airgas gold steel mix ??

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anybody know what there ratio is for gold steel mix nothing on my bottle and looked on there site with no luck ???350P 30A spool gun cut master 51  syncro 250 other stuff " take a dog off the street and make him prosper and he will not bite you sad the same cannot be said for man" i didnt use punctuation just to piss you off
Reply:Apparently you're referring to Airgas Steelmix.It's 90%  Argon, 10% CO2....IOW  it's a 90/10 mix.Works highly well in short arc for little to no splatter (with appropriate machine settings)and will spray nicely. It's a hotter gas than 75/25, reduces the voltage required by abouthalf compared to 75/25, which is an added benefit that many do not understand.I've only used it for 21 years.Blackbird
Reply:I don't know what umahunter's question is, but your answer speaksvolumes to me because I'm on the fringe of understanding heat-transfer through different gas mixtures.   THX  -  D.P.       Opus
Reply:The 75/25 argon/co2 mix is really common around here, but I haven't run across the 90/10.  The way you describe it maybe we should look around for some.  What are the drawbacks if any?Miller Syncrowave 350Millermatic 252/ 30A spoolgunMiller Bobcat 225g w/ 3545 spoolgunLincoln PowerArc4000Lincoln 175 Mig  Lincoln 135 Mig Everlast 250EX TigCentury ac/dc 230 amp stickVictor O/AHypertherm 1000 plasma
Reply:Originally Posted by DougAustinTXThe 75/25 argon/co2 mix is really common around here, but I haven't run across the 90/10.  The way you describe it maybe we should look around for some.  What are the drawbacks if any?
Reply:Dave, thanks for the info.  There is an Airgas near me, so I am going to get a bottle of 90/10 if they stock it (unless it only comes in the 330 cu ft rental bottles which are too heavy for me to handle)DougMiller Syncrowave 350Millermatic 252/ 30A spoolgunMiller Bobcat 225g w/ 3545 spoolgunLincoln PowerArc4000Lincoln 175 Mig  Lincoln 135 Mig Everlast 250EX TigCentury ac/dc 230 amp stickVictor O/AHypertherm 1000 plasma
Reply:I thought that the higher the CO2 % in a mix... the hotter/more penetration you could get. The drawback is, as said, a lot more splatter. I think that we use 85/15 here... from Praxair. Never tried to spray with it.Mikel
Reply:Dave,You're going to have to explain your comments to me.  Plus, I'd sure like to see the data to back up the claims.You say that 90/10 (Argon/CO2) runs hotter than 75/25(C25).  If that truly is the case (I don't think so), why is straight CO2 considered a much hotter shielding gas (abet with more spatter) than C25.  In fact, the CO2 is used with many of the smaller migs to increase the penetration capabilities of the machines.The comment about 90/10 "reducing the voltage requirements by about half" compared to C25 is bunk.  Please post up stats to support this claim.  Are you saying that people should take the door chart recommendations and reduce the V settings by half (same WFS) if they switch from C25 to C10.  REALLY???As you probably know, I mix my own gas mixes.  While I consider C10 to be a good "compromise" mix, it's not the best Argon/CO2 mix for spray (92%Argon/8%CO2 is better--98%Argon/2%O2 is even hotter), nor is it the better mix for short arc (C25 is a better all around mix).Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:FWIW: I'm in no way an expert in gas. But I used the Stargold gas from Praxair for a few years. Then one day while getting a bottle filled I mentioned to the guy I was doing a small project involving welding some 4130 to an existing frame made of mild steel. He asked me if I wanted to try their Stargon gas? He said it runs hotter. So I gave it a shot. Worked great on the 4130. Still having a full bottle of it left over, I decided to try it on my usual work involving mild steel 1 1/2" x .062 round tube. All I can say is wow! The bottle doesn't say what the mix is but I can tell you it is hotter. My welds have gone from good to unbelieveable. I always had a problem with the power taps on my Miller Challenger 172. It has just 4 taps and often I would find myself wishing I had a 1/2 step between 1-2 or 2-3, depending on what I was doing. This gas has solved that problem. This gas, for me, has been a huge evolution. Not sure how it compares with the gas you're talking about? I know their Stargold gas I was using before was a 75/25 mix even though he claimed it had a little something extra in it that made it better than the other welding shop guys offered? Probbably BS there? But the Stargon mix definately has something going on. I'll lay a bead and stand back looking at it, amazed that I made it. It's that good.Last edited by PedalTek; 05-31-2011 at 01:53 PM.
Reply:Probably the Stargon CS, 90% argon, 8% CO2 2% O2
Reply:I think Steelmix gold is 84Ar/16Co2, Steelmix-3 and Steelmix Extra are tri mixes (one of them prolly a close sister to Stargon, which is 90Ar/8Co2/2o2). They have StainMixes etc. etc.It should give better drive & cleaning in short circuit than 90/10 but would need more volts to spray, and it would put more smoke up in the room when you do spray.Are you happy with it? Short circuit, Spray? Thick or thin???Matt
Reply:Originally Posted by Matt_MaguireI think Steelmix gold is 84Ar/16Co2, Steelmix-3 and Steelmix Extra are tri mixes (one of them prolly a close sister to Stargon, which is 90Ar/8Co2/2o2). They have StainMixes etc. etc.It should give better drive & cleaning in short circuit than 90/10 but would need more volts to spray, and it would put more smoke up in the room when you do spray.Are you happy with it? Short circuit, Spray? Thick or thin???Matt
Reply:Dave,Got that info on the "supergas" yet?Could be a real boon to the 120v mig guys if they can get by on 1/2 voltage.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:talked to airgas its 84/16 thanks for the help 350P 30A spool gun cut master 51  syncro 250 other stuff " take a dog off the street and make him prosper and he will not bite you sad the same cannot be said for man" i didnt use punctuation just to piss you off
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIDave,Got that info on the "supergas" yet?Could be a real boon to the 120v mig guys if they can get by on 1/2 voltage.
Reply:Originally Posted by umahuntertalked to airgas its 84/16 thanks for the help
Reply:Originally Posted by dstevensYep, that's what they told me a while back.  Around here if you want small customer bottles of C25 from the neighborhood Airgas stores you have to either go to the fill plant north of town or have them bring one in.  They push the house branded mixes pretty aggressively.  When I got the TIG last week I also scored a nearly full bottle of Steelmix in the deal.
Reply:Originally Posted by dave powelsonWhen I got the TIG last week I also scored a nearly full bottle of Steelmix in the deal......uuummm....of course, you realize that Steelmix (or any AR/CO2 mix) won't work for squat with TIG? There's a sticky at the top of this page discussing/showing 'why?'--at great length.
Reply:Dave,It's not that I'm sitting back waiting to (in your words) "burn your azz".I just find it strange that a reasonably experienced guy, such as yourself, would make such a claim about any partcular gas mix "reducing the voltage required by 1/2".If you're "buying that", I've got a magnet for sale that attaches to your fuel line before the carburator.  It "doubles" your fuel milage.If you're not interested in that, I've got other snake oil for sale also.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I'm still a little confused with some of this (as I too don't believe that the less amount of CO2, the hotter the arc)....but, maybe it's not a 90/10 mix of Argo/CO2.  I was looking at a Welding supply place and the lower the CO2/higher the Argo, the less penetration....however, the supply place also has a 75/25 Argo/Heli mix which says hi heat and penetration.  Used for short arc & spray transfer.  I imagine something like that would enable the 120V welders to step it down.Then again, I'm a complete noob to all this stuff....so who knows  Last edited by BuckFever; 06-10-2011 at 06:09 AM.
Reply:It can be confusing Buck, I guess it's a bit like picking from a box full of tools to do a job thinking which is best...In my mind the Co2 being a poor conductor needs more power input to work, also all the burn off is done by the actual short circuit, where adding argon allows some heat transfer from the arc cone above the weld pool and washes the top out better.In any case, the more Co2 in the gas the more the fusion (penetration) profile starts to look like a sub-arc profile (like you pushed your finger into the joint). My opinion only, I am very fond of that finger shaped profile.I think a Ar/He mig mix would be very hot on the top giving a broad shallow fusion profile similar to how it works with tig.On the 90/10 - 84/16 thing, maybe Dave was thinking 1/2volt, like Co2 needs 20Volts, 75/25 needs 18 and 90/10 needs 17.5 to work well at a given wire speed. I keep the 90/10 for pulse and tried a time or two use it short circuit in a pinch but didn't like it at all. I was either out of parameter for section, not clean enough or something... but it didn't go well so I leave it alone.(edit) I should add that as the Co2 goes up so does the inclusion of oxides in the weld pool causing a reduction of properties (small reduction, but it's there). A pure Co2 hard wire weld will flash rust much faster because of all the iron oxides on the surface (better paint it fast).MattLast edited by Matt_Maguire; 06-10-2011 at 06:56 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Matt_MaguireOn the 90/10 - 84/16 thing, maybe Dave was thinking 1/2volt, like Co2 needs 20Volts, 75/25 needs 18 and 90/10 needs 17.5 to work well at a given wire speed.Matt
Reply:Originally Posted by BuckFeverSo taking what you said there (still trying to understand this), could it be concluded that with 90/10, one would accomplish the same penetration with a 110V machine that they could with 100% CO2 set at a higher voltage?  That would be completely Bass Ackwards of my knowledge of CO2 gas and it's properties to welding.  In this case, less is more?
Reply:Originally Posted by PedalTekI used the Stargold gas from Praxair for a few years....He asked me if I wanted to try their Stargon gas?...All I can say is wow! The bottle doesn't say what the mix is but I can tell you it is hotter. My welds have gone from good to unbelieveable....This gas, for me, has been a huge evolution....I know their Stargold gas I was using before was a 75/25 mix.
Reply:WOW!!!  Excellent association with the water hose.  That actually helps explain it a lot    Thanks.Originally Posted by BuckFeverI'm still a little confused with some of this (as I too don't believe that the less amount of CO2, the hotter the arc)....but, maybe it's not a 90/10 mix of Argo/CO2.  I was looking at a Welding supply place and the lower the CO2/higher the Argo, the less penetration....however, the supply place also has a 75/25 Argo/Heli mix which says hi heat and penetration.  Used for short arc & spray transfer.  I imagine something like that would enable the 120V welders to step it down.Then again, I'm a complete noob to all this stuff....so who knows