   Triangle wave allows for high peak current (to burn through anodizing, even existing oxides) yet let you control the average heat.  Bottom line, if you are doing aluminum, and cost isn't a real issue, go for the dynasty.If I were running a business, I would figure out which welders the LWS carries and services (and maybe rents).  Down time, although rare, when it happens it can easily suck down any savings in cost you thought you had.
Reply:I don't think the blue lighting adjusts the weld amperage. I weld 16ga stainless tubing and the blue lighting is awesome. It instantly fires up every single time and never struggles, even when I'm starting by barely tipping the pedal, at a few amps.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Hello Everyone,My boss pulled the trigger on the 200dx power supply today from Cyberweld.  I told him that I didn't want the package (contractor) and that I would just piece everything together as I think I want to get a flexhead torch with gas lense setup.  Has anyone recently pieced the accessories together on one of these and if so, what did you go with (brand, model, place of purchase, etc.).  I have chillers on hand that I could potentially use for a WC setup.  Also, I definitely want the dual regulator/flow meter with the ball roto-meter.  Any insight you guys can give me would be much appreciated.  Thanks to everyone for providing info/insight on which machine to purchase.  Without that I would not have purchased the best machine for the type of work that I do.Justin
Reply:I think either would of done well for you.Look on ebay, usa weld sells a lot of torches and has pretty good pricing. I still can't believe what they charge for the contractor package, it's crazy.Here is a pedalhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/RFCS-14-Foot...item2eafebacdaTorchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleI think either would of done well for you.Look on ebay, usa weld sells a lot of torches and has pretty good pricing. I still can't believe what they charge for the contractor package, it's crazy.Here is a pedalhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/RFCS-14-Foot...item2eafebacda
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonThat is an SSC controls controls foot control, and indeed is a great pedal. I have on and added a heel clip to it for dragging around.The aircooled flexhead torch I found to be the best after torching(?) 2 weldcraft and one TecTorch, is the CK-17-FX. The gas lenses I chose are the TecTorch stubby gas lense and nozzle kit from them.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonThat is an SSC controls controls foot control, and indeed is a great pedal. I have on and added a heel clip to it for dragging around.The aircooled flexhead torch I found to be the best after torching(?) 2 weldcraft and one TecTorch, is the CK-17-FX. The gas lenses I chose are the TecTorch stubby gas lense and nozzle kit from them.
Reply:I would like to see the heel clip as well.  That is one of the reasons I like the Miller HD pedals better than the SSC.
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleI think either would of done well for you.Look on ebay, usa weld sells a lot of torches and has pretty good pricing. I still can't believe what they charge for the contractor package, it's crazy.Here is a pedalhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/RFCS-14-Foot...item2eafebacda
Reply:Originally Posted by GamblePics of this heel clip? Never heard of it.
Reply:Justin,Check your PM. I have a Dynasty Contractor kit for sale.  Mostly stock miller parts (torch, case, cables, stinger), a brand new Miller finger control and a like new SSC pedal.  Everything you need to tig and stick with your new machine.  I can make up any custom parts you want included as well.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Cool mod on the SSC pedal Terry.  That's the ONLY reason I've ever preferred the miller pedal over it.  The SSC is more comfortable.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Terry, had a chuckle regarding the heal clip,  it got some attention!   Best  Bob
Reply:So far I have settled on the SSC Foot pedal (HTP) and Victor dual regulator/flowmeter.  Now I am stuck on the tig torch.  At first I was going to go with a CK 17 flexhead and nozzle kit http://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=7543http://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=5030but now I am looking at the CK TL2125. http://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?ma...oducts_id=9066Looks like it is the same size as the 17 but 200 amp rating and will need 9/16 power adapter though.  What do you guys think?  These are the master series so the nomenclature/part number is different than the standard series (confusing).  Anyone have any advise on the nozzle kit (has stubby setup)?  I would like to buy the torch and nozzle kit from one place if at all possible.  Thanks!Justin
Reply:HTP has those too. i buy all my torches from them. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...at=0&_from=R40Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Very cool mod for the SSC, shovelon. Next time I have the 221 out, I'm going to seriously consider it. The only thing holding me back is I often find myself on my side, underneath something, with the pedal between my legs. Maybe make it latch in or something....Cain, if you're looking at the part numbers for setting up a CK17 (aka CK 150 series) I have them on an order form around here from weldfabulous(awesome name lol. They carry a ton of CK stuff). I spent a good 4 hours piecing together all the bits from their catalog for their gas lens push on system in both standard and stubby (ps, stubby is AMAZING when you need it. Power of a 150A torch in a 9 size spot). I do like how CK sells those parts in single quantities as well. It's nice if you use 3/32nd a lot for example, but not 1/8th and 40 thou and don't need 10 of a single replacement part. As for arc-zone, I've had the lab get stuff from there, but the one time I looked at parts the shipping quote was astronomical for a couple pounds of stuff in a bag. I can only hope it was the automated system throwing a fit.I wish I had seen your thread earlier, as I've had a 221 since last march and regularly trek down to Fredericksburg for RC heli flying (Thornburg to be exact). I wouldn't have minded tossing the 221 in the back of the van with all the helis to let you try it out :PEdit: Here's a screen cut from the order. Looked it up on weldfab. The parts are some collets and bodies for standard 17 torches (gloves and a coat in there too...), but mostly the first time I tried out the CK gas lens system. I found I could just use the standard length push on silicone heat shield with the stubby parts. Seems to hold the cup better.Basically it's: *A 3/32nd "kit"; This supplies the std length push on body, a screen, collet, and cup. The system uses one body for std and stubby, with the screw in screens or "tungsten adapters" being sized so you only really need to buy this once.*Wedge collets for stubby size (decided to give them a shot. They work pretty well and don't seem to deform or lock up).Last edited by Commodore8888; 07-25-2013 at 11:33 PM.Reason: Added list.HTP Invertig 221-DV -- get's dragged everywhere.Syncro 200 -- "The Boat Anchor" at the lab.Lincoln 125 MIG
Reply:Originally Posted by Commodore8888Very cool mod for the SSC, shovelon. Next time I have the 221 out, I'm going to seriously consider it. The only thing holding me back is I often find myself on my side, underneath something, with the pedal between my legs. Maybe make it latch in or something....Cain, if you're looking at the part numbers for setting up a CK17 (aka CK 150 series) I have them on an order form around here from weldfabulous(awesome name lol. They carry a ton of CK stuff). I spent a good 4 hours piecing together all the bits from their catalog for their gas lens push on system in both standard and stubby (ps, stubby is AMAZING when you need it. Power of a 150A torch in a 9 size spot). I do like how CK sells those parts in single quantities as well. It's nice if you use 3/32nd a lot for example, but not 1/8th and 40 thou and don't need 10 of a single replacement part. As for arc-zone, I've had the lab get stuff from there, but the one time I looked at parts the shipping quote was astronomical for a couple pounds of stuff in a bag. I can only hope it was the automated system throwing a fit.I wish I had seen your thread earlier, as I've had a 221 since last march and regularly trek down to Fredericksburg for RC heli flying (Thornburg to be exact). I wouldn't have minded tossing the 221 in the back of the van with all the helis to let you try it out :PEdit: Here's a screen cut from the order. Looked it up on weldfab. The parts are some collets and bodies for standard 17 torches (gloves and a coat in there too...), but mostly the first time I tried out the CK gas lens system. I found I could just use the standard length push on silicone heat shield with the stubby parts. Seems to hold the cup better.Basically it's: *A 3/32nd "kit"; This supplies the std length push on body, a screen, collet, and cup. The system uses one body for std and stubby, with the screw in screens or "tungsten adapters" being sized so you only really need to buy this once.*Wedge collets for stubby size (decided to give them a shot. They work pretty well and don't seem to deform or lock up).
Reply:Look into the superflex cables, lighter and far far far more comfortable to use than a standard torch cable, they do not pull on your wrist at all, its like having your torch connected to the machine by a piece of limp spaghetti, not the stiff rubber that keeps trying to push the torch where it wants to be.
Reply:I don't know what the CK stubby kit looks like, but I use these for my 17 series torch. The copper parts I know for sure are made in USA.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Justin, which community college?  My son took classes at John Tyler in Chester."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumJustin, which community college?  My son took classes at John Tyler in Chester.
Reply:Quick update.  Here is what I have received so far.  I'm still waiting on the torch and associated parts, ground cable and gas line from regulator to machine.  Thanks again everyone for all of the helpful input.  Sorry about the crappy pic. JustinLast edited by ja_cain; 07-29-2013 at 06:24 PM.
Reply:Maybe it's just me, but I'd be pissed if I bought a welder and it didn't come with everything. I'm the person that wants to rip the box open and use it right away. I would hate to have that thing looking at me while I wait for the parts to show up.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleMaybe it's just me, but I'd be pissed if I bought a welder and it didn't come with everything. I'm the person that wants to rip the box open and use it right away. I would hate to have that thing looking at me while I wait for the parts to show up.