Cargo Strap Winches

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More modified strap winchesIf you're behind this, you really REALLY want to know it's not going to wind up in your lapThe idea is to strap the bales which are on the floor as securely as possible so that they don't move under the weight of the bales above.I needed a winch which would operate at any angle needed to accomplish the jobJust to be sure, the bolt/pin was added as a safety measure should the strap become loose.  The pawl is prevented from releasing when the nut is in place, and is free to move with the nut removed"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:It does the job, but there's a glitchThe tension on the strap is insufficient to straighten out the angle(this was a real surprise considering the amount of force exerted on the strap), and the strap tends to bunch to one side of the winch drum.The thing will have to be modified to provide for pinning the moveable portion at different angles.  Little tweaking is in order I guess"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Another problem with strap winches is the wheels on the truck and trailer.There isn't enough room for an under-rail winch in these areas withoug risking damage to the tires from catching the winch.So, the alternative is to mount the winch above the rail on top of the trailer floor.Using a standard winch, the pawl is removed, and relocated to the other side of the gear wheel.First an extension is welded to the "bottom" of the winch (which will be the top when done)A new pawl pin is welded to the extension, and a washer is attached to hold the pawl.The pin is welded on the backside, then the area smoothed out so the strap won't hang upThe standard winch is then welded to tubing set up to fit in the stake pockets.  This unit can be used anywhere there's a stake pocketAs with clamps, you can't have enough straps, winches, chains, and boomers"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:The swivel point looks a bit small to drill and put pins in.Maybe a rod on a swivel on the underside of the winch (like the first photo with the wrench) would work.Little 1/2" square bars could be welded to the bed frame of the trailer to allow the rod to be stopped at different angles - thus different angles for the winch. Or the other way around - rod on a swivel mounted to the frame and notches or bars on the bottom frame of the winch for setting the angle.It wouldn't have to be very heavy duty - just enough to hold the winch in position for tightening.Just thinking.Last edited by GWD; 02-10-2012 at 10:07 AM.
Reply:I've tried about everything hauling big bails too.  I ended up just buying a couple of the 4" ratchets with hooks (basically the same type you get with the 2" straps, but BIG).  I use those on the ends that you're showing.  Im also very anal about securing whatever load I'm hauling.  I cringe when I see non-strapped, or inadequately strapped loads of hay.....
Reply:Ok, I'm not following you on the last post.  I understand the clearance issue with the tires, and why you made the winch 'top mount'.  but why move the pawl??  whats that gain??
Reply:i wish there were more of you guys out on the highways. here in ks where im at , you wouldnt want to see the loads of hay strapped down, or lack there of. heck theres got be at least 30-40 semi loads of hay a day headed towards Texas. thats all i see, when im in town. probably double that throut the day. half of which usually dont have straps at all >MM 251MM 135Lincoln Pro cut 55Bobcat 250Miller Thunderbolt ac/dcolder ac forneyJackson nexgen 3n13-Smith OP setups97 Dodge dieselMakita chopsawJet swivel head bandsawlincoln tig 300/30030a spoolgunpuma port. gas air comp.
Reply:Sambo,Not complaining mind you, but how about a few pictures of Kelley every once in a great while?Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by bottlefed89Ok, I'm not following you on the last post.  I understand the clearance issue with the tires, and why you made the winch 'top mount'.  but why move the pawl??  whats that gain??
Reply:I have collected several straps and winches over the years but their are not a lot of ways to us them. I may build something like this.I wish I had more steak pockets. It allways looks safer to put winches, chain binders on right side of trailer to me . I would rather not swing a winch bar or cheter pipe into passing trafic but thier must be a resune for it because most guys put them on left side,
Reply:Nice. I heard the other day they lifted the 80,000lbs gross limit if you was hauling hay from the midwest to Texas, but like I said I heard of this and do not have any confirmation.We are on our way to being farmers! Our site is always under construction so check back often for updates.  http://www.philosophyfarmstyle.com/
Reply:Granted, I havent moved hay before on a flatbed, but I have tied down a ton of different equipment and awkward loads on a flatbed/low bed.  This may be a stupid concept/question:I think I would feel the safest as both a driver and a nearby motorist if I saw two straps (on for each roll) running from the headache rack to the tail of the trailer over the load.  I always like to pull at 90* if at all possible.  Is that a possibility or just too much of a pain the $ss?  Granted, you would need a 60 ft "ish" strap, but then you just mount two removeable winches to the rear of the trailer and attachments on the headache rack.  Make the winches removeable in case you need to back up to a dock, or require a "push truck" Anyways... my limited thoughts, take them as you will.  Great job on the trailer!
Reply:Probably the biggest advantage of moving the pawl, is the fact that if you didn't move it you would have to physically engage it each time when tightening a load. Which is a pain to do when you're hanging off the end of a 4' cheater bar. By moving it, to the top, gravity engages it for you
Reply:We put back stops on that pin in the stakes on the back to keep back bales on. I have also seen guys run big ropes front to back and tension them with a come along.Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Originally Posted by Old Doug It allways looks safer to put winches, chain binders on right side of trailer to me . I would rather not swing a winch bar or cheter pipe into passing trafic but thier must be a resune for it because most guys put them on left side,
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWThe way it has always been explained to me is that you put it on the drivers side so you can easily see if there is an issue if one gets loose or snaps. Also chances are the driver will check the straps/binders when he stops if he doesn't have to walk around the truck.
Reply:you put them on the left side due to the slope (center crown) of the road. if you put them on the right side and go around a corner that slopes hard to the right side of the road your load will shift. always tie to the crown of the road. hauling lumber i always used 3 straps over the top unit. 1 at each end of the unit pulling to the crown side with 1 in the center pulling to the right side to put a twist in the unit to lock it in place. try hauling waxed sub floor some time. no matter how you strap it it will slide all around on the trailer.225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:Just a thought I had, could the removable winch (second design without the pivot) be rotated 90 degrees?The cheater bar would have to be on the outside, and the pawl lock towards the hay, don't know how much the bales would interfere with that, but it shouldn't matter what angle the strap is set at as it would always be pulling as it was designed.
Reply:I have to pick up 10 lengths of 5/8" cold rolled   12 feet long.   No matter how I strap em on, the middle ones want to slide out.   Last time I wrapped  the strap around the bundle and pulled it tight.  Worked better.  The cold rolled is oiled so it does not rust.   Kinda like your waxed flooring.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I have mirrors on both sides of all my trucks. I can under stand about the crown in the road. when you tightin your winches or binders it pulls the load in that dierection.I haul scrap the best thing to do is load so it will ride without tieing it down then put on more straps chains than you think you need.If you spend alot of time hauling you will end up haveing to tightin down a load on the side of the road or load or un load in traffic not good at all.
Reply:Originally Posted by ToolBoxTavernNice. I heard the other day they lifted the 80,000lbs gross limit if you was hauling hay from the midwest to Texas, but like I said I heard of this and do not have any confirmation.
Reply:Just another wild idea....Chain link fencing  has the sides held by bars fed through the end coils. If you got a long section and strengthened it a bit if necessary(?) by running a number of 1/4" cables from side to side, also fed through the coils and anchored at beefed-upend bars,  then one end could be attached to the trailer tail and the other pulled over the load towards the front. Cables would probably be needed for the pulling, perhaps coming from a winch under the front bed....lots of possibilities/options. Unlike a strap, the semi-rigid fencing would exert its force over a larger area, one as wide as the fencing was "tall".If you could get strong netting, perhaps Kevlar, it would bend easier so would better wrap around the sides of the top bales...but would probably cost a fortune. The chain link fencing is cheap (or free?) and may be available in 10' or more heights to fit the load width. It would be a bit of a pain to work with,  both due to weight and the typical galvanizing being rather rough, but does collapse into a pile or narrow roll when in storage. I'd probably first try a couple of electric winches with steel cable, these mounted under the bed front, maybe using rollers or pulleys where the cable passed through holes in the bed or at its front, and going over the load to the rear of the trailer. A good winch holds quite a length of cable and has a pull of six or eight thousand pounds and holds much more.
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manHow much does hay weigh? Can you even get to 80,000 gross?
Reply:A big round bale can weigh from a littlie over 1000 pounds to well over 2000 pounds depending on how tight they are rolled up, You can make one so tight that a cow cant pull it out to eat on it. If they can they will eat center out.
Reply:We used to to strap all loads of hay over the top from front to back with a V board on the ends.   come along and 1" rope was all that held it on the truck and the trailer.   Then the FMCVSA came along with their particular flavor of securement regs now we have to throw straps across the center from left to right.Oddly enough now that we have to do that the amount of rollovers hauling hay has SKYROCKETED!   Now if they hay wants off in  big way it drags the trailer with it.     but we haul hay California style on doubles, 26' trailers with pull outs and square bales stacked.For sams particular problem i would be more inclined to weld some "rails" on the back of the trailer to cradle the last row of bales then put some D rings on top of those and strap the last rows in an X fashion.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.Not to pick on Samm too much but he purchased the WRONG style of winch - Those are High Profile to start with, and are made to slide in a channel mounted under the hauling bed of the trailer.  The PROPER winches to purchase are the ones that are welded or bolted to the side of the trailer and the pawls are in the correct location to engage by gravity while tensioning the straps.I just responded to a thread dealing with DOT and Regulations and every one of Samms custom modified winch assemblies will (or should) be failed and he should be parked,  I am NOT picking on Samm but those assemblies are manufactured to stringent standards and are not made to be fiddled with on a whim.There are MANY properly manufactured solutions to this problem without cobbling up something at the farm. http://www.kinedyne.com/products/87/...l#product-listThe above being said, I do appreciate the fact that Samm is trying everything he can think of to properly secure his load of bales.  A bit more research would have yielded him a better solution.Up here we use bale racks in combination with the strap winches to secure loads like these.Have a Good Night.Later,Jason
Reply:They are indeed the wrong style of winch.  They're for a track system as mentioned, and are the self storing model made to hold a full length of strap wound on the drum (an open invitation for thieves).  Five of these, and 8 new straps, were part of a "grab bag" I purchased from a dood in the parts store.  He had them in his van, and came in trying to sell them.  I got the whole shooting match for $100 cash.As far as correct/incorrect.  I have a buddy who is a really good truck mechanic.  He works for a local oil company.  Does work on tank trucks, gin pole trucks, pumps, etc.  He's really an artist at what he does.I had the "new" truck by their garage a few months back, and the poor guy almost crapped his drawers over the condition of one of my steering tires.  It had full legal tread, but has some really bad scalloped wear on the outside edge.  The bad front end (which I've since rebuilt) really chewed it up."You gotta get that off the truck!!!!"  "Not so fast" says yours truly.  It's one thing to have the best-of-the-best when you're working on someone elses dime.  It's quite another thing when you have to dig deep in your jeans for the perfect tire ($400).  I see this a lot with guys that work in a shop for someone else.  They don't have any clue as to what things cost.  It just magicly appears on the parts delivery truck.The same applies to this situation.  And the inability to look beyond what's for sale out there in the market.  Even though it may be "approved", it's not necessarily good.These are "approved" , and THEY DON'T WORK  The tab bends like a pretzel when some muscle is applied to the winch to tighten the strap.  I've used them in the past.  I like mine better (see other thread), and they actually work.These are "approved" also.  I haven't used these, and can't say one way or another.  They might just be fine.  But I have some extra winches I'd normally not use, so I like to put them to use.  Besides, I like the positive protection against uplift on mine.....they're solidly pinned with 3/4 cold roll pins.  I don't particularly like the lip on the factory built ones.We have the DOT  down here in the States, dunno if it compares to what's just North of the border, but I assume it's pretty much the same bunch of desk bound idiots who determine what's "safe".  Mostly a bunch of @@@holes who justify their jobs by passing idiotic regulations.  Case in point...........................http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety-secu...l-Drivers.aspxJust about any soul on the planet SNORES DOT is a cash register for the states.  The authorities see trucks as rolling banks.  Great source of revenue.........while they give tax breaks to the wealthySo I guess what I'm sayin' is..........I don't put much stock in prima donna mechanics who don't pay the freight, and I don't really have much respect for govt. officials who meddle in areas they know little about.Now as far as fabricators go............I see this all the time.  A robust build on an item, which fails to see the weak link.  You can build the BeJesus out of the winch, but it's still attached to the stake pocket  Not a lot of beef in the stake pocket.Fact remains that if you turn the truck over (this is one of the most unstable top heavy loads out there on the roads) it doesn't matter what kind of tie downs your using....there's gonna be hay all over the road.  Round bales are inherantly(sp?) dangerous.  They shift, they settle, and they sometimes come apart under the constant pounding and wind blowing.Most of the hay hauling accidents here in Oklahoma come from speeding, believe it or not.  It's hilly country, and most haulers haul @@# downhill in order to make it up the next hill.  Our secondary roads are pretty poor around here.  And a good deal of the hay hauling equipment is old outdated stuff.  We be poor folk.When I start making a killing on cattle, I'll buy the newest safest equipment on the road.  Until then, gotta get by I guess..........unless some of you care to donate to the effortLive cattle are at an all time high........but when you factor in the cost of production, the price is below what they sold for 5yrs ago.  Feed is 325+ per ton.  Hay, if you can find it, is 100+ per bale(average cow eats around 25-30lbs of hay per day).  The high price reflects a cattle shortage.  A lot of producers were forced to sell their herds due to the drought this year.  Most won't be able to come back in the Spring due to the high price of replacement cattle.  This is a long term permanent loss.http://pawneelivestocksales.com/"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I kinda like the stuff Samm welds up on the farm. A kick butt job on that trailer. How old is Sam anyway?  He seems to have a lot of energy.Miller Synchro250 bought new 1997Millermatic200Miller Bluestar 2E . AC/DC 16hpBluestar 2E , DC Miller Thunderbolt225 AC/DC ArcLongevity 60 plasma
Reply:Originally Posted by bistineausixteen ounces per pound, 32,000 ounces per ton.
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manHow much does hay weigh? Can you even get to 80,000 gross?
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammFact remains that if you turn the truck over (this is one of the most unstable top heavy loads out there on the roads) it doesn't matter what kind of tie downs your using....there's gonna be hay all over the road.  Round bales are inherantly(sp?) dangerous.  They shift, they settle, and they sometimes come apart under the constant pounding and wind blowing.Most of the hay hauling accidents here in Oklahoma come from speeding, believe it or not.  It's hilly country, and most haulers haul @@# downhill in order to make it up the next hill.  Our secondary roads are pretty poor around here.  And a good deal of the hay hauling equipment is old outdated stuff.  We be poor folk.
Reply:Originally Posted by ToolBoxTavernJust to give you an idea of hauling 80,000lbs and stopping it since the how much does hay weigh question has been answered. Imagine 20 pickups all connected together going down the road and the first two and the last two are the only ones with brakes. That is why people should stay away from big trucks and not hang out in the shady spot next to them. 18 wheels does not mean 18 brakes.
Reply:Originally Posted by RancherBillYou may be poor, but, you have to do it right. I followed your link to the DOT and found this.So the straps look good, but, they are not going to cut it with the cops.  I looks like you should do some sort of rear hay rack. If I get a chance tomorrow I'll post a pic of the rear rack of the guy down the road - he's a hay hauler.
Reply:A full load (34 bales) weighs 34,000lbs.  This is an older 45 foot trailer, and it can only hold this many bales.Newer, longer, trailers can hold as much as 42 of the same size bales.Actually these are light loads in comparison of what's legal to carry  (approx. 50.000lbs)You have to understand there's some leeway given to ag products, always has been.  It's a rough, low profit, business"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manWell, that's a stretch. There are ten sets of much heavier brakes on a semi.But I did listen to a crook county sheriff read one of my owner operators the riot act as he was collecting the fine I had to bring to him. We use 22' trailers which allow us to legally scale 72,000#'s. My guy was 76,000#'s I think. As soon as the moron sheriff, during his rant, stated "you over tax the brakes", is when I felt the need to jump in. I told him that "if his trailer was 18' longer, he would not be over weight and that a 40' trailer has the same amount and same size brakes as this trailer. And if you want to give him a speach go ahead, just make sure YOU know what you're talking about!" That really pissed me off. Him too, and almost got me arrested!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammA full load (34 bales) weighs 34,000lbs.  This is an older 45 foot trailer, and it can only hold this many bales.Newer, longer, trailers can hold as much as 42 of the same size bales.Actually these are light loads in comparison of what's legal to carry  (approx. 50.000lbs)You have to understand there's some leeway given to ag products, always has been.  It's a rough, low profit, business
Reply:for 100 years we usued to haul al stacked hay by diagram 1  with out the strap thrown over the side.      Never once had a single problem when done right..     hay was secured and tight, locked in and loaded.If a truck when over it dumped the load of hay on the shoulder, now if a load of hay goes over it takes the rest of the truck with it in a SECOND.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.