Welding Gas Tank

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I know this question has been asked MANY times and there are a lot of threads out there on this. I have a very large gas tank that needs some work done on it. It's probably somewhere between 70 to 100 gallon tank. I need to cut some sections out and weld in new material (Not repair work, custom size work to fit in the back of a truck around wheel wells). The guy bought it off some guy on Craigslist empty. I have no idea how long it sat empty and neither does he. Is there a way to test and see if it will explode when I go to cut it? Once I get a section cut out, I can power wash the inside with soapy water, but I want to make sure it won't explode while I'm cutting it. It's been filled with water and drained several times. I heard one thing you can do is fill it with water and light the top of the water on fire to burn excess fuel but mine didn't catch at all. I but a candle in there on a boat made of tin foil and drained it so the candle would be burning after it was all drained and nothing happened at all. Does this probably mean I'm safe to cut, or does that tell me nothing at all?John 3:16(2) Miller Pheonix 456(2) Millermertic 252Dynasty 210DXHobart 210MVPDoringer D350 SA Cold SawScotchman 350LT Cold SawWebb 10x50 MillWebb 15x40 LatheGeka Bendicrop Ironworker
Reply:If it's been water-purged and there's nothing stuck to the inside walls that's going to leach out any more vapors, it sounds pretty safe.  Could always fill with water, orient the part you want to cut facing up, and cut it with water in it (obviously taking necessary precautions with any power tools around water, which is going to start leaking out when you start cutting).  The soapy powerwashing sounds like a good idea once you get it opened up.  Just make sure you rinse it really well.
Reply:I have heard of people using inert gas to purge out all the vapors that could still be present. Some have hooked the exhaust of their cars into the tank, not sure how effective that would be.- Christian M.C3 Welding & Fabrication - CNC Plasma Cutting-Mobile Welding-Custom welding and fabwww.c3welding.com
Reply:Water displaced you should be fine. Years ago, when the earth was cooling and dinosaurs still roamed the earth, my high school best buddy had a leak in the gas tank of his 1964 galaxy 500. Ok so there weren't any dinosaurs except at the Sinclair station. He took it to the local small town repair shop and the mechanic looked at it and told us to go fill the tank, as full as we could get it with gas and bring it back right away. He put it up on the hoist and braised the leaker with a full tank of gas. Liquid gas will boil but will not combust. Brazed patch held.We watched from the other side of the street.Sometimes I miss the old days, sometimes not so much.
Reply:Originally Posted by KingcreekWater displaced you should be fine. Years ago, when the earth was cooling and dinosaurs still roamed the earth, my high school best buddy had a leak in the gas tank of his 1964 galaxy 500. Ok so there weren't any dinosaurs except at the Sinclair station. He took it to the local small town repair shop and the mechanic looked at it and told us to go fill the tank, as full as we could get it with gas and bring it back right away. He put it up on the hoist and braised the leaker with a full tank of gas. Liquid gas will boil but will not combust. Brazed patch held.We watched from the other side of the street.Sometimes I miss the old days, sometimes not so much.
Reply:How do you know when it's full of argon?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:I don't care who states what or who thinks this is not a problem..YES IT IS!!!!If it had gas in it at ANY time leave it alone.I WILL NOT TOUCH THEM..NOT EVEN AT GUNPOINT!!!!!Years back my cousin Mike and 6 of my friends all suffered MAJOR burns and on top of that burned a plastics factory to the ground by trying to torch cut a gas tank that was outside FULL OF WATER for over a year..The tank exploded and a ball of fire took over the factory.Play with it at your own risk but MAKE SURE nobody else is anywhere near you when you attempt this.You have been warned....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:After washing with detergent, throw a chunk of dry ice from the grocery store in it. The carbon dioxide should take care of other hazards. Others have ran exhaust from a car into it. I guess it depends on how long you expect to work on it.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI don't care who states what or who thinks this is not a problem..YES IT IS!!!!If it had gas in it at ANY time leave it alone.I WILL NOT TOUCH THEM..NOT EVEN AT GUNPOINT!!!!!Years back my cousin Mike and 6 of my friends all suffered MAJOR burns and on top of that burned a plastics factory to the ground by trying to torch cut a gas tank that was outside FULL OF WATER for over a year..The tank exploded and a ball of fire took over the factory.Play with it at your own risk but MAKE SURE nobody else is anywhere near you when you attempt this.You have been warned....zap!
Reply:First drill a hole with a hand drill too drain any combustable liquid. Next make a slightly bigger hole where you can fill it up to the brim with water let it sit for a day. Drain. Next get a vehicle run a hose to the inside of the tank start the car let it run for around an hour the carbon monoxide will negate any fumes left in the tank. I did this while making a smoker out of propane tanks.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterI don't care who states what or who thinks this is not a problem..YES IT IS!!!!If it had gas in it at ANY time leave it alone.I WILL NOT TOUCH THEM..NOT EVEN AT GUNPOINT!!!!!Years back my cousin Mike and 6 of my friends all suffered MAJOR burns and on top of that burned a plastics factory to the ground by trying to torch cut a gas tank that was outside FULL OF WATER for over a year..The tank exploded and a ball of fire took over the factory.Play with it at your own risk but MAKE SURE nobody else is anywhere near you when you attempt this.You have been warned....zap!
Reply:Double Post. Deleted.Last edited by gnm109; 08-29-2013 at 08:27 PM.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Not worth a few bucks.,,,Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:welder's famous last words when starting to weld a gas tank: "Here, hold my beer and watch this".    Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Alright well I plasma cut the pieces I need cut out. I've attached the picture of what it looks like and my set up. You can see there are 2 large openings for the pumps to attach to, about 2" diameter. So I took my shop-vac, duct taped the hose in one of the holes, and closed up all the other holes. It worked really well, the walls starting popping in. I cut a 1" hole in one of the sections I was going to be cutting out, on the opposite side of the vac so the air flow would hopefully suck in any fumes. I even tested it out by taking a MAPP torch to the hole and it sucked in the flame and put out my torch! I cut it no problem. Now I'll pressure wash it and weld it. I'm honestly not worried about this thing exploding. However it was DIESEL fuel that used to be in there. Does that make a big difference? Attached ImagesJohn 3:16(2) Miller Pheonix 456(2) Millermertic 252Dynasty 210DXHobart 210MVPDoringer D350 SA Cold SawScotchman 350LT Cold SawWebb 10x50 MillWebb 15x40 LatheGeka Bendicrop Ironworker
Reply:Vacuum cleaner SUCKING IN the fumes.There was a guy in a neighboring county about 10 or so years ago who thought it was a good idea to use his "shop vac" to suck up the mess in the bottom of his boat that was the result of an overturned gas can.Yep, as soon as he dipped the vac wand into the gasoline, WHOOM!Don'tcha know he found out that electric motors make sparks when they run.He barely survived with 2nd and 3rd degree burns.His boat, truck and house were not so lucky.
Reply:However it was DIESEL fuel that used to be in there. Does that make a big difference?
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleHow do you know when it's full of argon?
Reply:I would never ever weld or cut a gas tank that has been used.  My grandfather told me about a neighbor that had a leaky gas tank on his tractor, so he drained it , let it dry, and filled it with water.  He started welding it, and it blew.  He picked himself up, hurt like hell, and took off his shirt to find "Farmall" in reverse across his chest.  The tank was ripped open like a tomato with a firecracker inside.Hemi-T"Ignorance can be fixed, but stupid is forever."Hobart BetaMig 2510Everlast PowerPro 256 TigMiller Radiator-1 Tig cooler
Reply:Idk about that, if it's not sealed it should not "blow up".  I have no experience with this personally, but common sense, to me, calls B.S; sorry no offense to anyone...seabee78
Reply:Originally Posted by seabee78Idk about that, if it's not sealed it should not "blow up".  I have no experience with this personally, but common sense, to me, calls B.S; sorry no offense to anyone...seabee78
Reply:Originally Posted by seabee78Idk about that, if it's not sealed it should not "blow up".  I have no experience with this personally, but common sense, to me, calls B.S; sorry no offense to anyone...seabee78
Reply:Originally Posted by dbotosIn an explosion, the pressure builds so fast that the relatively small cross sectional area of any filler, drain, or other port holes (compared to the overall internal surface area of the vessel) is not enough to dissipate all that pressure (i.e. the rate of pressure rise exceeds the rate at which it can dissipate out through the holes).  If the pressure rise is large enough, the vessel will fail (blow up).
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109.... Here's a story about a poor welder who was killed when welding near a 10,000 gallon fuel tank. I don't care what anyone says, it's too dangerous. This was a fuel oil tank. It happened on August 19, just ten days ago. http://www.sacbee.com/2013/08/19/566...ond-to-pa.html
Reply:I don't see how a tank can explode while filled with water. Unless there are air pockets which means it isn't "filled with water".If a tank had corrugations or other embossing: Attached Images
Reply:Since when does anyone cut/weld a tank full of water?Fill it up..Dump it out..Fill it up...Dump it out...Fill it up...Dump it out...Fill it up...Slosh it around...Dump it out...Still goes BOOM in the end....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:http://www.npchse.net/standards/pdf/guide/api2009.pdf"There is potential for continued release of hydrocarbon vapors from sludge or pockets in corroded metal.  This reinforces the importance of continued monitoring and ventilation after purging."  (pdf pg 17)That would be my biggest worry - if your cutting or welding process gets an area hot, that heat aids in the release of vapors, and then the heat ignites those vapors...Last edited by dbotos; 08-30-2013 at 01:42 PM.
Reply:Even using gas to light a brush pile (UNSEALED) has the WOOOOF effect, and you can feel the pressure waves! Gives me the tightanus syndrome! Please exercise caution, COMMON SENSE, and CLEAR judgement when it comes to combustables! Think of just what little spark a spark plug needs to ignite gasoline.Last edited by Softwireman78; 08-30-2013 at 02:26 PM.Late to bed, and early to rise. Fish like hell so I don't have to make up lies. Syncrowave 200MM211 & Spoolmate 100
Reply:Deleted double post. I wondered how it was possible. Now I know. Last edited by Softwireman78; 08-30-2013 at 02:26 PM.Late to bed, and early to rise. Fish like hell so I don't have to make up lies. Syncrowave 200MM211 & Spoolmate 100
Reply:Source:http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/...istopher.shtmlAutoignition Temperature, °F495530 KIgnition Temperature. Taftan Data. 1998."Each fuel should be brought above its Ignition Temperature for starting the combustion process. An appropriate air-fuel ratio is also necessary. The minimum ignition temperature at atmospheric pressure for some substances are: carbon 400 C, gasoline 260 C, hydrogen 580 C, carbon monoxide 610 C, methane 630 C."533 KIgnition temperature is the minimum temperature at which a material will burn or explode. It is the temperature at which a mixture of flammable vapor and air would ignite without a spark or flame. The term ignition temperature is also used to describe the temperature of a hot surface that would cause flammable vapors to ignite. Gasoline is the most common flammable liquid and the main cause of injuries among teenage boys. The ignition temperature of gasoline ranges from 530 and 553 K.There is no direct correlation between explosive properties and ignition temperature. Therefore, materials can have the same physical properties and similar explosive properties while having ignition temperatures that vary greatly. The ignition temperature is affected by the chemical properties of the flammable liquid. When a flammable liquid is in its liquid state, it will not ignite. It will only burn when in its gaseous state.In addition to ignition temperature, other properties associated with the flammability of a liquid are its flash point, flammable range, and vapor density. The flash point is the temperature at which a flammable liquid vaporizes and is therefore able to ignite. Liquids with a flash point under 40 °C are considered combustible liquids. Gasoline has a flash point of about -45 °C. The flammable range of a liquid is the ratio of the flammable liquid to air that would create a volatile mixture. The flammability range of gasoline is between 1.4 and 7.6%. If the ratio of gasoline to air is less than 1.4%, then the mixture is to thin to burn. The mixture cannot burn when it contains more than 7.6% gasoline because it is too rich to burn.The vapor density is the weight of a vapor relative to the weight of air. The vapor density of gasoline is heavier than air and therefore will sink when in air.Shani Christopher -- 2003External links to this page:Last edited by Softwireman78; 08-30-2013 at 02:37 PM.Late to bed, and early to rise. Fish like hell so I don't have to make up lies. Syncrowave 200MM211 & Spoolmate 100
Reply:. . .buddy had a leak in the gas tank. . .the mechanic looked at it and told us to go fill the tank, as full as we could get it with gas and bring it back right away. He put it up on the hoist and braised the leaker with a full tank of gas. Liquid gas will boil but will not combust. Brazed patch held.We watched from the other side of the street.
Reply:I will be cutting, shortening, and welding a neck on a 71 chevy truck gas tank soon. I plan to fill it with water.
Reply:Welding fuel tanks is not a good idea. You may get away with it 80% of the time but the remainder is left strictly to chance. Although I'm not a professional welder, if I were, I would never knowingly do any process that would put myself in danger of imminent death or serious injury. I repeat, I agree with Mr Zapster on this issue. I've seen what happens.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Sounds kind of like a Russian roulette situation.  You might hit something that would release vapor, you might not.  Would be hard to guarantee 100% that every last trace is gone...
Reply:He don't even care what anybody has to say. He cut it out already. He asked a question with no regard to what people with good intention had to say. So anyway bro, good luck, god bless and wear a helmet.   I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTI will be cutting, shortening, and welding a neck on a 71 chevy truck gas tank soon. I plan to fill it with water.
Reply:I have license in four states to repair underground storage tanks. People who know nothing about the work should keep their opinions to them selves. Their are a lot of dangerous jobs out there.  You train yourself on how to do the work. There are many methods to purge a tank and they all work. Try to rent a Lower Explosive Limit or gas indicator meter to check the LEL. If you don't know what LEL means train yourself. LEL should be below 8% or less. You all are welders so you should be able to fix anything but a broken heart and train yourselves to do the work safely. How in the hell would all those movie stunts be done and done well if somebody didn't figure how to do dangerous work safely. You people who are Can' Understand Normal Thinking stand off to the side and allow a man do his work.
Reply:Originally Posted by Cat220I have license in four states to repair underground storage tanks. People who know nothing about the work should keep their opinions to them selves. Their are a lot of dangerous jobs out there.  You train yourself on how to do the work. There are many methods to purge a tank and they all work. Try to rent a Lower Explosive Limit or gas indicator meter to check the LEL. If you don't know what LEL means train yourself. LEL should be below 8% or less. You all are welders so you should be able to fix anything but a broken heart and train yourselves to do the work safely. How in the hell would all those movie stunts be done and done well if somebody didn't figure how to do dangerous work safely. You people who are Can' Understand Normal Thinking stand off to the side and allow a man do his work.
Reply:Go weldermike....I'm with you man.  Some people should keep there opinions to themselves....ha ha ha.   A license in four states and can't give the OP any advice...way to go...seabee78
Reply:A license won't save you when something blows up. I've seen what mother nature can do when Lady Luck leaves the building. Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:The problem is...of course there are hazards.. Welding itself is hazardous. The post is asking for reasonable advice. The last time I welded on a 300 gallon propane tank I stood back and threw a highway flare into the hole. Stupid as hell, but it was a fun afternoon when it reached the perfect blue flame. A perfect jet flame flew out the back for an adrenaline soaked 30 seconds. It was so much fun, we filled it back up with a little propane and tried to get the perfect mixture again. This time with a video camera and a welder riding it. It never reached the perfect mix again. Mostly yellow flame. It was stupid, but its all about making memories. If you make the front page with your incident then it counts.  Back to being a GUY in the real world.  OSHA and I don't always see eye to eye. Can't wait for the responses.....
Reply:The problem is...of course there are hazards.. Welding itself is hazardous. The post is asking for reasonable advice. The last time I welded on a 300 gallon propane tank I stood back and threw a highway flare into the hole. Stupid as hell, but it was a fun afternoon when it reached the perfect blue flame. A perfect jet flame flew out the back for an adrenaline soaked 30 seconds. It was so much fun, we filled it back up with a little propane and tried to get the perfect mixture again. This time with a video camera and a welder riding it. It never reached the perfect mix again. Mostly yellow flame. It was stupid, but its all about making memories. If you make the front page with your incident then it counts.  Back to being a GUY in the real world.  OSHA and I don't always see eye to eye. Can't wait for the responses.....
Reply:Originally Posted by JD955SCIf you blow yerself up can I have your tools and welding stuff?
Reply:The only welding that I will do to a fuel tank is J B Weld. I would never attempt to repair any fuel tank using any type of arc or thermal welding process.If the tank is rusted inside and there are small pin hole type leaks I've had great success using a tank cleaning and lining kit offered by KBS Coatings.  http://www.kbs-coatings.com/      It is a 3 step process that removes the inside rust, stops further rusting, and coats the inside of the tank with an epoxy hard type of coating. This coating will seal pin holes and seam leaks in the tank permanently. There are other similar kits available, but this is the one that I used. A friend recommended it to me, saying that he has repaired 6 gas tanks over the past 10 years and none have developed any new leaks or internal rust. I have only used the kit once, but I am totally satisfied with it and will use it again the next time I'm faced with a rusted and leaking tank that can't easily be replaced.CharleyMiller MM252Miller Bobcat 225NTMiller DialArc HF / DIY Cooler2 Victor O/A TorchsetsMilwaukee 8" Metal SawMilwaukee Dry Cut "Chop" Saw 5 Ton Wallace Gantry Various Grinders, Benders, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTThere is quite the line waiting for my tools but there may be something left over for you. I would make a video of the operation but I don't have any fancy video editing stuff to put together different clips. Pictures will just have to do.
Reply:Originally Posted by Cat220I have license in four states to repair underground storage tanks. People who know nothing about the work should keep their opinions to them selves. Their are a lot of dangerous jobs out there.  You train yourself on how to do the work. There are many methods to purge a tank and they all work. Try to rent a Lower Explosive Limit or gas indicator meter to check the LEL. If you don't know what LEL means train yourself. LEL should be below 8% or less. You all are welders so you should be able to fix anything but a broken heart and train yourselves to do the work safely. How in the hell would all those movie stunts be done and done well if somebody didn't figure how to do dangerous work safely. You people who are Can' Understand Normal Thinking stand off to the side and allow a man do his work.
Reply:Originally Posted by Cat220I have license in four states to repair underground storage tanks. People who know nothing about the work should keep their opinions to them selves. Their are a lot of dangerous jobs out there.  You train yourself on how to do the work. There are many methods to purge a tank and they all work. Try to rent a Lower Explosive Limit or gas indicator meter to check the LEL. If you don't know what LEL means train yourself. LEL should be below 8% or less. You all are welders so you should be able to fix anything but a broken heart and train yourselves to do the work safely. How in the hell would all those movie stunts be done and done well if somebody didn't figure how to do dangerous work safely. You people who are Can' Understand Normal Thinking stand off to the side and allow a man do his work.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonLower explosive limit. Is that my road rage factor?
Reply:Originally Posted by 59halfstepHey call Lanse over........He will film anything.  Click Click $$$$$$