fcaw or stick on rusty farm and logging equipment

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i was looking on millers site and found this statement ,FCAW and Stick are equally suited to welding on dirty or rusted material and can be used in windy conditions.i had always thought stick was better.i have a miller mig,but use stick for about .25 and larger.will the flux core weld .50 to 1 inch as good as stick on rusty farm and logging equipment? what you all think?
Reply:Depends on how you want to take that statement - I don't believe that any consumable is "suited" to weld on dirty and rusty materials - Sounds like a recipe for disaster as some newcombers might take that to mean no clean-up or pre-weld preparation is required.FCAW is more than capable of welding up the thicknesses in question -  It is more dependant on the consumables that you are using, and the machine you are running it with.On identical materials, with identical tensile ratings on the consumables, both processes (When done correctly) will produce weldments of equal strength.Last edited by Black Wolf; 06-25-2011 at 03:33 AM.Later,Jason
Reply:Anyone who doesnt feel a consumable is 'suited' to weld dirty or rusted material hasnt spent a lot of time in the mud with broke stuff.When Miller made that statement, I dont think they had your likely level of rust/dirt/paint in mind. More like the rust a steel plate gets sitting in a yard and the dirt it gets from sandblasting etc.The only real advantage to FC is speed of metal deposition, at least in this kind of application. So it would depend on the kinds of repairs youre doing. Being able to fill a good gap quickly can be handy sometimes. However, any wire process relies on pretty finicky drives, rollers, liners etc, even well built ones. And you prob dont need any more things breaking. So I would stick with stick for the heavier stuff just on that.The above being said, one thing I see a lot of newbies do wrong is not realize how much easier 5 min with a wire wheel is going to make the whole job. Its certainly not necessary, esp on thicker material where you can burn through the gunk, but its always easier to weld clean steel. Even slightly cleaner steel means easier starts and easier welds. Its a choice you have to make job to job, but over time the 5 min spent cleaning starts looking better and better.
Reply:id rather carry plenty of lead than try to work with  a short mig gun
Reply:It doesn't get hashed over often, but "bang for your buck" you can get a lot more "push" or amp capability per dollar with a stick machine than a mig machine, not to mention more capability for your power source (a CV machine is just....a CV power source.  A CC machine can get attachments to make it more useful, besides stick, scratch-start tig, with a hf box normal tig, arc-air cutting, heck powcon even made a plasma-cutting attachment for your old stick welder!)As far as welding dirty/rusty metal, garbage in, garbage out.  Some alloys are certainly better suited to welding thru grime, oil, rust and paint, but if you don't do any surface prep....you have nobody to blame but yourself for your lousy weld.
Reply:Originally Posted by MickLAAnyone who doesnt feel a consumable is 'suited' to weld dirty or rusted material hasnt spent a lot of time in the mud with broke stuff.The above being said, one thing I see a lot of newbies do wrong is not realize how much easier 5 min with a wire wheel is going to make the whole job. Its certainly not necessary, esp on thicker material where you can burn through the gunk, but its always easier to weld clean steel. Even slightly cleaner steel means easier starts and easier welds. Its a choice you have to make job to job, but over time the 5 min spent cleaning starts looking better and better.
Reply:Yes it is always preferable to weld clean, freshly ground or milled steel surfaces.  On new construction in a shop this is almost always the case.However in the real world, making repairs on old machinery, you sometimes have to weld old, rusty, painted and pitted surfaces which you cannot make perfect, or access is limited and then stick is preferable.Stick is much more under the control of the weldor as he makes the weld, the machine does not change output while welding, except for the manipulation of the arc by the weldor..CV welders depend on the voltage the machine senses across the arc which is dependant on the voltage between the gun and the surface being welded, so rust, paint, pits and dirt can affect the welding process more than with stick and the fluctuations in output are not at the control of the weldor.That is why I would choose stick for those welds which must be made on less than perfectly prepared surfaces."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:I like stick because there are fewer moving parts - less things to break when I am already trying to fix something else.  I see myself kinking or pinching the mig leads making the wire feed jam, etc.  Stick machines seem to be cheaper and offer more kick for the dollar than the mig machines.Deposition rates don't matter as much to me - I don't make a living welding, I am trying to keep my tractors and stuff working.  Never tried mig, been told it is the cat's meow, but stick seems to work so well for me I just haven't bothered to spend the $$ to try mig.Hobart LX235Victor 250 Oxy-Acetylene Rig (welding and cutting)Bobcat 773F-350, 1999, 4x4, 16' 10K# trailerOutdoor Wood Burner - 10 cords/year
Reply:I'll take stick for burning through stuff you can't reach to clean very well. Paint and some loose scale comes off with a torch (nice trick from the Oxwelders handbook), and the deep dig of rods like 6011 can blow through a lot of krap. Turn it up and run it hot.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmallI'll take stick for burning through stuff you can't reach to clean very well. Paint and some loose scale comes off with a torch (nice trick from the Oxwelders handbook), and the deep dig of rods like 6011 can blow through a lot of krap. Turn it up and run it hot.
Reply:I am in agreement with pretty much all of the points made by the various posters - ( Including MickLA even though I ribbed him a little bit  ) but I am seeing a trend in all of the comments made.For lack of a better term, all the posts seem to be concentrating on a "Worst Case Scenario" of a tight, dirty, nasty location where a person cannot get in to prep, and you "Have" to get the job done.  In that case, I agree that SMAW and probably 6010/7018 will get you out of a jam, BUT the way I read it, that is not exactly what the OP was asking....will the flux core weld .50 to 1 inch as good as stick on rusty farm and logging equipment?
Reply:i sorry if i was too vague ,but everything is breakable on the farm and in the woods.never know what or where it will be.i had a old gas welder that i had been using for 30 years,it was wore out so i am going to replace it.i usually use 1/8 6011 or 7018 rods.at my shop i have a old millermatic 35 that i use for fabricating.i have a generator so i thought about just getting a small inverter {maxstar 150} to use with it.the reason for the post is i wanted to get a miller 211 with a spool gun and i was wondering if anyone was using fluxcore for a portable welder instead of a stick  .the only fluxcore i have owned and used is on little cricket welders.so i am asking if someone with fluxcore experience would recommend it for equipment ?
Reply:Originally Posted by cowski.so i am asking if someone with fluxcore experience would recommend it for equipment ?