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After tonight I do not think I am as good at TIG as I thought I was. lol.... I ended up getting a anodized alum ladder that goes on a rental pontoon boat that needed to be fixed. I know the owner and told him ill give it a shot because it was pretty much me trying or him buying all new ladders. Well I asked my instructors what to do to get the best results and they gave me some intructions and said have at it. One instructor welded ano alum at miller when he was in school still, He told me best of luck it took me over 30 hours to get a good looking weld. so I started to weld "bumping" and WOW got through the ano and overheated the alum (looked like hell), Then I would not sit long enough and get alum filler boogers. it was a battle going back and forth and trying to get the machine set up (because they let me learn that kind of thing as you go, unless your a titty baby then they will help).Anyways I spent a total of 4 hours on ano alum today, got about 2 good looking "bumps" the rest of the weld looked terrible. I like tig'n alum and walking the cup on SS, but man O' man I was not having fun trying to get a good weld on that crap. I have a lot more practice coming on anodized alum thats for sure and I can see why people who weld tuna towers can make so much money. sorry for the long post with bad ingwiiish skillsRyan
Reply:I've thought of this idea myself.  I can't imagine welding through anodized surface to be a pleasant experience or easy at that.  Perhaps there is technique for this, you mention bumping as I have read about, but clearly theres more to it as you seem to struggled greatly.  It sounds like a horrible idea at first, but it's probably still going to be cheaper than buying new ladders.I imagine cleaning off the anodizing in the area you would weld and then have it re-anodized.  I believe that it wouldn't take a lot of anodizing to re-do the area as well.  Anodizing cost and time is really dependent on the anodizing surface area.  So if you removed a small area, it wouldn't cost a fortune to re-anodize, and even if all the pieces were being fully redone, I have to imagine it still being cheaper than entirely new ladders.Miller 330 a/bp water cooledI believe in gun control, I hold my gun with two hands.  If you want to know why, click here.Buy American or bye America.
Reply:ya I told him to just buy the same ones that he got in the first place as they are cheap ladders. it will cost more in time than it will be for new ladders. I just wanted to give it a try and see how hard it was. I tried to remove the ano and that seemed to be worse. from what i have read and what i was told it is best to just weld through the ano. It can be done that way so im going to take my time and learn it that way. thanks for the input pinjas.
Reply:weld over the anodizing like its not there. cover the weld with silver paint. if you suck at it you can print..or pattern the weld by bumping it on an almost parallel angle to the wld and off on off on it til its smooth and patterned nicei built alotta towers and fighting chairs/rails/ etc for boats and thats how thw nebies got into it..luckily for me i had natural talent and rose the ranks fast
Reply:Never could figure out how people could weld with a dislocated shoulder (from patting themselves on the back).It's pretty funny how guys who are really in the marine welding field can spot BS.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Sundown I hope that wasnt to me lol.. I tried again today with maybe a smidge better turn out than the other night. Ill have to take a picture or two.. any tips from someone who does it often would be great. Thanks, Ryan
Reply:5356 if your are going to have it re-anodized4043 will turn black,grind back some hit hard with SS brush.wipe with acetoneand weldidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:barefooter,No that comment wasn't directed at you.  Another poster commented about how good he was at welding towers and fighting chairs.  Funny because I never met a marine fabricator (tower builder) who had any experience with "building fighting chairs".  Totally different process.  There are only about a dozen manufacturers who build high quality fighting chairs and NONE of them are built using a "bump technique".Bump welding is not a difficult process to learn, if you're working one on one with someone who's really good at it.  It does take a lot of practice to "master".  It is a high energy, manual pulsing process which uses relatively high amps to "blast" the surface oxides (anodizing) away from the puddle.  The difficulty comes from the timing required.  Process dictates the use of a torch mounted on/off button.  Basically it's a on/puddle forms/dip filler/off/move repeat process.  Obviously there's a lot more to it (amps, balance, cup size, tungsten, duration, etc, etc., but just think of it as a manual pulse process where each on cycle blasts the oxides for one dip.The thinner the anodized material you're dealing with, the more difficult the process becomes.  Less room for error because if you set the amps too high you get an almost immediate blowthru.  Set the amps too low and you don't achieve adequate "arc force" to blast the oxides.  I'm normally running around 195-200A for anodized tube but I suspect that would be way too high for the lighter material (light ladders) you're talking about.  My guess, is those ladders were welded with 5356 and then anodized.  As prop-doctor indicated 4043 will turn black when anodized.  Most marine structures (towers, T-tops, radar arches) are "bump welded" post anodizing because they're too large to "dip" after building.Also, bump welding of anodized aluminum, is a single pass process.  Only a guy who doesn't have a clue what he's doing would go back over a weld bead, "bumping to get consistent ripples".  Doesn't know what "bump welding" is.  Furthermore, multiple pass is not acceptable since it weakens the base metal in the area of the HAZ leading to premature failure.  (That's just one way to know when a guy doesn't know what he's talking about).A guy who's good at the process can teach the basics to a good tig welder in a day or two.  Then it's up to the trainee to spend the hood time necessary to "master" the process.  At Pipewelders (the company who developed the process) a new welder, straight from trade school, will spend the first two years doing fitup and fab work before he ever makes a weld on a customer tower.  I was fortunate in that I was taught the process by one of the best tower builders in the business (Edison Irving), who just happens to be the son of the owner of Pipewelders.  That guy was truly a magician with a tig torch.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:i did  what tyhe company wanted done..so kiss my ***..i was just saying how we did it...go pound rod up yer ***...i never said you didnt know wtf you were talking about
Reply:NO.After you got through "patting yourself on the back", you recommended a process (going back over the bead with a second pass) which would get you thrown out of any reputable tower builder in the country.  What you described was NOT bump welding.Quality "fighting chairs" such as those from International (now Pompanette), Murray Bros, etc are generally constructed of a combination of cast bronze (chrome plated) and Stainless Steel.  They're sized by their intended purpose (Sailfish-light, Marlin-medium, Giant Tuna-heavy).Only the "cheap" fighting chairs are fabricated from aluminum and then they're welded and then anodized.  NEVER seen bump welding employed in a fighting chair.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by dieselbeefweld over the anodizing like its not there. cover the weld with silver paint. if you suck at it you can print..or pattern the weld by bumping it on an almost parallel angle to the wld and off on off on it til its smooth and patterned nicei built alotta towers and fighting chairs/rails/ etc for boats and thats how thw nebies got into it..luckily for me i had natural talent and rose the ranks fast
Reply:Steve,LOLNo, I don't think it's you that's drunk.Not so sure about the "other guy".Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIII At Pipewelders (the company who developed the process) a new welder, straight from trade school, will spend the first two years doing fitup and fab work before he ever makes a weld on a customer tower.  I was fortunate in that I was taught the process by one of the best tower builders in the business (Edison Irving), who just happens to be the son of the owner of Pipewelders.  That guy was truly a magician with a tig torch.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIINever could figure out how people could weld with a dislocated shoulder (from patting themselves on the back).It's pretty funny how guys who are really in the marine welding field can spot BS.
Reply:Originally Posted by ed macwe dont need members like this
Reply:Calm down girls.... jeezHTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:I guess I`ve been employing the bump technique 4 about 25 years.My tig set-up has always used an on/off "micro-switch" on the torch handle.I sometimes "bump" while tig`n iron,zinc plated sheet stock,pot metal,etc. Never knew the technique had a name/inventor! But,I,m quite some distance from the ocean,and have never worked 4 any of these esteemed tuna tower fabbers  :^(
Reply:Sorry! Did`nt realize this post was so OLD !!! I really need 2 start reading the fine print more carefully! Hey ed mac,have u ever considered switching 2 the field of paleontology? U can dig up old bones all day,and get PAID 4 it!!!