UA 41 and UA 21 Pipe welding tests

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I was just wondering if anyone has any experience with these tests. They are for the international pipe welders and fitters union, the UA. Both 6GUA 21 is a carbon steel 2" schedule 40 open root 6010 and 7018 fill. UA 41 is carbon steel 2" schedule 80 open root TIG root pass and fill. The welding rod on the UA 41 is 309 and the pipe is regular steel. Unless they are making a mistake I cant understand why they want me to weld carbon steel pipe with SS rod. Been a while since I took a pipe welding test. I have to practice.Last edited by Capozzoli; 01-05-2012 at 06:49 PM.
Reply:They use stainless rod to give a close facsimile of welding stainless pipe, in that the rod has more to do with how the weld runs than the base metal (I know that is a huge oversimplification) but you still get a similar feel, and have to go through all the steps of purging and what not.
Reply:Interesting. Why dont they just have the test in SS pipe? Have you taken the test? Thanks for the info.
Reply:I have taken the 2" sch 80 tig test with 309 filler on carbon steel pipe.( not for the UA ) The reason you take that test is to qualify you to weld on stainless and/or carbon with tig. Basically its two tests rolled into one
Reply:That makes sense. I use stainless rod on reg steel sometimes. Only cause I want pretty welds. I have 308 rods on hand. Think there is that much of a difference for practice purposes?
Reply:Even thin stainless is expensive, let alone Schedule 40.Testing on carbon makes sense.
Reply:Originally Posted by CapozzoliThat makes sense. I use stainless rod on reg steel sometimes. Only cause I want pretty welds. I have 308 rods on hand. Think there is that much of a difference for practice purposes?
Reply:Thanks guys. The Union has my resume now. They have to review it. I rushed it and I thnk there is a comma out of place and a capitol a where there shouldnt be one. Hope I didnt blow it. I have to practice for sure, Ill post my progress. Gonna turn some bevels on the lath next week.
Reply:I think the UA 21 is on 2" XXS, little thicker than SCH 160 pipe.
Reply:Yeah, you are right, I just looked again. Im good with thicker. Takes the heat better. Does anyone know if when you take this test do you have to fit up your own pieces and back purge yourself? Or is it already set up. Im just wondering cause I have to travel to take the test. Its the two welding tests and a written test. Im wondering how many days I have to stay there. Im sure they will tell me they just havent yet.
Reply:I have never back purged a 309 test on carbon steel nipples.......A young green pipe welder asked an old salt one day...How can I make the weld on the bottom of the pipe look like the top.......The old salt replied....Screw up the top......
Reply:Do the nipples sit on the outside of the hole? Maybe thats why it does not need to be back purged? The 309 rod pipe test is open root so I was just assuming that it would need to be back purged. Maybe it does not have to be? I would feel more confident with a back purge for sure. They said another week or so to let me know dates and details.
Reply:Every time I have taken the 309 to carbon test the test facility made me purge the pipe. I personally wouldn't do the test without back purging. The inspector told me he wants to see each welder demonstrate that they know the process to weld stainless. If your welding stainless back purge is required. I would assume you would purge your test as well. Always ask your test facility what the test entails so that you won't be suprised when you arrive. If you show up and demonstrate that you know what's already going on chances are the person performing the test won't mess with you too much. That's my 2¢
Reply:Thanks slim, makes a lot of sense. Im still waiting to hear back from them. Im retty sure they will schedule me based on my experience so I will bombard them with a host of questions regarding the test. Im hoping to get set up in the shop for practice this week. Things are a little busy with a few deadlines but I will be practicing at night. Its been a while since I have taken a pipe welding test (12 years?) so I may set up some open root plates to practice on in 3G and 4G  first just to get my hand ready. Gonna get some pipe and turn some bevels out on the lathe. Ill post some pics of my progress may be interesting. If the pipe welds look real bad, well, ill just accidentally leave my camera home that day.  Once I feel good about the welds Im gonna buck up and send the coupons to the NDT lab. They will send me the results and photos of the x-rays. Could be interesting stuff to post.Welding everything, from the crack of dawn to a broken heart.
Reply:I know in my local you have to fit the pipe which for carbon is to torch bevel, put a land on it, fit and tack than weld out. In all honesty our inspector is a total PITA and looks most guys out on their first rod on the root. Wont even let me finish the root, just says thanks for coming out.
Reply:That would suck cause I have to drive five hours and get a hotel room to take the test.They make you torch bevel free hand? sucks. Lots of grinding. Do I have to bring my own tools?  Why is he kicking out most guys, is it because the root isn't passing visual. That I can understand. It does suck with someone over your shoulder. From what I understand most welders that go and take this test fail I plan on practicing a LOT. Im also hooked up with a testing facility so my practice coupons are gonna be tested NDT. Im gonna be sure Im gonna pass before I go.Last edited by Capozzoli; 01-12-2012 at 12:33 AM.Welding everything, from the crack of dawn to a broken heart.
Reply:I just started on the UA 21 test last week. Very thick wall (sch 120) pipe. Doesn't take to bevel torch cutting...machine or hand.... because 1/2 way round its just too hot (at 2") and the blow out & slag just globs up the bevel.
Reply:I've practiced both of those tests on my own.6010/7018 was the tougher one. The root is a piece of cake but I have an issue getting the positioning right so I can weld 6 to 12 in one pass comfortably. I had such a problem propping on my pinky I ended up learning how to stick left handed for the "hard side". Just make sure you CHANGE your rod angle as you come up the sides. You have to move pretty fast, so do some dry runs, obviously, before you start. As for the tig on 2" it's even easier. Just takes longer. I used to practice 308 on carbon all the time, with bridge tacks and a 5/32 gap. Root with 3/32, fill and cap with 1/8 308. I'll tell you this, I've never had such a problem until I had to drip root a gap like that. I think it took me 3 weeks before I got it down the way I wanted it. I suggest a tight 1/8 gap and in line tacks and use a 1/8 rod somewhere between 85-100 amps. Weld it like you would carbon. Back purge, you want to simulate a complete stainless weld. I cut out a 2" circle from a plastic lens cover to tape over the top of the pipe so I can check on the root while it's taped up.If you're used to filling with single beads, for the heavier pipe, you will have to stack them. The cap I believe is going to be 3 beads. Maybe 4 if you've got a wide (more than 30 degree) bevel. Only other thing I have to say is, if you can handle it, turn the amps up to 130ish for the cap and go FAST. As long as you cleaned it up right, the SS will glide like metallic butter. I've seen too many people try to run a stainless cap on 100-115 and burn it to hell.