Bullet Hinges, Gate and ?'s

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I am finally ready to build and install gates at the ranchita.  I finished the 60 some posts in the ground with only the hole puncher on the tractor and a young fella to run the mixer.  Recently I saddle cut the posts for  top rail and welded in.  I tried 6010, and 7018 but finally liked 6011 the best.Now, With a little () help I have finished hanging  the last 750'  of RedBrand horse no climb fencing.  I did only about 5% of that task. There are 2 work/access gate openings 16'3" wide.  Each post  is 5 1/2" O.D. ~ 3/16"  thick and stand 5' tall. Each is buried  4' and filled with 6 80# sacks of concrete.  The gates themselves will be made of 2 3/8" O.D.  tubing which is a little less than 1/8" thick. Each gate will be approximately 16' long 54" high with three horizontal  pieces and 3 vewrtical.  A Hog panel will be used to fill the lower 4' opening. Pic is of a similar gate.  I will not round the top, I prefer it square.  The pipe I will use is larger  diameter than I can easily purchase... 1 7/8" vs. my 2 3/8" weight for a gate I estimate at about 150#. ?s   1.   I believe I would like to try bullet hinges.  My thoughts are to  stand off  the bullet hinge from the gate ~ 1-2"  and then weld the  the bullet hinge to the post.   The idea is to give the gate room to swing without interfering/hitting  the post.  But,  I would like the gate to open  over 90 degrees... maybe  to 135 degrees would be ok.  I've seen the bullet hinges but not sure exactly where you weld to (on the hinge itself)  and how to figure the offset so it clears well.  Also, which is stronger/better keep the hinge near the gate or near the post?  How much offset to swing clear? 2.   What size hinge... 1/2" to 3/4"  ~ overkill maybe a 3/4" diameter if I can get one?  3.  Put a heght adjustable wheel on the bottom of gate so I can adjust for time sags etc... ?  Once welded in there is no way to adjust the level of the gate over time? Ideas? Attached ImagesLast edited by PapaLion; 03-07-2012 at 05:34 PM.Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:Try something like this?  It's (I think) 1" Sched 40 inside of 1/12" (If I remember right).  was really easy & strong as hell.Buy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:You would be better off buying the block hinges with the grease zert in it and a bearing ball in it. The hinges shown above are super strong but there is too much friction in them and if they are not kept oiled, can be very hard to move.If you get a piece of your pipe, a piece of your gate tube and your hinge and set them down where you can look down on them you will see the proper hinge set off but I will go ahead and tell you. The pivot of the hinge should be dead center, the distance from your hinge post to pivot and the distance from your gate tube to pivot should each be larger than half the diameter of your tube to get over 90 degrees.To keep the gate from ever sagging, just think in terms of guying the post that the gate hangs on. Your top rail will guy it in one direction. Ninety degrees away from that you will need another post with a piece of pipe welded from it to your hinge post. With the hinge post guyed both ways your gate cannot ever sag whether closed or open.The first gate you can see the guy post that guys the hinge post in the open position. The fence guys it in the close position.The second picture you can see that the fence guys the post in the open direction and the over head guys it in the closed position.Hope some of this helps. Attached Images
Reply:Thanks Bob, I'm still absorbing your post... Do you have a closeup pic of a "block hinge" so I can see what I'm looking for.The radius made sense.  The sag I'm still thinking on.  I'll get a pic of an opening tomorrow which might help us draw a few lines/vectors so I get what U R saying. Nice gate... that lower one is a beautiful idea for the front gate.  My dream is an Alamo made up from two 8 footers... The East one will be mostly Texas plasma cut stuff with a sun coming up , the right one will be Arizona, cowboy sitting under  a moon maybe? These two I'm making first are the access to the shop area and the end gate at the pasture.  Not fancy, just H for stout will do nicely. I cut the  tubing  for the first one this morning.  Here's one from the net, looks right? Attached ImagesLast edited by PapaLion; 03-08-2012 at 06:24 PM.Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:I went up to the shop and took a picture of a gate I'm building right now. Not a great picture but you can get the jest of it. The second picture is of the box they come in.I never turn one pin up and the other down like some people do so you can't get the gate off. I put both pins up and weld a little tab to the gate under both hinges so no one can take it off easily. If some one ever hits the gate I can beat the tab down or cut it off and take the gate off to get it to the shop to fix it. That way I don't have to risk messing up the hinge cutting it off. There is a gate I have to do that too right now.The last picture shows it.I wouldn't do the double gate if you can keep from it. They are hard to get hung perfect to each other and can be the dickens in a wind to keep one open while you get the other open, unless you put a drop pin on both of them. If you ever decide to put an opener on the gate it will cost you for two. Attached Images
Reply:I used to put hinges on one up and one down to lock them on.  However, a couple on months ago while building a gate, I realized that doing that focused all the vertical weight on one hinge.  So, I adopted Bob's weld-on tab idea.
Reply:Thanks for those pics, I see it now and those are great.I have noticed that tab idea by observation just looking at gates for years.  Yes,  that'lll do nicely.  I'm going to search out those block hinges.  One of the stores will have them.   For the front  gate, (opening is 18' on that one). I figured 2 9's  then electric open one of them, not both.   That is mainly for my wife who will like using the clicker.  Also, lay a concrete square centered  at the  threshold so I can put two drop pins.  The problem here is probably not so much the wind but more likely keeping them cleaned out because of the fine sugar sand.   Wife "what ya' doing today?" Me "Well first I got to go vacuum the front gate."I forgot the camera, pics maybe today.Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:PapaLion, There are literally thousands of hinges like yours and fitted with a grease zerk they will service you the rest of your life.
Reply:Well they would have to work for  about a year according to my Docs  at best Scott?   sheesh... I'm kidding you, I am grateful that you guys who do this as a biz are willing to share your experience.   I really don't know what will last and work well but those seem to be the way to go.. and easy to weld on too    We planted the last 60 feet of fence posts today and will saddle cut in the top rail Monday and get her done.  Then it's just gates to go  Total length for this fence is about 1450 feet.  I built the first 350 totally on my own, next 300+ with one guy helping carry the posts and mixing concrete in the mixer for the posts. Next set of posts about 400' were a crew of three young guys and that one is the worst for straight, they just had no clue and it went too fast for me to  adjust.  Last 400+ was done with one good helper, looks the best and will be nicer.   I have learned a lot about fencing and really if I were young and tough I'd  think about it as  a biz.  I used a transit to set the height so it is very level.  More automation on carrying and cutting posts, , a real good crew who works well together and understands the routine, and  price the materials right is essential.  Building a  beautiful  gate like Bob crafts doesn't hurt a bit either.  forgot the camera again,  yup, head was attached and all, just left it on the table.Last edited by PapaLion; 03-10-2012 at 06:13 PM.Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:I did forget to mention one thing. I build most of my gates out of 2"x14 ga. sq. tube. I like the more massive and substantial look but keeping a lighter weight. If you notice in the picture of the welded hinge that the weld is very wide for just welding to 14 ga. tube. The idea is to get the weld as close to the side of the tube as possible to put more strain on the side of the tube instead of on the flat. A long time ago I built a gate with a smaller hinge and only welded to the flat. It tore out around the hinge in about a year as the strain was only on the flat part of the metal and not on the long sides. I've not had another problem since then.With 19' of gate opening and wanting an electric gate, you might want to go with a roller gate that opens rolling along the fence. The openers are only a little bit more then swing types and not too hard to put up. The reason I say this is that your wife will be driving through a 9' opening. My hard rule is if women are going to be driving through then the gate should be minimum 16'. It still isn't a gaurantee the gate won't get damaged but it's chances are better.
Reply:Thank you for the welding tip,  I will work toward the side for ther welds... I will not share your concerns for  wide gates and women... prudent surely, sunds like experience talking to me... but there are some things I just don't tell her for her own good.  A slide gate could be done at the front.   That is the last gate so I'll think upon it.Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:Bob, on the rolling gate...do you have make/model recommendations ?     Any grass operation which ever needed a custom baler to come in would need a little wider gate too.....Thanks....Weldandpower Lincoln 225 AC,DC with Briggs 16hp gas engine.WW2 era Miller TIG.
Reply:Originally Posted by GBMBob, on the rolling gate...do you have make/model recommendations ?     Any grass operation which ever needed a custom baler to come in would need a little wider gate too.....Thanks....
Reply:For PapaLion. I don't know how much pipe fence you build but I thought I would mention a few things that will make it look better, seeing as how it is your fence.I put my pipe 10' apart. The upset tubing I usually use is 31 feet long to just a little longer. I cut one of the threaded ends off and put it where it needs to go. You will have just enough room to cut the other end to fall over a post top. Doing it like this, you can hardly even see the splices and helps you make change of grade adjustments at the post instead of mid span.The welded wire panels are 20' long and you can make the splices to the posts instead of panel to panel. If you are putting the panels on the back of the posts (which you should) then no one will even see the splices.Last, be sure to cut rounds or buy caps so no rail or post will be left open.
Reply:I finally got a few pics today. Front gate opening, workgate opening,the 600'+  done mostly by me this year, several months since late Sept. working about 3-4 hours a day.4' high RedBrand Noclimb hung 5" down from the top rail on double strand via hog rings and ties on the posts,  and attached on bottom with barbed wire via hog rings. 3 guys worked to hang it.  Sometimes the top rails hit a post I use short collars.  Top rail I got is 22' or 28' long, posts are at 10'A hand cut saddle this morning using the 4" Makita with cutting disc.  I eyeballed it done about 150 by now.(Eyes, ears, nose, face all VERY protected this stuff is at eye height.) Attached ImagesLast edited by PapaLion; 03-13-2012 at 07:34 PM.Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:Here's a few on the gates. first one is on my big bench.  It will go onto the workgate opening 16'Last pic is a typical 6010 welded saddle.   MIG welds   ..030 + gas.  still not so good... sheesh.  Maybe it'll get better after the 5th or 6th gate, ya' theenk Senor?Paint for the fence ~ sand lightly and Rustoleum Red Rust Preventer Primer. After 3-4 years it wears a bit and still looks fine even with a little surface rust in places.  I figure to get 7-8 years on the paint.Where the goats will be gets two more runs of  4 point barbed wire,  One strand about 4" off the ground and the other about   18" inside. This keeps them off the fence totally.  I added that to some other areas last year, works great.   Pomegranate orchard will get a 4'   4x4 RedBrand Goat ffield fence done with end posts Tposts and double strand and  4 point barbed wire. I've never done a fence like this before.. the quote from a local shop got me real interested in learnng how real quick... now as I finish I know why Attached ImagesLast edited by PapaLion; 03-13-2012 at 07:37 PM.Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:The fence looks great, very neat. What is the white things on the fence every 4th post or so?That is going to be one heavy gate using that pipe. You can usually find tubing of that same size to build the gates out of so you don't have so much strain on your hinge posts. It will look the same but will weigh a lot less.It looks like you need to put in a guy post back in line with the gate when in the closed position. Other wise it will slowly pull the post over until the gate is on the ground. Is the gate going to have the same net fencing on it?
Reply:Also you might want to learn to cut your saddles with a torch. It's going to get expensive cutting them with discs. Get you one of them hinged metal templates to draw your saddles with. They work real well.
Reply:Originally Posted by BobI did forget to mention one thing. I build most of my gates out of 2"x14 ga. sq. tube. I like the more massive and substantial look but keeping a lighter weight. If you notice in the picture of the welded hinge that the weld is very wide for just welding to 14 ga. tube. The idea is to get the weld as close to the side of the tube as possible to put more strain on the side of the tube instead of on the flat. A long time ago I built a gate with a smaller hinge and only welded to the flat. It tore out around the hinge in about a year as the strain was only on the flat part of the metal and not on the long sides. I've not had another problem since then.With 19' of gate opening and wanting an electric gate, you might want to go with a roller gate that opens rolling along the fence. The openers are only a little bit more then swing types and not too hard to put up. The reason I say this is that your wife will be driving through a 9' opening. My hard rule is if women are going to be driving through then the gate should be minimum 16'. It still isn't a gaurantee the gate won't get damaged but it's chances are better.
Reply:I haven't decided totally what will be used for filler. I'm thinking hog wire panel cut down to 40" height.   This is irrigation pipe, pretty thinwall but not as light as the galvanized stuff.  I just don't want to do galvanized, I did a few small  gates with it and it was nasty, welding and smell etc... so I'm trying this.I could use the RedBrand net on the gates It would probably be lighter.   This is where I came in... big gates, heavy what hinge?   An adjustable height  wheel at the lbottom swing end is very easily done. The bottles hung on the fence are a county wide project to eradicate a little "no seeum". They can get nasty late summer swarming around your face.  Swatting at them is useless but it is the source of the famous ~Yuma Wave~.  As the citrus is plowed under things get a lot better. They love the shade and wet. I'lll get a weight on a piece of pipe and extrapolate and figure out what they will weigh.  ~ 62' of total pipe length  per gate roughly. 3x16 feet2 x 55"2x 12"1x 40" + panelLincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:Cold and windy yesterday and today. They closed the Fwy I-8 to San Diego for snow.  Saturday I got the first gate done, ready to power wire brush and paint.  You'd think it would be easier to prep the gate pieces first but actually once they are welded up it is heavy and the Makita makes short work of it. Saddle cuts take me  4 minutes each now with a  small jig I made up that matches the shape.   Welded up with the MIG using a  rotating motion and moving on... (I've read that MIG looks like TIG thread and by coinicidence this is moving that way.)  Much easier for me to do this "dimes" thing.  Hard skinned I can take some critique of that on strength etc. The gate pipe weighs in at 3#/foot. so 62 feet is 186# + the hog fence piece 40" x 16 feet is 28# and the gate latch is 5# so  altogether I'm right at 219-220 pounds.  Well progress anyways. We are very close to all the wire hung. Attached ImagesLincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools