which wire is more ductile?

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Which makes for a more ductile weld, er70s-6 or self sheilded flux core?
Reply:Define ductile? I've passed bent tests with both.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Which will bend more before it breaks. Best in an application with high vibration and higher stress.The application is suspension components for a street strip car.  Hard launches off the rev limiter with lots of spray. Ao it has to be good with shock and resistant to cracking
Reply:I'm kinda leaning more toward fluxcore because I think the slag may slow down cooling.
Reply:Suspension parts are welded with mig and tig everyday, I would stick to one of those (solid wire). Keep in mind even if you get the most ductile weld wire it won't help if the base metal cracks.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:I've run more self shielded flux core wire in my life than anything else. There is a time and place for it, this ain't it! Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:So you guys reckon the ER70S-6 is the way to go then.  Thanks for the input!
Reply:Just curious, a little over a month ago you posted some pictures of your vertical and overhead welds. Seems to me that you are still learning, are you sure you are ready for suspension work?Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Its just reinforcement to the stock torque boxes on a fox body stang. They are spot welded and fully welding them tends to keep them from ripping out. Its actually my brothers car and he's dropping in a 496 big block chevy and he will probably be the one welding them up. Hes done it on many of mustangs, but they were not quite as radical.  I think he needs wild rides x boxes but he's cheap.  Anyway I welded up the subframe connectors (the kind that come threw the floor) today. All over head with 035. ER70S-6 and it turned out pretty good.  Done a lot of practicing since the last post!  I'm actually pushing him toward lincoln outtershield (dual sheilded wire) for the cage and torque boxes, but the stated question came up and I really didn't have a good answer for him. I figured the slag on self sheilded wire would help some but figured there was a reason why everyone uses bare wire.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughWhich makes for a more ductile weld, er70s-6 or self sheilded flux core?
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughWhich will bend more before it breaks. Best in an application with high vibration and higher stress.The application is suspension components for a street strip car.  Hard launches off the rev limiter with lots of spray. Ao it has to be good with shock and resistant to cracking
Reply:Look at the manufacturer's spec sheets for various filler metals.  Most should list a test value called % elongation.  This number is a measure of how much a weld tensile test stretches before breaking.  The higher the percentage, the more ductile the filler metal at room temperature.  There are also Charpy V-notch testing results (CVN for short) that measure a weld filler metals toughness.  These tests are usually conducted at low temperatures, where most steels become more brittle.  Higher CVN numbers indicate a tougher weld deposit.  CVN's probably won't matter as much unless you're welds see stress at sub zero temperatures. Limit your choices to filler metals with strength similar to whatever your welding.  This means an E70XX filler of some kind in most circumstances.  A 'J' at the end of the AWS filler metal classification code is an indication that the filler metal has superior toughness at low temperatures.  The exact definition is a little complicated to explain here.  As Matt mentioned, filler metals that contain Nickel are usually tougher than those that do not.  Nickel is an excellent alloying additive to make a weld tougher, more ductile.  So seeing Ni in the AWS filler metal classification is also an indicator of a tougher weld filler metal.Keep in mind that the manufacturer's test data come from welds made under ideal conditions.  Usually flat groove welds on thick plates, with good pre-heat and strict interpass temperature control.  The test joints are usually welded with lots of fast stringer beads to keep heat input low, rather than large weaves that quickly fill up the weld joint.  All of these factors work together to produce the best quality weld possible.If you're welding dirty steel, vertical up, outside, on a cold day, and you blast a whole bunch of filler metal into a weld in a single pass, you're stacking the deck against yourself.  Under those conditions, you're choice of filler will matter less, as no filler metal does its best work under those conditions.  To get the most toughness out of your welds, preparation of the weld joint is key.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Thanks fellas. Lots of good just info there. I appreciate it
Reply:Your design should far outrank the weld filler choice. If the design is on the ragged edge of working it needs to be re-done.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Holy carp, matt and dab just pourin' out the info lolHow do you know the blacksmith's dog? When you hollar at him he makes a bolt for the door!
Reply:ER70-S6 is pretty commonly used in suspension and roll cage fabrication. Even on chromoly parts, they are welded with ER70-S6 or ER70-S2 in just about every situation unless the part is to be stress relieved. The most important thing is to have enough penetration and proper joint prep.
Reply:Originally Posted by that'll_buff_outHoly carp, matt and dab just pourin' out the info lol
Reply:ER70S-6 wire is one specific filler, which has to meet specific chemistry and metallurgical performance specs.Self-shielded fluxcore wire comes in multiple 'flavors', and those different wires all meet different chemistry and metallurgical performance specs.The question is about the same as which is 'faster', a Mustang GT500 or a Chevy.  One item is specified just a wee bit more than the other there.  If you want to know the specs on a certain wire, go look up the specs from a manufacturer's data sheet.  Yield strength, % elongation, Charpy V-notch (CVN) values, etc, etc, etc are all there in the spec sheets and consumables catalogs.So the 'short' answer is (yet again) RTFM.    The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Then there's the universal filler.  Very ductile."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Self-shielded flux core like the Lincoln NR-211 that comes in the 1 lb spools @ Home Depot is generally comparable to 6010 or 6011, which means yield strengths of around 60ksi. It mirrors the performance of 6010/6011, ie; a stiff arc that digs deep, fluid puddle that freezes fast, lots of spatter, smoke that smells like high school shop class, etc. etc. Innershield tolerates dirt and rust and contamination very well, whereas hard wire and dual shield wires do not. I wouldn't hesitate to weld suspension parts with 0.035" ER70-S6, as long as they were crystal clean and every trace of paint or oil was gone. Even the smallest dual shield wire is too hot for light gauge automotive structures, it's designed for spray transfer and doesn't run well when turned down below its operating parameters. With some 0.035" NR-211 or ESAB Coreshield 11 you can set the machine just as you would for hard wire and weld your guts out! Good luck!
Reply:That was actually another question I was going to ask. Is there a fluxcore more tolerant of dirty metal?Thanks for the info!
Reply:fluxcore tends to be more tolerant of contamination, the flux will float contaminants out of the weld and trap them in the slag layer, they also tend to penetrate better on smaller machines than hard wire will.
Reply:Originally Posted by jamesyarbroughI'm actually pushing him toward lincoln outtershield (dual sheilded wire) for the cage and torque boxes, but the stated question came up and I really didn't have a good answer for him. I figured the slag on self sheilded wire would help some but figured there was a reason why everyone uses bare wire.