rod size for 1/8" steel with 70 amp welder

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I have not welded in years and my experiance was limited in the first place. I am using a 70 amp welder for now until I can get one better. (It does 40 amps or 70, that's it) I'm just practicing right now, then I might make a table or something (once I get a better welder and alot more practice and knowledge I plan on making a trailer and other more useful items, but for safety's aake that's quite a ways down the road) with what I have now, what rod size would be good for 1/8 steel? I plan on using 6011 but don't know if I should use 1/16 or 3/32 (box says it can handle up to 3/32, but you can't always believe the box). I have a friend that welds for a living in another state told me to go with 1/16, but by cousin who had a welding job for years said 3/32. My palm trees may grow in the shape of a trailer before I find I can safely build one, but gotta start somewere! My grandfather was a welder and showed me how to weld and I eveb had a summer job in high school doing it, but papa never got around to teaching me muchabout selection, just about rod tometal and the job was just making legs for portable ramps. I used what they handed me and that was it (it was a mig, and I previous ly had never used a mig, just stick, so that was an interesting first day, but I digress). And I know yoy wanna say something about the crappy welder, but I have been wanting to get back to welding for a while and just couldn't spend the cash, until I was at the dredded harbor freight to see if they sold ferro rods, and seen they had a parking lot tent sale, I got this welder for $35 and everything else for about $15 more (minus the rods of coarse) so $50 for everything, I couldn't resist, I got goggles and not a mask to save cost, I will see if any of my grandfathers masks are layijg around at my grandma's to grt something better, the welder came with 5 6013 1/16 rods, I got some hobart 1/16 6011 rods at tractor supply (still unopened incase I need to exchange for larger size).Last edited by gibson_es; 10-17-2013 at 01:42 AM.
Reply:I could probably make either size work on 1/8", but the real question is if you can. With only 2 amp settings you will be very limited as to control. 40 amps may or may not work with the 1/16" rods, and 70 may or may not work with the 3/32" rods... Depends a lot on how you weld as well as other things. This would be simpler if your machine allowed you to say adjust between say 40 and 70 amps instead. To control your heat without amp control, you will have to use rod size and technique to find the "sweet spot", not an easy thing to do for someone without enough experience who needs to ask this question. If I was you, I'd look at returning the welder and look for something with a bit more control. I'm also guessing from the output rating that this is a 110v machine. These have a very limited use even if they are infanitely adjustable simply because of the lack of input power. 1/8" steel is about the thickest you might be able to weld under ideal conditions, and 1/16" is probably about the thinnest. That gives you a fairly narrow range to work in, and thin steel with stick is usually pretty tough in general.A few general thoughts that might help. Smaller rods tend to work better with smaller 110v machines, at least the ones that have more amp adjustment to them, simply because of the fact they need less amps to run well. Down side is the rods are fairly "whippy". It's a lot like trying to weld with a wet noodle some times. They are a bit easier to use if you cut them in half and clean the flux off enough of the 2nd piece so you can use both pieces. You loos a bit of rod this way to waste, but the rods are easier to control many times. 3/32" rods are often borderline at best at 70 amps. The bigger rod will give you more power to work with and be stiffer and easier to manipulate. The real question is if the machine has the balls to run them well, and the only way to know is to try them. They do make 5/64" rods that fall somewhat between the two sizes, but they can be tough to find many times and selection is limited. On average they are the largest rod I say will run consistently well on small inexpensive 110v machines.I'd keep my eyes open on CL or yard sales for an old 220v transformer machine. I regularly see "off brand" Ac only units like Craftsmans, Montgomery Wards, Daytons etc for $50 and sometimes even less. Most of these machines were made by Century and rebadged for the store, so they are decent units. I know many new guys shy away from 220v powered units, but if you have an electric dryer, you can easily build yourself an extension cord and run one without the hassle of adding a 220v outlet. You'll have way more power to work with and more control with some units..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:70 amps is pretty cold for 3/32. If I read correctly you're planning on making a trailer with that? Please do us all a favor and have a professional do it before you kill someone when your "weld" breaks at 70mphMillermatic 210 & 300Miller 330 a/bp w/Miller coolmate 3Lincoln 225 ac/dc buzz box200amp Hobart 16hp portable welderCarbon arc torch, oxy/acy, plasma cutterCNC plasma table
Reply:Goggles"  Get a fixed-shade hood at very least!"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Bossfab, nope, you didn't read right. I said once I get better, which I stress is way down the line, and I also state when I get a better machine. Oldendim, like I stated, I'm going to see if one of my grandfathers old ones are around, I'm almost possitive one is.Unfortunately 220 is not an option until I move in march, there is no 220 dryer hookup, I rent so there is no adding oneI really appreciate your concerns, but, your hitting every topic but my question it seems. Dsw did touch bas"e on the question at least.
Reply:You could try 5/64" Lincoln Fleetweld 37, which is a 6013.  Lincoln gives the AC current range at 50-80A.Another is 3/32" Fleetweld 180, a 6011 claimed to perform on low amperage and low OCV.  40-90A is the range on that one.I think you can get either of these at Lowes or Home Depot."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:The answer is for you to simply try them both and find out. Not really what you want to hear, but honestly the only real answer.As I mentioned before a lot of this depends greatly on how you weld, plus the actual output of your machine. No adjustment on output limits you fairly significantly as you can't fine tune what the machine puts out to tweak things to the way you weld.Example: Tuesday I had a student running 6010 who couldn't get rid of undercut. Problem was he was holding too long an arc, and nothing I could do could seem to get him to change, including yelling at him to move in closer every time he started to pull out while watching him weld. He'd make a semi nice weld that time, and as soon as he was left alone, he go right back to the way he was before. He just isn't at the point yet where he can "see" what's going on yet. To combat the issue I tried turning the machine down lower and lower to see if I couldn't find a setting that would at least get him thru this joint so he could move on. No luck. Then I went the opposite direction. I cranked up the machine and told him to drag the rod and force it to stay in contact with the plate. We had better results this way eventually when I managed to get him to stay in contact most of the time. We'll see how he does next week... If he goes back to the way he was, or if he'll continue on from where he's at.The point is his lack of skill changes how he has to run the rod and what setting he can use. You won't have either option most likely. Your skill level probably isn't high enough that you can control your arc length to make heat adjustments yet, and you machine won't let you tailor the arc to you or the rod. That leaves you with very limited options, mostly playing with rod size and floundering around trying to find what works.Keep in mind with stick, the farther you keep the rod from the material, the "hotter" a rod tends to burn. The closer you hold the rod to the work, the "colder" it tends to run. Problem is that small cheap machines often don't have a decent open circuit voltage, so if you hold the rod too tight, the arc goes out and it sticks. Hold it too far away and the arc becomes erratic and then goes out. There is a very narrow window where you can make adjustments and it takes a bit of skill to be able to maintain even a consistent length, let alone vary it as needed to make adjustments.Simple solution usually is more adjustability on your amps, a better machine that has a better OCV, and usually going with more power. Hence why you are getting the replies you have been getting. None of us can tell what your skill level is exactly, and that's the only thing that will make this really work with what you have..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Tell me how to run a better machine with no 220 without going and getting a generator or generatoe/welder combo, I would love to take my next check and get a better welder. But without a way to power it its more useless then what I have.I get what your saying, its a crappy set up, but its what I have and while I'm not saying there's not a way to run something bigger, I am saying I can't think of any, I am not sarcastic when I say, if you think one one let me know, that is genuine. If I don't take it back today on my lunch break, there is no returning it. It has a 5 day return on it.today is day 5. I don't want to take it back until I KNOW I can replace it with a usable welder next check (oct 25th)Last edited by gibson_es; 10-17-2013 at 12:49 PM.
Reply:I'm not trying to bust on you. I know there are good reasons why something else might not work for you, and I don't fault you for them. I just want to make sure you understand the "why" behind some of the comments and how it effects your original question. The end result may simply be "non of the above" will work for you. 1/2 an hour with your machine and a few handfulls of different rods would let me answer your question, but then the answer would only tell us I can make it work, not that you can.As far as 220v power, there are several options depending on what you have to work with. The dryer outlet is usually the easiest, but if you have gas like I do, that's not always an option. An electric stove is one other option. Some use a plug like a dryer, though some are hard wired. Pulling a stove in and out is a real PITA, but I did it when I had an apartment. I ran the extension cord out the door and welded in the driveway. Again gas appliances make this option unuseable however.  Next option would be to add a temporary breaker and outlet and run an extension cord. It's not an option I like to recommend, because it required you have at least some skill with electric, and it's not the best idea to play with a land lords panel. That said, it's fairly common to simply plug in a breaker to gain 220v for jobs like running commercial dehumidifiers and big floor sanders. I'll leave it up to you to decide if this might be an option you might be interested in. Some landlords don't have issues if tenants make improvements, as long as they ask 1st and either leave them when they leave, or take them out 100% and leave no trace they were done. Typically with electrical stuff, it's best if an electrician does any permanent work. As a landlord ( ok I "manage" the property we rent out that was my parents house) I'd have no issue if someone wanted a simple 220v box dropped out of the panel. I probably wouldn't even charge other than for the breaker and outlet ( assuming I don't have a "spare" one on hand. If they wanted a line run to the garage, there'd be some charge due to where I'd have to run the wire in our place, as well as the cost of wire, but again it wouldn't be huge. Your mileage may vary depending on your relationship with your landlord. The current tenant we have wants a garage door opener. I told him if he buys it and leaves it when he leaves, I'll instal it for free. A better 110v machine would be another option, but like you say, it will cost you more money. The little TA 95s are nice little inverters. IIRC they run about $350-450 new ( been a while since I looked them up so I'm going off memory here...) Machines like my Maxstar 200 are even better, but they come at a much higher cost. None of these will probably work for you right now. I really don't look much at the cheaper 110v stick machines because they have some significant down sides and they tend to frustrate new learners. It's up to you to decide if you want to take this back or not. My only point was that this machine has some serious limits. They can be overcome with good skills, but gaining those skills by using a machine of this level is usually very frustrating. I have enough trouble teaching students the basics when I have plenty of power and adjustment to work with using top quality machines ( XMT 304's). I can point you to at least 4 students this term that have expressed dissatisfaction with how fast they are moving along learning stick. They'd be even more frustrated trying to do this on their own with a machine that limits them. Sadly cheap machines are marketed towards those who really NEED a better machine, but who can't afford them. I see so many guys get frustrated and give up, not because they CAN'T learn, but because they are fighting their machine without realizing it. If I have trouble with all my experience teaching others trying to get decent welds with a HF machine, you can bet the students are banging their head on a concrete wall..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thank you for your knowledge so far. Very helpful even if I seem stubbern.I dobt get frustrated easy, and often do things people tell me I can't (not saying I think your telling me that). Of this welder can weld 1/8 steel, I can weld 1/8 steel with it eventually, I dobt have patience with everything, but when it comes to learning. However, givin what I have now, I was wondering what stick size would be best, it seems tue answer is that ots differrnt for everyone. I will keep the 1/16 I got and try to find the othersizes and try them when I get paid. My parents live 45-60 min away, so going to them isn't easy, but maybe they will let me set up a good welder there and use there dryer outlet once a week, then use this 110 welder at home for practice in between. I found a few lincoln 225 ac units used for around $150. If they can be talked down a bit and my parents let me use there hookup, I might be able to swing that next check
Reply:Sounds like a plan.You might take a minute and add your location to your profile at the top of the page so it appears on the screen on the right side of your posts like many here have done. That way guys always know at a glance where you are located. A bunch of us get together from time to time or pass along info to those near us. You might find someone here who is willing to help you learn, or they may know of a deal and let you know when they see it.Another thing that you might keep in mind is looking out for a class at night at a local tech school or college. When you sit down and add up what rods, material, electric and so on would cost you, not to mention the instruction, a class is often stupid cheap. Around me it breaks down to roughly $11.50 / hr, and if you are dedicated, it's real easy to burn up that much in steel and rod in that time once a week. Many times it's easier to learn when someone stands there and watches you weld. Some things can't easily be conveyed with picts and text.When you do get a chance to run some beads, post up picts as well as the amps, rod size, material thickness, which machine you use ( if you get a 220v unit later) and so on and guys will help you to learn. It might help to also link to this thread, because you'll probably see the same general comments on your machine mentioned again if guys forget about this thread, or haven't read it. Don't get wound up, just take it in stride as almost everyone here is out to help and comments on your gear is just part of the "service".Good luck and have fun..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Right now I work 1:15am-10:15pm so I'm not sure I can find classes around that, but if I could find something thays just once a week on my day off its better then nothing (that wouldn't come from a school though, I would have to fibd someone locally willing to teach for cheap) when I get home to a real computer I will update app. I actually took a pic of my first weld the other day, god aweful, but I have a few things to try for improvements, might pos pics after that.My dad said he isn't comfortable with me welding there because he is in a residential area. Really if I could find someone with a shed and 220 hook up in my area that I could pay like $50 a month to use tuat would be perfect but no idea how to go about finding such a thing.I know you listed a few 110 units, know of any that might be cheaper used that is better then what I got now? If I could drop $150 on a used 110 that had a bit more range and versatility, I would do it and then I could weld at home.
Reply:Decent 110v units usually aren't cheap because of the electronics required to "pump up" the power compared to old school transformers. CL can be your friend with this. If you haven't tried it I'd highly recommend Searchtempest.com to help with CL searches. I use "welder" as my search term and sort the list manually to locate deals unless I'm searching for something specific.Also there have been a plethora of imported inverter stick machines over the last few years, so it's getting a bit easier to locate semi decent units at a reasonable cost. Down side is that many times QC isn't what it should be and some units arrive DOA or blow up shortly after you use them a bit. Some importers have a very bad rap for talking big up front, but when things go wrong, it's almost impossible to get them to respond in a timely manner. They tend to drag things out so they can get around the Ebay and credit card protection plans and leave the buyer to hang in the breeze. I'd buy from someone with a long term proven track record for quality service. Note however than some sellers have edited out posts and deleted threads to cover their tracks, so you can't believe everything posted on their stuff.Be advised that complicated units like inverters while they allow you to get more out of less, when they go bad, they usually blow up and aren't worth repairing. In fact many cheap imported ones don't get repaired, they get replaced, often with another one from a bad batch. It pays to stick with big names in the industry like Miller, Lincoln, Thermal arc and possibly HTP. You pay more, but the quality control is usually pretty decent and they stand behind their stuff even if it does cost more up front. If you go with a used inverter, be sure you test it thoroughly before buying to make sure you aren't buying someone elses problem. If I had to look for a small inverter new at a reasonable price, TA and HTP would probably  top my list. I would also look at Millers Maxstar's as well as Lincolns comperable machines. I picked up a nice used Maxstar 200 from a member here. While it's not even close to your price range, I got a killer deal on a top of the line machine that will out perform just about any machine on 110v or 220v power in it's amp class. I paid probably 1/3 to 1/4 what it would have cost me to buy it new at retail. The Maxstar 150's go for a lot less used and you don't give up much at all compared to what I have. The TA 95s probably does 95% of what the Maxstar 150 will do on 110v power without all the tig functions many of the Maxstars come with. Cost new is less than most used Maxstars run. I've seen a few listed used on rare occasions, but You'd have to hunt and be patient to get one and move fast when it comes up.Transformers on the other hand while they suck up more power and require 220v to run, are usually bullet proof. There really isn't much of anything to break in these, and they can be found dirt cheap. If something does break, it's usually something very simple to fix like a switch or bad diodes in a DC unit. an example of a transformer machine would be like the Ac 225 Lincolns you mentioned on CL. I've seen 40+ year old machines that were beat to hell and were used in heavy industry day in and out that still ran like they were new. I've seen these get completely submerged in floods and welded just as good when they got dried out as they did before hand. Something most inverters with their circuit boards usually can't say.You can stay "cheap" with a transformer as I mentioned by going with an "off brand" like Craftsman, Century, Dayton, Montgomery Wards and so on. Most were made by reputable major names and just rebranded for the store or company. They often bring way less than their name brand counterparts do even though it's the same machine.Don't worry about how ugly your welds are. Everyone started out some where. Many of us can quickly point out major issues with ugly welds and help you improve..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:http://lakeland.craigslist.org/tls/4126600411.htmlIt may not be available by time I can get it, but what about this? It says infinite amp, no idea what thay sapose to mean, looks like a 100 amp to me.Last edited by gibson_es; 10-17-2013 at 10:47 PM.
Reply:Looks like a transformer machine. 100 amps and the infinite adjustment are better than what you have, but the output is still pretty low ( not that you will do much better on 110v power).  From the look I'd say it was made for Sears by Century. I've seen almost identical 220v units and they were all of good quality. Price seems a bit high, but fair. You'd get a lot more power out of a 220v machine at the same price however. I'd work on the price and see if he'll come down. $75 wouldn't be bad, $50 would be tempting. It might sit for awhile, you never know. If it sits for any length of time, you can often get them to lower the price since no one else seems to be interested. Either that or they want way to much and no one is willing to spend that kind of money.One issue I've seen with machines like that is that many times the shunt block get stuck. Make sure that you can change the settings and the block moves easily when you grab the handle and try to adjust it. If it doesn't move easily or is stuck, bargain hard to get the price significantly reduced. Many times a good cleaning will solve the issue, so if the price is right I'd still go for it. Just don't bend the handle by trying to force it. Condition looks super clean, so I doubt you will have any issues with this.For a 110v stick machine, it's simple and easy to work on if there are problems. Century is part of Lincoln now, and I'd bet many of the parts if needed are available. Down side is that transformers aren't terribly efficient, and with only 110v to work with you are still limited. Make sure you use it on a 20 amp dedicated circuit ( a circuit with nothing else running on it) to get the most out of that unit. On 15 amps max output will be reduced and/or you'll trip breakers. As far as "infinite amp" it means that you can set the machine for any amp setting between the minimum, say maybe 25 amps from the pict, to full power at 100 amps. Adjustment is rough, but serviceable. With this you in theory have a bit more output to work with at the top and have the ability to set the machine between 40 and 70 that you have on the other one. If you need to be at 55 amps to weld with say 5/64" rods, you have that option..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:If its still there by payday, I will offer $75 and see what happens. Might try and sell some ammo to get the cash before then. If I get it though I may not make another purchase til moving time in march. And I would try and sell this current machine to make up for cost as I don't need two 110v welders. (If I couod even find someone to by it in th first place).How can I tell a 20 amp from a 15 (multimeter?) I might could figure out if my outlet in tye garage is dedicated.Last edited by gibson_es; 10-18-2013 at 12:14 AM.
Reply:" Pulling a stove in and out is a real PITA"You pulled the whole stove out just to access the plug?  You never figured out that you can pull the bottom drawer out of the stove and reach the plug that way?  Sounds like a guy I knew who wanted to put an 8 foot cord on his stove, but could not find one.He asked me if I knew where one could be bought.  I said what do you need an 8 footer for?  He said so he could plug it up without having to reach over the top cause it was sandwiched in by cabinets on both sides.  He actually got upset when I told him to take out the pots & pans drawer and reach through there to plug it up.I know it's off topic but somebody else might need to know how it's done.......the easy way.
Reply:not going to harp on the machine....you know you want to upgrade and so thats good enough...i have put in root welds down to the low 70ish amps with a 1/8 6010, its all about practice...but please whatever you do make sure that you find your grandfathers welding mask before you try any of this....you will get the worst sunburn of your life if you try to use goggles to stick weld for any amount of time. 70 amps should be plenty of juice for a 3/32 6010....and as far as getting a better machine to run on 110v i would suggest something like my tig welder that is an inverter type machine much more flexable and the little miller maxstar machines are not too crazy expensive, im sure there are also cheaper options available.
Reply:Originally Posted by gibson_esHow can I tell a 20 amp from a 15 (multimeter?) I might could figure out if my outlet in tye garage is dedicated.
Reply:Originally Posted by yotawheelernot going to harp on the machine....you. now you want to upgrade and so thats good enough...i have put in root welds down to the low 70ish amps with a 1/8 6010, its all about practice...but please whatever you do make sure that you find your grandfathers welding mask before you try any of this....you will get the worst sunburn of your life if you try to use goggles to stick weld for any amount of time. 70 amps should be plenty of juice for a 3/32 6010....and as far as getting a better machine to run on 110v i would suggest something like my tig welder that is an inverter type machine much more flexable and the little miller maxstar machines are not too crazy expensive, im sure there are also cheaper options available.
Reply:This is the plug in you are looking for. Notice the sideways slot.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Hey bud have you looked into a small used engine drive at all? Last week on ebay there was a used miller blue star up for auction in very good shape for a used machine that was going for $300 with only a few hours left on the auction. It even had the running gear(handles and wheels). They are small machines and don't take up much room, and with the wheels and handles it's like moving a hand truck around. Just a thought, and then you have a generator as well. I just looked and it was gone, otherwise I would have posted the link for you.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:The machine will work on a 15 amp circuit, only you won't be able to get full power out of it and chances are it will trip the breaker more frequently at the higher end.Dave not all 20 amp circuits have those outlet. Many just have the standard 15 amp ones, but the wire is 12 ga and the breaker is a 20 amp breaker. Someone here in the past posted up the code explanation behind why you can use 15 amp outlets on a 20 amp line, but I forget the exact reason right now..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWDave not all 20 amp circuits have those outlet. Many just have the standard 15 amp ones, but the wire is 12 ga and the breaker is a 20 amp breaker. Someone here in the past posted up the code explanation behind why you can use 15 amp outlets on a 20 amp line, but I forget the exact reason right now.
Reply:Thanks so far guys. I talk to the seller. He is going hunting and wont he back til Sunday, I offered $75 he said he will take $90 and no lower says he is in no hurry to sell. What limits (I'm sure its an estimite) wouldx you set for 100 amps or less? (Rod size, metal thickness, ect) it says "cutting" on the other side from the 100 amp mark. Can you cur at 100 amps? I know my grandfather used to use oxy/acetaline but on the occasion he used a stick welder (out of gas usually) I remember him using a much hire setting (high 100's I think), so I figured it had to be around there to cut. The unit I have now states it can weld 1/8 steel at 70 amps. And looking at trailers at tractor supply, there smaller ones are ALL 1/8 angle (even the frame) so I assumr this unit will work for my future (way, way future) project (got a lot of learning first). But I wanna double check with y'all. I might would go 1/4" for a higher load limit if this little unit can do it. If I drop the cash on this I don't wanna have to get something else again any time soon. I would want next step up to be one with built in generator and I have alot of other things to take care of outside of welding before I can fund a large purchase like that. Plus I want to get a oxy/acetaline set up first (I found a used one at TSC marked down half-ish price from $3** to $150-ish. Dont know how much gas the tanks have left though. I would love to get it this weekend before its gone but don't think I can swing both purchases amd the welder is more important to me.Please forgive any typos. I'm using my phone and its a bit broken, I can't seem to place the "curser" were I want to make corrections. I was going to replace this weekend but using my "new phon money" on a welder, apperently.Edit: the tanks for the cutting kit prolly don't come with gas any way, were does one fill tanks for acetylene and oxygen? What should I expect to pay? The tanks are small link in this this linkhttp://www.harborfreight.com/portable-torch-kit-with-oxygen-and-acetylene-tanks-65818.htmlTye one at tractoe supply seems too good tp pass on if its still there, the harbor freight one as you can see is almost twice the price.Last edited by gibson_es; 10-24-2013 at 09:35 AM.Cut is sort of a misnomer. If you over crank the amps on rods like 6011, it will melt it's way thru the material if the amps are high enough for the rod size and the material is thin enough. The cut is ugly and rough to say the least. It's somewhat useful if you need to get rid of that stubborn rusted bolt in a location where a bit of damage to the surrounding material won't hurt, or you need to hack thru something for demo you can't reach any other way, but that's about it. I wouldn't say you could hold any sort of meaning full tolerance on the cut however.As far as thickness, 1/8" would be about the max with that small machine, and I wouldn't trust it for critical welds like on an over the road trailer. A few things to understand about material thickness and amps. 1st each rod type has it's own range of amps it likes to run in for a particular rod size. 6011 tends to weld at lower amps say than 7018 the same diameter. 6011 also is a deeper penetrating rod, but it's not as ductile and doesn't have the tensile strength a 70XX rod does. You have to balance all the factors when choosing a rod type. The other thing to keep in mind is that "weld" means different things to different people. Some guys feel something is "welded" if two pieces stick together no matter how ugly. Someone doing structural welds on buildings and pipe, the quality tolerances on what makes a "good weld" are much higher. When your amps are low, chances are that the weld material won't fuse deep enough into the base material. The weld just sits on top of the base material and the weld hasn't got it's full strength. That's typically the case with small machines like you are talking about. Having a bigger machine with more amps greatly increases the likelihood that you will get a strong weld because the rod penetrates deeper into the base metal and you get good fusion. Treat these small welders as good enough to do art work, fix lawnmower decks and other noncritical things, but for trailers ( other than a lawn cart for a tractor) you need more power. Expect that you WILL need to upgrade to a bigger 220v machine in the future if you are serious. Even though I have a top of the line inverter that will make the most of 110v power, I still wouldn't trust it for critical welds on 110v without doing destructive tests ( actual AWS bend tests, not beating on something with a hammer) on welds 1st. I'd go with the machine on 220v power and not have to worry about it.As far as the torch kit. I wouldn't bother with a rig with cylinders that small for several reasons. #1 is that the cylinders are way too small for much more than soldering. With Acetylene you have to watch how fast you withdraw  acetylene from the cylinder. The rule is 1/7th the total in an hour. Even the smallest cutting tips exceed this with those tiny cylinders. If you want to cut or heat one bolt, it will work, but any more than that and you exceed the withdrawl rate.  When that happens you pull the acetone out of the cylinder and that can damage the regs as well as cause safety issues. 2nd tiny cylinders like this cost way more per cf of gas than does a larger fill. That's because most places tack on handling fees, hazmat charges, freight,, testing fees and so on. It usually ends up costing the same for that stuff with a small cylinder as it does with a big one. My 100 cf O2 cylinder costs me only $5 less than it does to fill my 300 cf one. Note they don't list all those "fees" separately, they are built into the price, but they are still there.As far as where to get cylinders filled ( usually exchanged for full ones vs getting yours actually filled), tractor supply does exchange them. However IIRC TSC had some issues last year or the year before because they were taking cylinders they were not supposed to that belonged to other companies, and now I believe they will only take their own cylinders even if you have a receipt. Check with your store as this may vary from place to place. Same can apply to getting cylinders swapped or filled at local welding suppliers, though most will swap small cylinders like this no problem. remember when they swap, your bright shiny new cylinders go away and you get whatever they have to hand you. Good thing is when they do this vs filling your own, you don't have to wait to have things sent out and the company usually deals with any hydros that have to be done.I regularly see larger OA sets selling used with cylinders for $150-300 depending on size and condition as well if they are full or not. I'd go up to at least a B size acetylene if not a 75 cf one and a 60 to 100 cf O2 cylinder. Also note that the tiny MC cylinder in that kit uses a different size reg connector than bigger cylinders. Same goes for the next size up "B" cylinder which also isn't the same as the MC cylinder uses. To go to "standard" acetylene cylinders, you either need an adapter that makes the regs a bit clunky, or you need to change the reg or fittings. Go big right off the bat and you don't have to worry about this in the future..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Dang it man. This sucks. I find good 220 welders for around $150 which I ghink I can swing. So it really sucks to kbow I can afford the better option, but can't use it. I really wish I had a way to use a 220.I can get the craftsman now, and theb wyen I move in march-ish, suck it up and get a 220 unit. But thay feels wasteful. However, if I get the 220 unit now, it will collect dust for the next 5-6 months because I have no way to use it. On anothesr note. I found this. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/cr/B000V...d/ref=mw_dp_crSeems "noname" but alot of good reviews. I read a few of them.Its $20 less then the craftsman. If you were to get a 110, "in my shoes" so to speak which would you choose? TSC has 10 Box of 3/32 6011 for $25.As for the oxy/acetylene kit. It will most likely have to wait anyway if I don't get this small kit. But I'll take your advixe and just go big the first time with this. I would do it with the welder too if I could. I hate to drop $90 knowing it wobt evej do what I want it to in the lobg run. Its just better for practice then what I have.I talked to landlord about a 220. He said he will only let it be installed hy someone he chooses, which has to wait till he gets back (he goes up north for a few months a year, he cokes back in either jan or feb, he has a guy here that handles emergency stuff and inspections for him) by time he comes back, I will be cloae to moving.Last edited by gibson_es; 10-24-2013 at 01:11 PM.
Reply:Tough call. There's really no information that I could find going thru your link on that amazon machine. No specs, duty cycle etc to use to judge the machine. I seldom put any faith in customer reviews on things like this simply because the vast majority of people who buy them really don't know what they are doing, so they really can't provide an objective review. I've seen way to many people who are starting out who think just because the two pieces don't fall off as soon as they are done "welding", that it's welded well. BZZZT! Wrong answer.If anything if I had to take a blind stab, I'd opt for the Craftsman one since I'd guess it's a Century made unit and they are usually of decent quality as far as how well they are put together. Having used top quality machines however I know all of these are going to be lacking in comparision.I feel your pain and understand what a frustration this can be. The only other though would be to suggest a night class ( I can't remember if I made this suggestion to you earlier or not). At least with a class, you'd get the opportunity to use someone elses machine and the quality most places have is well beyond the price range of most new guys. It at least gives you  a good reference to judge stuff for yourself, not to mention getting some quality hands on instruction at the same time.As far as rods, 6011 is a nice rod, but it's not my 1st choice to start guys on. It doesn't make the prettiest welds and takes a bit of practice to run semi decently. This term we have a lot of guys who work for the gas company taking the night class and 6010/11 is kicking their buts. They are having a lot easier time with other rods like 7014, 6013 and 7018. Problem for you with them is that all require more amps to run well compared to 6011, and not all 7018's like to run on AC. 70 amps is really too low to run 3/32" rods on anything but 6011. 100 amps is borderline with 3/32" on the others. In theory they "should" run, but when you start adding in things like voltage drop for the line, 15 mp breakers vs 20 amp ones and so on, it's gets questionable if they will run well or not.It might pay for you to take a minute and add your location to your profile at the top right of the screen so it shows up all the time. You might find someone here who's local and willing to help you learn or maybe run a few rods with you so you see what to expect..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan