MIG weld stainless with 75/25 argon/co2?

admin

What happens if I use stainless steel MIG wire in my welder, but use the 75/25 Argon/CO2 mix gas instead of tri-mix?-- This space for rent.  Inquire within.
Reply:lots of blow holes & incomplete "wetting in" of the different pieces.  I tried it with thin .062 stainless & .023 wire.  Wasn't pretty.Tri-mix solved the problem.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:i read you can use  ar/co2 but it is a 98/2 or 95/5 might want to read this   http://www.weldreality.comMIG_welding_gases.htm have not tried but says it will workidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:Stainless can be welded with C25 for a shielding gas, but it will leave a heavy grey oxidation on the weld area.metalmagpie
Reply:sorry forgot a   /  http://www.weldreality.com/MIG_welding_gases.htmidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:The problem is with the higher concentration of CO2.  Carbon on stainless is bad.  Even carbon steel rubbing against stainless will cause corrosion.  In fact, cutting stainless with a high carbon steel drill bit will cause rust!   Right around 5% CO2 is the maximum you want with short circuit, solid wire.There are ways to use C25 however....Esab makes a dual shield wire that is partially shielded by flux core in the wire and partially shielded by C25.  The stuff is mucho expensive - to the tune of $600 for a 33lbs roll.You might be able to find similar wires for less, but don't keep your hopes up.At $600 range, you could buy an old TIG welder...  Like an old Dialarc HF or maybe Aircrafter.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Stainless steel, welded with a C25 shielding gas will leave a bead susceptable to rusting.  I've had to replace several sections of SS bow rails that were "repaired" with short arc mig and C25.  Beads rusted out.98% Argon/2% O2 is an approved mix for use with "Spray Arc" welding of SS.Never tried the Ar/CO2 mixes for SS.  Cost of the base materials/labor is too much to take a chance.  Tri-mix is what I use for short arc SS.  It's a pretty expensive mix, but a lot cheaper than having to redo my work.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:If I do exchange my Argoshield for this tri-mix, will I be able to weld mild steel with the tri-mix?-- This space for rent.  Inquire within.
Reply:Should be able to, but like Sundown said, it's more expensive.Forgot to say, with the Tri-mix, it will leave a black soot around the weld.  It brushes/wipes off easily & the welds are nice & shiny.MarkI haven't always been a nurse........Craftsman 12"x36" LatheEnco G-30B MillHobart Handler 175Lincoln WeldandPower 225 AC/DC G-7 CV/CCAdd a Foot Pedal to a Harbor Freight Chicago Electric 165A DC TIG PapaLion's Gate Build
Reply:Stan,Nope.Tri mix is a SS gas only.  Not suitable for mild steel.The other problem the "hobbiest" welder will run into is that most gas suppliers (at least in my area) do not fill the smaller bottles with tri-mix.  I keep a 330 on hand, even though I don't use it much, because it's the only SS mig gas I'm comfortable with.If it's a small job, you may want to look into finding someone with a tig that will knock it out for you.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:maybe  98/2 mix will still weld mild steelidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIStan,Nope.Tri mix is a SS gas only.  Not suitable for mild steel.The other problem the "hobbiest" welder will run into is that most gas suppliers (at least in my area) do not fill the smaller bottles with tri-mix.  I keep a 330 on hand, even though I don't use it much, because it's the only SS mig gas I'm comfortable with.If it's a small job, you may want to look into finding someone with a tig that will knock it out for you.
Reply:Prop Doc,When you recommend 98/2 I assume you're talking about an argon/O2 mix. That is a good mix for spray arc but useless for short arc, which I suspect the OP is talking about.98%Argon/2%CO2 is not a mix I'd recommend for short arc or spray.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:yes ,,  O2 was reading and here he is talking about mig gases using 98/2 ar -co2 and 95/5 ar-co2 www.weldreality.com under mig gasesLast edited by prop-doctor; 01-23-2011 at 10:54 PM.Reason: added more infoidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:Ed Craig is a snake oil salesman.Lots of "good advice" combined with a good amount of BS.  The difficulty comes trying to distinguish the two.I do a fair amount of "marine stainless" that is exposed to a salt environment.  I won't use anything but tri-mix for short arc mig on SS.   A company I did considerable consulting for use to do all the maintenance work for the textile industry in SW Virginia (Burlington, Dan River, etc).  A lot of the work was stainless.  ALL the short arc welding was done using tri mix as a covering gas (we're talking multi-million dollar refits).Use what you wish.  Just speaking from experience.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:another site was suggesting same mix ,used for spray a place i use to work for used 98/2 also, they build fuel tanks, for planes,trucks an such( alum and SS tanks most tanks were on robot welders. except for the bungs all hand welded Tig.i worked in the bus tank gaurd area,only did steelidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:Hey guys,O2I do a lot of SS repairs for several restaurants & use MIG, 309L w/Ar/CO2(98/2) that works well & never any issues. These are small repairs with generally broken racks, trays, & bins. I did make a couple of hoods with the same mix & also worked well.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:thanks papidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:The tri mix gas is 3 different gases. 90% Helium/8% Argon/2% CO2.Helium 90%= aids in penetration.Argon 8%= arc stays stable and keeps oxygen away.CO2 2%= cools the weld and keeps oxygen away. Limits carbon pick up in stainless.75/25 will not work. CO2 level too high,above 5%.http://www.weldreality.com/short_circuit_under100.htm"In the 1980s, Ed developed a MIG Gas Solution for stainless. and duplex, 98% Ar - 2% CO2. "CLICK on that " MIG WELDING GASES" entry on the navigation bar,nd he talks specifically aboutthis subject.The author is basically saying that for metals thinner metals <.100that the low spray transfer and .035 wire is best. ( hard to run .035 wire on a 110V mig.)Keeping the CO2 low is key to carbon pick up problems on stainless.But i know for a fact that trying to weld stainless with short arc,trimix gas and a 110v mig welding machine is almost impossible even on 22 ga. stainless.(manual)Ed's 98% -AR2% mix on 22 ga. stainless?????  Anyone want to try??? (manual,110V MIG short arc)Wire size your choice.Report back???Last edited by Donald Branscom; 01-25-2011 at 11:23 AM.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by stanwardWhat happens if I use stainless steel MIG wire in my welder, but use the 75/25 Argon/CO2 mix gas instead of tri-mix?
Reply:Originally Posted by MarkBall2lots of blow holes & incomplete "wetting in" of the different pieces.  I tried it with thin .062 stainless & .023 wire.  Wasn't pretty.Tri-mix solved the problem.
Reply:Originally Posted by prop-doctori read you can use  ar/co2 but it is a 98/2 or 95/5 might want to read this   http://www.weldreality.comMIG_welding_gases.htm have not tried but says it will work
Reply:NEVER... said to use a 110 v migwas just saying 98/2 will work on SS migNORE did i say it would work with  TIG i Tig SS all the time and alum also all i do is Tig for the last 20 yr just saying ya dont allways need the magic TRI-MIX ,Last edited by prop-doctor; 01-25-2011 at 11:52 AM.idealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:Originally Posted by prop-doctorNEVER... said to use a 110 v migwas just saying 98/2 will work on SS migNORE did i say it would work with  TIG i Tig SS all the time and alum also all i do is Tig for the last 20 yr just saying ya dont allways need the magic TRI-MIX ,
Reply:agreed... the reason for the forum [ inform and educate]  Yorkiepap uses this mix  and says he has good resultswe if we don't question -why and how - we would be back in the 'olden days of yore'idealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441Hey guys,I use a 220v MIG for my SS welding.Pic 1:  22ga (.031)SS, .030/309L, heat 1/wf 180ipm, 18cfh/98/2 ArCO2 --Lap joint.Pic 2:  1/8(.125)SS, 030/309L, heat 4/wf 576ipm, 18cfh/98/2 ArCO2-- T joint.Pic 3:  Bend test(.125).... no cracking & quite strong.I did a test to determine my limitations with SS as all of the SS repairs I do are all <.125 & the .125 is for some support areas with thicker support. All repairs have never been returned for a failure & I know personally the abuse some of the equipment gets as my customer is a regular & I do a lot of work for him. All I can suggest is for others to simply experiment as I did to determine if it is viable. I also use the information on Ed Craigs' site as there is much useful info. along with other sources. If you don't try it, you'll never know. It's either good or no good. I've just gotten myself into a habit of experimenting with everything I have to see if something can be done with my equip. & consumables before purchasing items not in stock.Denny Attached ImagesComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomWhat kind of welding machine? 110v or 220v?  Very important. Can we see a photo?
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey guys,I use a 220v MIG for my SS welding.Pic 1:  22ga (.031)SS, .030/309L, heat 1/wf 180ipm, 18cfh/98/2 ArCO2 --Lap joint.Pic 2:  1/8(.125)SS, 030/309L, heat 4/wf 576ipm, 18cfh/98/2 ArCO2-- T joint.Pic 3:  Bend test(.125).... no cracking & quite strong.Denny
Reply:Hey con fuse,I set up my old CE 151T2 for the thin SS repairs I get in. It has been a superb unit for sheetmetal applications & I had it in my mobile unit for auto resto's on sheetmetal replacement. I got a Miller 130, 110V unit to replace it since I could use the customers power. I brought it into the shop to use strictly for SS since the repair work from the restaurants really got busy.DennyAddendum: I forgot to answer your 2nd question. Yes, that is what the discoloration looked like on the T joint & it felt like spray, although I didn't really pay attention. I'll do another piece to determine & let you know. These were scrap pieces & I wire brushed them prior to welding to get the crap off them. Attached ImagesLast edited by yorkiepap; 01-26-2011 at 02:49 PM.Complete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Lol, saw this post and had to respond even though it's old. I worked for a company that built ethanol plant components and they were trying to cut corners with the cheaper gases. I got nothing but black mess and thousands of chills balls when it ran good. It can be done but clean up time if needed is 3 times. The key word in the best mix is helium.