Shamrock Tiller arm

admin

The attached photos show a tiller arm made by Buck Algonquin in the mid 80's. It goes on a 17 foot Shamrock flats boat.  I bought this boat on the cheap from someone who obviously didn't care much for maintenance. I'm going to restore it. The tiller is badly corroded and needs replaced but is no longer available. It's cast but I don't know if it's iron or steel. I'm looking for someone who is willing to make one of these whether by casting or otherwise fabricating a new one. The worst wear is where the bolt goes through the tiller. I don't know if that can be repaired by welding or brazing washers on both sides of the break.I might be able to adapt a different tiller but would rather not. Since this is a flats boat there is very little room to work with and that's the reason this tiller has such a steep drop.. This tiller was made specifically for Shamrock and Shamrock is out of business now. I know I'm not competent to deal with this and I'm hoping someone out there will be willing to repair this one or preferably make a new one. Of course, if anybody knows where I can buy one I'd especially like to know that. Thanks Attached Images
Reply:My bet would be cast iron...Looks like it's time to put down the welder and build yourself a foundry furnace!  I bet some good master alloy aluminum from a transmission case would make a fine replacement.
Reply:I agree. If I can just find someone to do it. Or fabricate one.
Reply:I'm sure you could come up with a replacement made from chromoly using a heim joint instead of the ball joint.  That would probably be a safer bet than going cast aluminum, although I've been surprised by cast Al before.
Reply:Are you talking about this Shamrock Boats?http://www.shamrockboats.comWeb site is still up!Buck Algonquin web site is still up also:http://buckalgonquin.com/- MondoLast edited by Mondo; 03-19-2012 at 05:13 PM.Reason: Additional InfoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:I called Buck Algonquin. They made and supplied these tillers to Shamrock specifically for the 17. They haven't made one in more than twenty years and can't supply one.  The 9" drop is what makes this one unique.The Shamrock site is still up but the boats are no longer being produced. The folks that bought the Shamrock name, molds, etc moved to North Carolina and are building other boats. I believe there's still a link on the Shamrock site that will take you to their current models. I understand that you can still have one of the bigger Shamrocks custom built. I'd expect it to be cost prohibitive though.  The price of the various Shamrock models is what killed the brand in my opinion.  Super good boats but expensive as all get out. I believe the 17 is also the only straight inboard flats boat that was made.  Floats in 10" of water and has a full keel.The molds for the 17 footers are long gone as are all of the parts. I'm lucky enough to have two Shamrocks. One in great shape and this little one that needs a lot of TLC.
Reply:Hey HVW I got your PM.I'd start by taking that arm down to the local junk yard... my guess they can find something. I doubt Shamrock made these specific... my guess is they used some Ford or Chevy part that was readily available. The junkyard guys may be able to ID it by sight. I don't think I'd cast it from aluminum. Too easy to strip at the steering box. If this is a restoration I might be tempted to have it cast from steel or iron if a suitable replacement can't be found. Steering arms are often forged so cast alone may be a gamble. There are some really strong cast alloys out there so the foundry might know. If you decide to have it cast you'll need to build up the original part with putty and the foundry can cast from the original. My foundry guys only do aluminum but there is a place down the street that will do iron. One off parts are always $$.Could it be built up with silicon bronze?Argh... I looked at the photos again... I retract the silicon bronze idea.Last edited by forhire; 03-19-2012 at 05:39 PM.Reason: Looked at the photos
Reply:Thanks forhire. This goes on a boat. The tiller arm attaches to the rudder and pivots it as you turn the wheel. You probably know that though.  I wouldn't be able to find one around here for sure. I believe these actually were made for Shamrock by Buck Algonquin.The reason I thought you might be able to come up with a workable solution is your fabrication skills. This part does not have to be cast. I'd appreciate your given it some thought and let me know if you have any suggestions.
Reply:Is that top clamp area smooth, or does it have a toothed inner surface?  Are the walls of that area a cylinder or are they slightly coned shaped?I would think this would be a perfect 4130 Chromoly weld up project, something like the offroad guys do for a chassis suspension or steering strut.  It would be a fun CAD project to start with.  hvw, if you want help locally it always helps to include your location on your profile.
Reply:The top clamp is smooth bore. It just tightens onto the rudder shaft with a bolt. Two other bolts give it a "can't come loose"  security.  Somebody else had mentioned chromoly.  I live in Georgia by the way. If you have some specific ideas please clue me in.
Reply:How thick is it at the thickest point. I think you could lay it down on a peice of steel equal to the thickest point and trace around it. Cut it out and drill the holes in the apropriate places. A little mill work to clean it up and you are sailing again.
Reply:double postLast edited by hvw; 03-19-2012 at 08:18 PM.
Reply:Thanks Hardy. Are you equipped to do that? I can bring it to you. It's 2" at the widest point and that is where it slips over the rudder shaft. From there, the arm is 1 1/4 " and tapers down to 1" at the bottom of the drop.  I'm not necessarily looking for a duplicate. Just something that will work right.
Reply:I need to check with a friend that has a wire machine and see if he can burn it out on the wire machine. I can get to a mill with no problem. PM me and let me know where you are at. I think I can make you something that would work. Not sure what the cost would be.
Reply:Is there a key way in the upper attachment? Could this part be cut from plate and bent to shape? It would be quick to make if that was the case. Say 1/2" plate? Here's a quick render. Being that this isn't the high stress part I originally thought... you may be able to build it up after all and just re-bore the bottom mount hole rather than remaking everything.Here's quick 5 minute render. I guessed on the dimensions.  Attached Images
Reply:That would even be easier. Also a lot more simple than writing a program for the wire machine and waiting all day to let it run.
Reply:HVW where are you located?
Reply:Hey Topaz, I'm in middle Ga
Reply:Step  #1 : take chuck of steel and make hole in it (of appropriate diameter and in appropriate location).Step # 2 : take another chunk of steel and make holes of appropriate sizes and locations and make kerf slot for the clamping bolt to be able to 'pinch' the piece onto the mating shaft piece.Step # 3 : take piece of steel  and weld to pieces from Step #1 and Step #2 . 'Adjust' the fit/alignment as needed with BFH, vise, and/or hydraulic press.Or take one big piece of steel and make holes of the appropriate sizes and locations and make the kerf slot, and then bend into desired final shape (BFH, hot wrench, vise, hydraulic press, etc, etc)  Done.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Though more bluntly put than I would have, I agree with Moonrise.Always look at things like this as assembled pieces. You have a square and two rectangles. Steel bar stock. 4130 if you want to spend a bit more, but if think mild steel would work. Don't need a mill. Drill press would due fine. Cut the slot with a zip cut. Unless the space constraints are really snug, you probably don't need to do the tapering, just flat bar stock. if the stock at one end or both needs to be a bit thinner than the bar stock you get, shave a bit off with a grinder and a flap disk or a belt sander. If you use 1/2", it may be easier and more precise to do a kerf cut on the back side of the bend radii. This will allow you to bend the piece easier and more accurately. Cut in 3/8", leaving an 1/8th to bend( easy to do by hand in a vice). Then weld up the open side of the bend, filling the "V" up. Grind to look pretty, if you want. Repeat for the other bend. You'll need to hold the piece firm as you weld it to minimize it pulling out of shape. I'm gathering you don't weld or are new and being smart and not going beyond your abilities/ equipment( big points for this). I describe the  above so you can work with a local that can do it and make it cheaper than casting or bending in a hydraulic press.Just thinking out loud.   Originally Posted by MoonRiseStep  #1 : take chuck of steel and make hole in it (of appropriate diameter and in appropriate location).Step # 2 : take another chunk of steel and make holes of appropriate sizes and locations and make kerf slot for the clamping bolt to be able to 'pinch' the piece onto the mating shaft piece.Step # 3 : take piece of steel  and weld to pieces from Step #1 and Step #2 . 'Adjust' the fit/alignment as needed with BFH, vise, and/or hydraulic press.Or take one big piece of steel and make holes of the appropriate sizes and locations and make the kerf slot, and then bend into desired final shape (BFH, hot wrench, vise, hydraulic press, etc, etc)  Done.
Reply:You could look in the yellow pages and find a local machine shop.  The toughest part would be broaching the key slot if you didn't have a broach set or a mill.Dan
Reply:These tiller arms didn't have a keyway. Instead, the rudder shaft was put in place and a hole drilled into the top, half on the shaft side and half on the tiller side. The hole was threaded and a stainlrss bolt threaded in.