Conquering the #%$?*& counter top

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I don't know if I can do this or not, but I am busting my azz trying.I have to weld in a piece of ss counter top right in plain sight.   It has to be food grade and look at least decent    I did this once and effed it up, so I need to do it over or hire some one to do it for me.   Today I made a tool out of  some aluminum channel I had.  Its just a slot cut in it so I can weld with heat sink all around me to help keep the warpage down.I took a shelf I pulled out of the same job.  Cut it in two with a wheel and pushed the pieces back together for a good fitupl     Edges were cleaned up with a flap disk but kept square,   No v groove or anything.  I think its about 20 gauge sheet,With an aluminum backer and the aluminum clamped on top, I did manage to get a weld.    This was yesterdays set up.This was the fitup.   I did manage to get about a 2" weld that I liked.   The rest was a mess.   This was the result.  First half of the weld is no filler, second half was with filler   That is a 1/16 tungsten for reference. Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Today I did 2 more shelf pieces.   On the last one I did manage to get all the way across the sheet.   I tried 1/16 tungsten and .040.  I could not tell much of a difference.The first has A with no filler, B with filler and C with just a little filler from some .030 308L mig wire.They come out a little different every time.  This piece was not tacked and it pulled together soon after I started which resulted in a lap weld later on.  The lap weld went pretty well as long as it was clamped tightly.The tool I made did not work like I thought so I am going to make anther one withe the slot going the other way.   Then my son can stand on the ends so I can weld the middle.About 25 amps welding, more to get a puddle going.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:This is my second attempt with the same setup.   Aluminum backer, aluminum on topWith filler it takes  a LOT more heat so its no filler for this job.   I do keep a piece of mig wire in my hand to help get the puddle started on both sides and in case the puddle gets low or too thin.This is my attempt at blending Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Man I know the frustration I did some drip pans out of .040 and had to be fully welded on the corners..SIN CITY METAL WORKSvisit my YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/devvon
Reply:I see Hot spots they will kill your finish
Reply:Do you have any pulse or frequency change capability?http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ce-Distortion/
Reply:You need to put filler in if you want to grind it flat. If your going to just fuse it , just brush it out.
Reply:Mr. Moose,  thank you ofor that article.  Going to try today.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:David I have two more trick for you when i weld thing like these.Get an air hose with a blow gun and cool your weld after each little pass. So your base metal stay cold.Other great trick a polisher told me. You can use a sheet metal hammer and a dolly to straighten high and low before final polishing. Dolly under the high spot then hammer. Sand a bit to see what is the flatness then repeat.Hope it help.Remember countertop always have bend that help the flat surface to "stay" flat it help when you weld.
Reply:Try this,use 3/32 filler wire and 70-75 amps. Freehand right over the top of the wire and it will do the rest itself. You now will be putting heat into the filler and not warp the base metal. It takes some practice and finesse so do it on some scrap first.UA Local 598
Reply:I tried the pulse like in the article .   100 amps 40% ON time   25 amps background current , 200 Hz.    This seemed to work as well as before maybe better except the big hole I blew trying to tack where there was no backer.I am getting better, but no way good enough.   I have a company giving me an estimate of the job.   Look closely at the reflection   I have no distortion.   I cleaned off the welds with only a hand SS wire brush.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:20ga is impossibly light to be doing a butt weld across such a large flat area. I won't make a counter out of anything lighter than 14ga now and avoid butt welds across those spans like the plague. I use filler and sand the welds down as fusion leaves a valley that collects food & bacteriaTry a heat absorbing paste, that might help a bitLast edited by Canoe2fish; 03-08-2012 at 08:00 PM.Thermal Arc Fabricator 2101970 Lincoln RedfaceMiller 150 STLStill need a Syncrowave and a plasma and a milling machine and a lathe and a bigger shop and a....
Reply:if that's the table it looks like hell,  i'm not there and i can't see the whole thing but wouldn't it have been easier to bust up a new top/chute?   from the looks of it you are very close why bring someone in now.ed;  i'm talking about the table itself,  looks beat to hell.  can you tap a piece of rod into that hole and weld over it?Last edited by fdcmiami; 03-08-2012 at 08:02 PM.
Reply:fdcmiami above is scrap I have been practicing on.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:too bad, A.  i've been in a couple of restaurant equipment co's years ago looking for work.  they did not sweat appearance because it all had to be ground smooth.  the good thing about it is that even though the weld is ugly, SS can be made to look good with grinding/sanding/polishing.   i guess the bigger issue here is the distortion;   it's likely that the outfit that follows, if they are in that business will just tell the owner, yeah we can do it but it's going to warp;  end of story.    sometimes it sucks being the first one in.  glOT  i used my sharpie the other day and i organized my tig supplies and found a home for it.  took out a lot of extras and things i didn't use and ended up with a perfect location. Attached Images
Reply:get your joint set and use laywire, I wouldt bother trying to dip the filler, just lay it along the seam and run it. Put more tack in closer together and weld tack to tack then skip a few and weld tack to tack, come back after it cools and do another run between the tacks that werent welded the first time. That should help with the warping and keep the heat from getting away from you
Reply:Have you tried to pre-heat the whole piece to prevent distortion or warpage. I know I toured a German Bus factory and the buses side panels were steel and they would pre-heat the whole sheet the weld it, when it contracted [cooled], it was tight with no distortion. I have not tried it myself.Thank you....Life is tough, tougher when your stupid...2xMiller Matic 252Miller PassportSpoolMate 100Miller Dynasty 200dxThermal Dynamics A80-mounted to PlasmaCamThermal Dynamics 52-PortableMiller Trail Blazer 320
Reply:Why cant you just weld like 1 or 2 inches at a time? It may take a while but you wont get the warping.
Reply:Have you though about welding a permanent backer on the underneath side?   Might also help the warping.Not sure if it would interfere with the function though....
Reply:All of the warping is from heat. The length of time you have the arc on is what is killing you. Short runs. 1"-2" at most. then move a 1' away to start again.  Peening the weld also relieves some of the stress stretching the metal back to the before weld position. The weld you are trying to make can be accomplished with no backing no clamping during welding. Your welds look hot to me.
Reply:http://www.redhillsupply.com/content...o-body-repair/For thin material you might consider a tool like this.
Reply:welds look hot to me also, and maybe a little large.  when i had to tack something together that light i put the tacks very close together and when i welded out i would start a little bit before my tack because if you're having a problem with warpage for sure if you heat that tack and you have a couple of inches of distance to the next one that makes for four inches total it can let go (causing the sheet to buckle) and cause you some serious dismay.this thread has been interesting for the fact that it deals with how a small repair can become a big issue.   it's certainly happened to me and i'm sure it's happened to other's.  it's just rare on these boards for someone to openly post about a problem they are unable to resolve.   look at it this way,  the next time you get called out and some owner/mgr shows you something like this you'll probably approach it differently;  if you choose to deal with it at all.  you can't do it all.
Reply:Heat control.Put the big thick piece of aluminum on the back of the seam, put the big piece of aluminum channel on the front of the seam (neat idea, I'll have to remember that one), clamp it all tight and even.  Make a few small tack welds and let it all cool down (trick with the forced air cooling is a good one).  Make a few more small tack welds and let it all cool down.  Maybe then you can make a few small widely-spaced welds (no more than maybe 1-2" long, if that, and I'd say more like maybe 1/2" long max) maybe with some 0.030 filler via 'lay-wire'.  Let cool.  Remove clamp/chill blocks (after it is all cool!), do some hammer-and-dolly work to 'finesse' the sheets back into flat.  Reattach clamp/chill blocks, do a few more small (SMALL!!) widely-spaced welds, let cool (completely), remove clamps/blocks and do some more hammer-and-dolly work, repeat over and over again until finished (your sanity or the work, whichever comes first).Small welds (length), little welds (width), control the heat, flatten as you go along.Big welds (length or width) = big warpage.It's not easy or fast, that's for sure.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:have you ever tried to pulse with the foot petal? Some people won't agree with me but I press the pedal and back off, press on back off....it will keep the heat down and also it will help with keeping that color you want instead of the grey color. I always pulse manually with the foot pedal and it works. With thin gauge you will need to move around like what others have said. Thats just the way it is.Miller Dynasty 200Millermatic 211Instagram?.... find me @ WELD_MEDIC
Reply:OK, take a look at the first picture with the huge piece of aluminum channel on the bottom of the practice sheet.   Next I made a piece to go on top and have been using it for every practice weld.    I made another one with the slot the other way so my son can stand on it while I weld the counter top with the bigger piece underneath.The last set of pictures show no warpage, just the huge hole I blew in it trying to tack with no filler.   The pieces are still not smooth enough for me.     I have tried .030 Mig wire for filler.   It works OK, no filler works better if I get everything right.  I can not get everything right for 28" of weld for sure.Here is the piece I made a slot in.  I should have posted it earlier.With this piece and one under the sheet, I can put my hand on 1 inch of weld as soon as I am done.Waiting for a quote from the counter top people.Hoping I can get out of it all together. You folks are a lot of help and support.   I got a lot of good ideas from here and thank everyone.  More as things progress.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.you need a gas purge from the back. Pump argon down a  Chanel on the under side of the sheet it will prevent a lot of warping, and the color will be perfect. it is almost impossible to do this weld without a gas purge.
Reply:Originally Posted by gateheadyou need a gas purge from the back. Pump argon down a  Chanel on the under side of the sheet it will prevent a lot of warping, and the color will be perfect. it is almost impossible to do this weld without a gas purge.