Trailer Rehab

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Pulled the "new" trailer into the "shop" yesteday just ahead of the rain.Gonna be some welding on this one.  Main frame, winch system, foldable tailgate, and first off...............A SET OF JACKSTANDS TO HOLD THE STUPID THING UPMore later "Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Are the dolly legs not working? It looks like it still has a little bow left in it so there is some life left in the old gal."Liberalism is a mental disorder" Dr. Savage
Reply:I wanna pick up 1 or 2 of those to haul grain in, the elevator i go to has a dumper so you can just use a cheap flatbed trailer with sides.
Reply:Awe man, I just picked up a set of really nice used legs for $100.00. They're either Jost or Holland. Too bad you're not closer, I don't even need them."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:A wrecking yard about 30 miles south of me sells complete landing gear assemblies for around $100. This includes the mounting plates, cross gussets, basically everything. They sell storage trailers and cut them out from under those. You pick the set you want for $100 the last I knew.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:Finally got a chance to update this thingThe jackstands are moving along nicely.  They will have a range of 28">48".  The base is 22" x 22".  And they are HEAVYThe tubing for the pylons is 4" 3/16 structural tubing.Because I can't readily come up with a source of extruded tubing for a perfect telescoping fit (tubing inside of tubing), I have designed the pylon using collars "inside" the tubing.  The collars are made with 3 1/8" ID.  This is to allow 3" tubing to slide easily inside the 4" tubingThere are two collars.  The lower collar is welded in place.The second section of tubing is jigged, and welded in place.Then the final collar is welded on.  These collars have to align almost perfectly in order for the tubing to slide easily, and slide in a straight lineFinally the pylon is tacked to the base, gussets are tacked on, and it's ready for finish welding.I should be able to knock out the sliding inner piece tomorrow....maybe"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:dang sam your making that landing gear look like it weighs a ton i bet it will out last the trailerLincoln Power Arc 4000 Thermal Arc Fabricator 252 iThermal arc 186Thermal Arc 26 tigTweeko 200 amp spool gunHobart AirForce 400WP-17V-12R
Reply:Good for unimproved surfaces! City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Nice cutting table for the chop saw. Anyone whose had a trailer sink will appreciate those large padsMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:farmersamm I thout about using old landing gear to build jackstands Just the square tubing part.
Reply:Originally Posted by Old Dougfarmersamm I thout about using old landing gear to build jackstands Just the square tubing part.
Reply:Yesterday I was able to complete the sliding telescoping pieces.To accomodate various height adjustments, holes had to be made every 2".My longest annular cutters are 2" long, and can't fully cut through a 3" piece of tubing.  So I had to cut the holes from opposite sides.To index the tubing I scribed a line every 2".  A scribe line won't wash off when coolant hits it.  And a scribed line is most accurate when indexing the piece on the milling table.On the side to be drilled/cut I made a single centering mark corresponding to one of the scribed marks to set the cutter and milling table.  This is a one time setup for all the holes, so it can be done in pencil.  I'ts strictly for centering the cutter.Next I scribed a line on the milling vise.  This index allows me to line up the scribed marks on the tubing for repetitive cuts.    Then the holes are cut on one side, then the piece is flipped over to cut the other holes on the reverse side.  This is the beauty of the scribe marks.  The assure the holes will be absolutely square with each other.The jackstands are almost complete.  I have to attach the saddles, add some handles, and attach some centering ears for the pins.  Then it's under the trailer.The full working height is 48".  This should allow me to use the stands for just about all the equipment on the farm. Dunno why everyone thought these were landing gear, I said they were to be jackstands  Jackstands on steroids"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Jacks in service today.Now it remains to be seen whether I can get the wheels off  It took 20 minutes just to pry the spacer off the hub.  Inside rim is rusted to the spokesCage the spring brakes, back off the adjusters so the wheel will rotate, and beat the bejesus out of the back side of the wheel while rotating it. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Wheels off.  Now I am able to get to the welding project.The pins for the sliding tandem engage holes in the trailer frame.  This keeps the tandem in place.  A good thingA strip of steel, with holes in it, is welded to the outside of the frame where the pins protrude.  This strip is a wear/reinforcement feature.  The web of  the frame beam is only 3/16" thick, and would quickly wallow out where the pins latch without this strip.You can thank salt, and magnesium chloride, for the damage.  This trailer spent the better part of its life in the St. Louis area.This is the replacement job next on the list.  Weather permiting, rain due tonight. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Very nice stands. That is like the trailer I rebuilt were do you stop on rust repair.
Reply:you get all the fun jobs.  bad-*** jack stands,samm.
Reply:I missed this project Samm.  Awesome job on the stands. A little tight getting that rig up the drive and around to the "shop"?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Yeah Duane, it's tight  Kelly yells at me when I come close to taking out the gateToday it was demo time.  Lottsa fun.The metal was slotted next to the welds (it's a PITA to cut welds off, easier to cut the metal).  Then an air chisel was used to pop the loosened pieces off.Next the welds were removed using a scarfing tip.  TRY THAT WITH PLASMA!!Now it's ready for making up some new strips, and welding them on. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammNext the welds were removed using a scarfing tip.  TRY THAT WITH PLASMA!!
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammNext the welds were removed using a scarfing tip.  TRY THAT WITH PLASMA!!
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammNext the welds were removed using a scarfing tip.  TRY THAT WITH PLASMA!!
Reply:I looked at the thread, but I'm not sure what I'm seeing.  It looks like gouging, not scarfingScarfing is a different process.  It involves removing material from the surface of the metal (ie. a weld)  http://metals.about.com/library/bldef-Scarfing.htmI don't know all that much about plasma cutters, but I've never seen a scarfing attachment for the torch.  I would assume it allows about the same sort of action as an O/A scarfing tip.  Removing metal from a surface on the horizontal plane without gouging into the surface of the metal.  The idea being......not to ruin the parent metal while cutting imperfections from the metal in a flush manner.  I'd like to see one."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I suppose you could cut out a pocket on a horizontal plane with a scarfing tip if you wanted, it would depend on what you're aiming to remove I guess"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Most times I can take out a weld without touching either piece of steel.  That's what I save half used up tips for.  I just did a bucket cutting edge last week and I kept thinking I needed to take pics, but it was a rush job...My name's not Jim....
Reply:Samm, on the tooth holders, I first gouged enough  to knock them off with a BFH, while leaving some metal above the plane  of the mounting surface. ( The flat area with the holes for the indexing pins. )  Next, in the second pic, I scarfed the remaining metal that is proud of that flat surface, from the inside out. With a gouging tip and nozzle on the P-max 1250, the plasma arc will kind of bend and wash the extra metal off with a high degree of controllability, while not getting into the pad below. Scarfing for sure. The third pic is after a very small amount of grinding.  I'm not saying it is the end all of ways to do it, but it sure worked well for me. I don't know the tradeoff in gas cost vs. consumables, and gouging is harder on them ( lots of starts ), but I'm guessing it is cheaper to run the plasma. Of course you have the price of admission!Just re-read your post, and I should add that I was not using a scarfing tip, I don't even know if they offer one, but I just light the arc, and lay the torch over quickly so it glances off the surface while staying lit. It works more easily if you have an edge to get started on. ( just like oxy-fuel )Last edited by daddy; 12-05-2011 at 12:52 PM.Reason: clarityI'm surprised no one mentioned an arc air cutter. They make it REALLY easy to remove old welds. They aren't that expensive either IF you already have a big enough compressor to keep it going.
Reply:Someone here with a good camcorder has to make a close up video of scarfing with an OA.  I've found videos but nothing that shows the work up close --Wintermute"No man's knowledge here can go beyond his experience." - John Lockewww.improvised-engineering.comManufacturer Agnostic:Blood----------Sweat---------Tears----|------------------|----------------|----Lincoln Red, Miller Blue, Esab Yellow
Reply:While waiting for the reinforcement strips to be cut (I farmed it out to a shop which has CNC plasma capability), I am rebuilding the brake system.This trailer was poorly maintained, and apparently shoes were replaced without attention to brake actuating stuff.  Like camshaft bushings, clevis pins, spring brake pods, and slack adjusters.  It's a total mess  This could wind up costing around $200 or more per axle end.  A stinkin' grand just in the brakesClevis pins had rusted so severely that they had to be sweated out of the brake spider (the thingy that all the brake cams, shoes, etc. attach to).  The casting was heated dull orange in the area around the pins, let to cool until an audible ticking was heard (this lets you know that the rust bond has been broken by heating/cooling) then the pins were driven out with a 12lb sledge.  Sadly, the pins AND bushings came out as a unit, so now it's new bushings too.For those who think heating crucial castings is a , you have to consider that the assembly is unworkable due to the stuck parts.  It can't get any "broker".  There's simply no other way to make the thing work.  And it is a widely accepted common practice. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Snapped these just now before I head out to exchange these for new shoes.This is a classic case of rust jacking.  Rust forms around the rivet holes in the brake shoe, the rust then "jacks" the lining off the shoe, and shatters it over time.  Also, the jacked lining allows road crud to build between the shoe and lining, further exacerbating the problem.The swollen broken shoe then makes contact constantly with the drum.  It overheats, and you see the heat crazing in the lining.  The drums also show signs of heat checking, but won't be replaced at this time. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Great thread, work and pictures, I look forward to the rest of it.  Thanks for sharing
Reply:Heat and beat works just fine. I've also had to cut them out with a torchMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:i would say even if you could have gotten those pins outta the bushings they would have been NFG.   If i was you i would go ahead and have those drums turned.   that way when you get it all back together it will be just as new.your going to keep it for a while and your already wrist deep in there.good news is its old enough i don't think you have to worry about putting auto slacks back on there.   And personally i like manual slack adjusters better on infrequently used trailers.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Thought someone might be interested in another way to handle bushings.  The ones that are stuck, and you have to remove them.This is part of the project, so I thought I'd inflict it on ya The camshaft bushings need replacing, and I'm not going to spend the coin to buy bushing drivers to remove the bushings.  Like they'd work anywaysThe offending bushing is split using a hacksawOnce the cut is made, the bushing is collapsed, and driven outAnd despite the hollering and whooping, the bore is minimally damaged by the saw kerf.  You got to remember that a small imperfection in the bore doesn't ruin the ability of the bore to fully support a bushing/bearing.  Once the bushing is driven out, you can barely see the saw kerf"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I've split bushings Many times both with a saw and a torch. Most times you do less damage than trying to force it outMillermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:I prefer the weld and shrink option on most bushings even brass. Doesn't matter if the weld sticks you're just heating it up. In fact TIG is the best way to do the heating but I usually don't take the time to hook up my torch to do it.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:i gotta second the weld and shrink option.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:I have the habit of grabbing the OA torch to cut bushings and stuck bearings,  Started doing it that way 40 years ago. Just too old to listen to common sense.
Reply:Sawzall instead of hacksaw and go to the heavy part of the casting instead of the thinner loop.Millermatic 200Hobart Handler 120Victor O/A & Ramco BandsawLincoln 225 ACSnapOn AD HoodMiller XMT304/22AHypertherm Powermax 1650 G3Lincoln Idealarc DC600 w/Extreme 12 VSMiller Digital Elite "Joker"
Reply:x3 on weld and shrink. The first time someone showed me how it worked, I thought he was a genius. It was a press fit bearing race, and it just fell out.
Reply:Here's the dealFinally had time to install the reinforcement strip.Cleaned it up, and sprayed it with a cold galvanizing compound.Had to bevel the bottom edges where the beam flange interfered with a good angle for the gun.  This allowed me to pretty much weld straight into the joint.First pass was hung in against the bevel.The second pass filled the bevels.Now I have a working lock pin thingie."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:BUT HOLD THE PHONEWhile using a large impact to tighten a u bolt, the side of the pivoting arm fell out of the suspensionTried to patch the hole, and the welder just blew thru, it's that rotten.So now I'm looking at a new suspension  A new Hutchens SPRING SUSPENSION, ENOUGH OF THIS AIR RIDE CRAPMore to come..............................................  ......."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Man!  I know how I'm gonna build my next set of jackstands.  I think I might leave the steroids out, though.  Nice work.Contrary to popular opinion, I do NOT have a pet turkey that craps molten steel.  It's a goose.
Reply:Went to Tulsa and picked up the goodies last night.The Hutchens 9600 spring suspension.  "Suspension In A Box"The fun starts in the morning Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:WOWI'm glad it's you and not meBe real nice when finished thoughBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:You have the same luck I do. A little fix turns into a project, a project turns into a job. You do get all the fun ones though. One quick question. Is there going to be anything on this trailer that's square enough to square the new suspension or are you gonna square it off the king pin?"Liberalism is a mental disorder" Dr. Savage
Reply:Luckily there's a good instruction manual available online from the manufacturer to help you figure out the welding requirements, and the alignment questions.http://hutch-susp.com/sites/default/...9700_May06.pdfMeritor also has an excellent manual available online covering orientation, and welding procedures applicable to the axle.  Notice the warnings about welding other than in the neutral section of the centerline of the axle.  Preheat is also important when welding in cold outside temperatures.http://www.lufkin.com/trailers/docs/...itor_Axles.pdf"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Can't wait for the next post samm. Keep us updatedYa gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:The axles have been removed.The first order of business was leveling/squaring the trailer so that it can be worked on.  As I don't have a level slab to work on, I usually set two pieces of stock along the surface I want to make planar, then eyeball the difference between the two pieces.  If they match in orientation, the trailer is "level".  In this case, the trailer was out of plane by about 7/8", and the appropriate shims were added between the jackstand and trailer frame.Another job for O/A.  About the best tool for fast efficient demolition, and at a relatively low cost.  This took about 200cf Oxygen, and maybe 1/3 tank of Acetylene.  Total cost around 30 bucks.Once removed, the axles were rolled forward, and the next job is removing the slider assembly.  Cut it, then lower it with the come alongs. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I used a lot of Hutchens parts converting 2 axel City and East dump trailers to 3 axel set ups. The suspensions ended up being a combination of Hutchens and Neway that worked out good.
Reply:The slider is out, and the tanks have been salvaged.Hanger intstallation starts today.Being as I don't have a level slab, and the kingpin is not in a good position to use as a measuring point, I'm going to have to assume the trailer frame is relatively square in relation to the kingpin when marking the position for the hangers.  Any arbitrary line, and cross measuring, will assure that the hangers are at least square with the frame as it sits. Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/