Brake cleaner + heat = POISON!

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A word of warning for those who might contemplate using brake cleaner on metal before welding....http://www.brewracingframes.com/id75.htmScary stuff.
Reply:Already posted in Safetyhttp://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=32501
Reply:Thanks for posting again anyway.  I didn't see it in the safety forum and it was valuable info.
Reply:I did that once... Even if you blow it all out with an air gun, and a pre heat with a torch... it could still bite you. Luckily I was just sick for a day.Rusty
Reply:Ive done that a little not near as bad but i got kinda sick. Now i will stop and think more.
Reply:Bad enough you were exposed to posing gas. Not getting medical help makes you the Captain of the lunk heads. Waiting days in a worsening condition just because you’re macho and near killing yourself qualifies you as the King of the Lunk Heads.
Reply:I kept wondering what that horrible smell was....told the boss not to spray that stuff again while I was in the shop welding. We didnt weld near it but you could tell it had mixed in the air with the argon.AWS CWI/CWEASNT NDT Level 2 PT/MTAWS Certified Welder(aerospace)
Reply:Originally Posted by redcoupeI kept wondering what that horrible smell was....told the boss not to spray that stuff again while I was in the shop welding. We didnt weld near it but you could tell it had mixed in the air with the argon.
Reply:So that's whats wrong with me!! Did lots of "hot" work at a Midas shop in the early 90's. Cuttin / weldin exhaust, usually over a floor covered in brake clean, brake dust and brake fluid. Didn't know any better. Ahhh, the good ole days. I may not be the king Lunk head, but I'd say I'm a sortafried Lunk head. Shoulda read the MSDS.Don't let that iron in your lungs, turn to lead in your @$$!!!!
Reply:Would it be effective to kill mice inbetween joist? I have mice running up and down between the joist in my townhouse. We have NOT been able to find the entry point from outside. We DO not know where they are coming in from but, I do not want to rip appart the celing looking for them. Instead, was wondering if a 1/4 cup of brake cleaner in a fogging machine with a small 1/4 tube pierced in the sheet rock would kill the mice. The gas would creep in all the small spaces in between the joist and hopefully kill or drive them out. Also, would mothballs do the trick? I could heat mothballs in a container and hopefully the gas will drive them out.
Reply:Originally Posted by lortechWould it be effective to kill mice inbetween joist? .
Reply:Everything has to be so bloody idiot safe these days. Just get over it and use common sense whether you're crossing the road or welding. No need to be panicking.__________________________________________________  _I could not care less where anything is made. I don't fall for the myth that locally made is 'better'. If I think something is good value for ME, I'll buy it. That said, I do like European quality
Reply:Ya know, this is one topic that never bothers me when it keeps getting reposted. I don't care if I see a new one once a day. I use brake cleaner, and I weld. I'm glad I found this out before I ever used it on the something I was welding."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:x2 to what stickman said...
Reply:Originally Posted by lortechWould it be effective to kill mice inbetween joist? I have mice running up and down between the joist in my townhouse. We have NOT been able to find the entry point from outside. We DO not know where they are coming in from but, I do not want to rip appart the celing looking for them. Instead, was wondering if a 1/4 cup of brake cleaner in a fogging machine with a small 1/4 tube pierced in the sheet rock would kill the mice. The gas would creep in all the small spaces in between the joist and hopefully kill or drive them out. Also, would mothballs do the trick? I could heat mothballs in a container and hopefully the gas will drive them out.
Reply:Originally Posted by lortechWould it be effective to kill mice inbetween joist? I have mice running up and down between the joist in my townhouse. We have NOT been able to find the entry point from outside. We DO not know where they are coming in from but, I do not want to rip appart the celing looking for them. Instead, was wondering if a 1/4 cup of brake cleaner in a fogging machine with a small 1/4 tube pierced in the sheet rock would kill the mice. The gas would creep in all the small spaces in between the joist and hopefully kill or drive them out. Also, would mothballs do the trick? I could heat mothballs in a container and hopefully the gas will drive them out.
Reply:Originally Posted by lortechWould it be effective to kill mice inbetween joist? I have mice running up and down between the joist in my townhouse. We have NOT been able to find the entry point from outside. We DO not know where they are coming in from but, I do not want to rip appart the celing looking for them. Instead, was wondering if a 1/4 cup of brake cleaner in a fogging machine with a small 1/4 tube pierced in the sheet rock would kill the mice. The gas would creep in all the small spaces in between the joist and hopefully kill or drive them out. Also, would mothballs do the trick? I could heat mothballs in a container and hopefully the gas will drive them out.
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcYour post is a joke right?  Not even worth further comment.
Reply:What sucks is...... how customers bring in things to be welded, that have been cleaned with brake cleaner..... all the time!!!!I do believe it is Brake cleaner + heat + ARGON thoMiller Dynasty 700Miller 350P with Aluma-pro push-pullMiller 280 Dynasty with expansion card Dynasty 200 DXMigMax 215 Enuff power and hand tools to create one of anything..... but mass produce nothing!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterGet yourself a cat....zap!
Reply:get a snakeTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:As the last post here is about a year old I am posting my experience to bring it up to the top again. READ THIS FROM THE START, IT MAY SAVE YOU FROM SERIOUS DAMAGE TO YOUR HEALTH.I had to weld a crack in an aluminum hydraulic oil tank. I did not have any co2 so I called my welding supply and asked about using the argon/co2 mix I use for steel for purge gas and they thought it should be fine. I then cleaned the crack multiple times with brake kleen and compressed air, filled the tank with the argon/co2, then welded the crack with my spool gun  using my usual argon/helium mix. The smell was just terrible and burnt in my nose and throat, and I just could not believe a little hydraulic oil could smell that bad. Little did I know!! It of course was not the oil, but the reaction of the argon, heat and brake kleen. I opened up the shop and went outside for fresh air and unknowingly saved myself from worse damage than I got. In my case I believe I lost about 50% of my smelling ability, the only permanent damage I can tell. Sorry this is getting a little long, but please keep these facts about brake kleen and welding on your mind.SA 200 RED FACESA-200 BLACKFACEanother BLACKFACEMILLERMATIC 35SMILLER 251 W/SPOOLGUNMILLER AC/DC BUZZ BOX
Reply:i thought this only applied to the chlorinated product, with the danger being the chorine.  I am not sure they even sell it anymore. Although people may have it in their garage.
Reply:Originally Posted by blackbarti thought this only applied to the chlorinated product, with the danger being the chorine.  I am not sure they even sell it anymore. Although people may have it in their garage.
Reply:Doesn't make much sense that it would ever make a good brake cleaner to begin with.  If you pour a little chlorine into standard brake fluid it will ignite into flames in minutes.....oh, and don't do it, it puts out the same deadly fumes. You would think cleaning brake fluid soaked parts would burst into flames if you used it as directed.Argon has absolutely no role in any of the scenarios.  Argon is totally INERT!  It does not combine or react with anything.  That is why it is in the group of elements known as "Noble gases".  (Argon, Helium, Krypton, Neon, Radon, and Xenon).It is the heat, and heat alone that degrades chlorinated compounds to produce phosgene gas.
Reply:I only buy the non chlorinated brake cleaner. Nothing to worry about.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Originally Posted by blackbartDoesn't make much sense that it would ever make a good brake cleaner to begin with.  If you pour a little chlorine into standard brake fluid it will ignite into flames in minutes.....oh, and don't do it, it puts out the same deadly fumes. You would think cleaning brake fluid soaked parts would burst into flames if you used it as directed.
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerweldIt is the heat, and heat alone that degrades chlorinated compounds to produce phosgene gas.
Reply:RaptorDuner,  Go out to a area in the middle of no where and pour a little chlorox on brake fluid, then run away because the fumes will kill you.  The mix will burst into flames by itself in about a minute, still emitting deadly fumes, I mean kill you now, in two steps, fumes.  Not quite like smoke and steam.  It just baffles me those chemicals could ever allow to be mixed.  Now if someone would ever explain how water, which is composed of highly explosive hydrogen and an accelerator, (oxygen), when mixed puts out fire, that baffles me as well. Signed: A baffled fire chief with 30 years experience.
Reply:Phosgene gas can be produce by pouring chorinated compounds like brake cleaner or carbon tetrachloride (just 2 on a long list) onto a hot stove or an exhaust manifold.  How much of a role would UV radiation play there?And on the other hand, if UV were a factor, would it not also be unwise to use chorinated compounds in sunlight or under other sources of strong light?
Reply:Blackbart: Chemical compounds will never cease to amaze me such as table salt, sodium chloride. Pure sodium basically explodes in water and chlorine will kill you but put them together and it's great on most food.Millermatic 200Hobart Handler 120Victor O/A & Ramco BandsawLincoln 225 ACSnapOn AD HoodMiller XMT304/22AHypertherm Powermax 1650 G3Lincoln Idealarc DC600 w/Extreme 12 VSMiller Digital Elite "Joker"
Reply:It's because sodium and chlorine by themselves are very reactive since sodium wants to lose an electron and chlorine wants to gain an electron. But put them together and they share an electron pair and become stable.
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerweldPhosgene gas can be produce by pouring chorinated compounds like brake cleaner or carbon tetrachloride (just 2 on a long list) onto a hot stove or an exhaust manifold.  How much of a role would UV radiation play there?And on the other hand, if UV were a factor, would it not also be unwise to use chorinated compounds in sunlight or under other sources of strong light?
Reply:^ scratch what I just said lol. It's been a while since I took chemistry.Sodium gives chlorine it's extra electron which makes both elements stable ions which then forms an ionic bond and a stable compound.Instability makes things reactive, reactivity (in many cases) makes things dangerous.Last edited by CSXRT4; 11-03-2013 at 05:31 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by blackbartProbably.  I notice when you retract the cover on a chlorinated pool, there is a layer of gas a couple inches thick that will choke you out if you don't air it out for a while.